SVT Gone?

[gagspa]

Maybe this is a repost, but it is the first I have heard of it.

Here is the article (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/classified/automotive/orl-nuts0206mar02,0,5611100.story?coll=orl-automotive-headlines)

[Sixpipes]

It figures. Ford doesn't need an SVT group if all they're doing is the Mustang. Sad, but true. Looks like Ford is being pushed into competing in the RWD V-8 car market only where they will continue do very well, but how long before the other performance options from GM and Chrysler grab the lion's share of the USA performance market. Chrysler is getting maximum exposure from the "Hemi" nostalgia (which is really only a marketing tool). And only the styling snafu from GM is kept the GTO from catching on big-time. :cool:

[tliss]

I blame it on the utter lameness of SVT since Coletti and Scarpello were pushed out the door. Ford is going the way of the tree-hugger and there is nothing we can do about it, unfortunately. It really sucks and just reassures me that the next vehicle I buy will not be a Ford.

Tom

[dboat]

Tom, I concur. That is why I am now orienting myself to keep the truck for a very "long" time..

Dana

[WA 2 FST]

but how long before the other performance options from GM and Chrysler grab the lion's share of the USA performance market. Chrysler is getting maximum exposure from the "Hemi" nostalgia (which is really only a marketing tool). And only the styling snafu from GM is kept the GTO from catching on big-time. :cool:

GM just announced they are killing the GTO. If it comes back as a redesign, it will be after 2010. I'm betting the CTS-V will be next.

Chrysler is the _only_ one in the performance game now if you're looking at a braod base of cars. While I think the Corvette is a great car, it does not appeal to the masses for a number of reasons, but the primary being a 2-seater, and that's all GM has left in its arsenal.

Where have all the performance 4-seaters gone? My prediction is that this new GT500 will last 2 years in production and be done. The Mustang GT does absolutely _nothing_ for me. Ho-hum.

I think one underlying factor in a lot of this is the increasingly tight regulations which are going to take effect within the next 5 years (if we get a liberal in office, it will be sooner than that and more stringent). The big push is alternative fuels for "transportation", as well as other energy saving (less oil-reliant) powerplants. Government and the general public see autos/trucks as "transportation". That leaves us hot-rodders on the outside looking in.

Hold onto your L, guys. :)

[SILVER2000SVT]

I have to think this is just part of the cycle that all the car companies do with special programs especially Ford. Before SVT came about there was SVO in the early 90's. One day there will be something else. It may be named SVT or something new. This sucks. I personally think it's a really bad move, but it's not like my opinion counts, and I'm a little biased.

With the automakers clinging to life at the moment, it looks like the industry is going to be going through some tough (lean) times in the next several years. At least the SVT name goes out on top and won't get dragged down with the rest of the company that we know happening.

[Tex Arcana]

I have to think this is just part of the cycle that all the car companies do with special programs especially Ford. Before SVT came about there was SVO in the early 90's. One day there will be something else. It may be named SVT or something new. This sucks. I personally think it's a really bad move, but it's not like my opinion counts, and I'm a little biased.

With the automakers clinging to life at the moment, it looks like the industry is going to be going through some tough (lean) times in the next several years. At least the SVT name goes out on top and won't get dragged down with the rest of the company that we know happening.

What's sad is that Ford had a gret idea with the "SVT" concept, taking ordinary cars and making them extraordinary--hell, it was so good that Chrysler stole it and called it "SRT" (previously PVO). :rolleyes:

Every car maker needs a halo vehicle, even if it's a *lineup* of them. SVT was able to make performance on the "cheap", and pass those savings on to the buyers. I think Tom is right in that Ford is about to enter a time of "non-performance", thinking that they can become American Toyota, but that ain't gonna happen. As soon as this down cycle corrects again, performance will come back, despite the EPA and anyone else trying to end the fun. Besides, ethanol is 110+ octane--imagine how much timing you can run using E85!!:d

[WA 2 FST]

As soon as this down cycle corrects again, performance will come back, despite the EPA and anyone else trying to end the fun. Besides, ethanol is 110+ octane--imagine how much timing you can run using E85!!:d

The problem is not that performance is going down or is not there. Look at all the cool powerplants out there!

Ford:
300+hp N/A 4.6 DOHC
390-450hp SC 4.6 DOHC
500hp SC 5.4 DOHC
300hp N/A 4.6 SOHC 3v

3 of the 4 will knock down 25mpg on the highway easily in a 3600lb vehicle with an appropriate OD gear.

GM:
400+ hp LS2 N/A 6.0 OHV
505+hp LS7 N/A 427ci OHV

Chrysler:
340-425hp Hemi 6.1 OHV
not to mention the stump puller 8.0 OHV 500+hp motors in the Viper and truck

The difference is Chrysler is willing to put these powerplants in just about every line of vehicle they have. This is what Ford aimed to do when they went to the #$%^ "mod motors" vs. the more common OHV pushrod motors. Ford said it would cut production costs and allow them to cut down on service costs as well. And to be fair, once they supercharged them, they made the power/tq that American enthusiasts crave.

But Ford and GM are cutting the vehicles that they are putting these awesome powerplants into b/c of reduced profits and as further cost-saving measures.

Bottom line is that its abhorrant mismanagement that has led to this. This isn't the late-70s, early-80s all over again. Performance is at an all-time high, and its being done with incredible efficiency. The bean counters ran Colletti out of town, and they have successfully killed SVT, too. GM had the same problems. No Camaro, no Trans AM, and now no GTO. Sure there are "plans" for them to bring those names back, but there are no guarantees. :( I'll believe it, when I see it. Look what happened to the Gen 3 Lightning. A pipe-dream and vaporware is what we got.

As I said before, I think the automakers _are_ getting a bit conservative due to the pending legislation that is sure to come in the near future... but there is no reason for them to quit building cars...if the cars were turning a healthy profit. SVT-type vehicles are indeed "halo" vehicles, and never turned a large enough profit.

[L8 APEX]

The govt standards in both emissions and crash/impact areas are a huge factor. My Ford GT customers told me 06 is the last year because the GT will not meet the 2007 impact/damage standards. It is rediculous I think it is less than $500 damage at 10mph or such...
Another thing is manufacturers have a minimum economy rating to meet across the entire production line. That is why GM brought Geo into the Chevy barn so they could build more gas hogs in the form of trucks and Camaros. I think they have to have an average of 25mpg economy average for all vehicles produced.
Chryslers toys are big time gas hogs I don't see how they are beating the curve.
It is a shame to see Ford hang it up. Especially after believing "Bill Ford" was a car enthusiast and loved the performance line like SVT. Of course I am sure they noticed that ever since 2001 they were Xplan and invoicing their SVT vehicles to dump them off lots. Warranty claims were also a large % of sales profits I bet.

[rickgig]

The problem is not that performance is going down or is not there. Look at all the cool powerplants out there!

GM:
400+ hp LS2 N/A 6.0 OHV
505+hp LS7 N/A 427ci OHV



Point...

Ford is struggling and is dropping market share. You can't do fancy stuff if you don't have the bucks to do it. I just hope Ford can turn it around before we all go out and buy something else.

Wes... I recently read an industry report that said Chevy is coming out with a limited production Vette a step up in HP over the Z06. Horsepower wars are alive and well!

Not only should we hang on to our L's... we might start looking for decent used ones to add to the stable.

[Tex Arcana]

The problem is not that performance is going down or is not there. Look at all the cool powerplants out there!

Ford:
300+hp N/A 4.6 DOHC
390-450hp SC 4.6 DOHC
500hp SC 5.4 DOHC
300hp N/A 4.6 SOHC 3v

3 of the 4 will knock down 25mpg on the highway easily in a 3600lb vehicle with an appropriate OD gear.

GM:
400+ hp LS2 N/A 6.0 OHV
505+hp LS7 N/A 427ci OHV

Chrysler:
340-425hp Hemi 6.1 OHV
not to mention the stump puller 8.0 OHV 500+hp motors in the Viper and truck

The difference is Chrysler is willing to put these powerplants in just about every line of vehicle they have. This is what Ford aimed to do when they went to the #$%^ "mod motors" vs. the more common OHV pushrod motors. Ford said it would cut production costs and allow them to cut down on service costs as well. And to be fair, once they supercharged them, they made the power/tq that American enthusiasts crave.

But Ford and GM are cutting the vehicles that they are putting these awesome powerplants into b/c of reduced profits and as further cost-saving measures.

Bottom line is that its abhorrant mismanagement that has led to this. This isn't the late-70s, early-80s all over again. Performance is at an all-time high, and its being done with incredible efficiency. The bean counters ran Colletti out of town, and they have successfully killed SVT, too. GM had the same problems. No Camaro, no Trans AM, and now no GTO. Sure there are "plans" for them to bring those names back, but there are no guarantees. :( I'll believe it, when I see it. Look what happened to the Gen 3 Lightning. A pipe-dream and vaporware is what we got.

As I said before, I think the automakers _are_ getting a bit conservative due to the pending legislation that is sure to come in the near future... but there is no reason for them to quit building cars...if the cars were turning a healthy profit. SVT-type vehicles are indeed "halo" vehicles, and never turned a large enough profit.


Thing is, you have to remember that all of those motors/vehicles have at least 2-3 year lead times, sometimes going 4-5 years in production planning. By the time they get to the point of no return, they just *can't* cancel a project and expect to get away with it. So they build 'em, choke 'em, and kill 'em as soon as they can, the damned beancounters; and blame the "failure" on the "pro-performance" suits.

Honestly enough, because of the legislation you mention, we'll see performance slide south for a while, because beancounters just can't understand that performance sells, they're too busy counting pimples to get it.

[L-Fever]

Has everyone but me have their SVT build certificate? I have been lazy and never requested mine until yesterday. I figured I better do this if the SVT program is going away. Here is the link if you need to get your build number and certifcate. I faxed my information to them yesterday. I hope it wasn't too late!:hammer:

http://www.svt.ford.com/contactUs.asp

[SILVER2000SVT]

Has everyone but me have their SVT build certificate?

I just did mine last week.

[Lyfisin]

I got mine mailed to me after I purchased the truck. In fact I have two of them. They have the same production number but different build dates.

[dboat]

I got mine mailed to me after I purchased the truck. In fact I have two of them. They have the same production number but different build dates.

:confused: :confused: How far different are the build dates? that seems strange..
Dana

[Tex Arcana]

Has everyone but me have their SVT build certificate? I have been lazy and never requested mine until yesterday. I figured I better do this if the SVT program is going away. Here is the link if you need to get your build number and certifcate. I faxed my information to them yesterday. I hope it wasn't too late!:hammer:

http://www.svt.ford.com/contactUs.asp

I've got mine... somewhere. Hell if I remember where, tho. Maybe I should get me a new one. :d

[Lyfisin]

I've got mine... somewhere. Hell if I remember where, tho.
Probably in that garage. :)


:confused: :confused: How far different are the build dates? that seems strange..
Just 4 days apart. One says 5/3/02 and the other is 5/7/2002. Other than those dates, they are identical. Since the years are different (02 vs 2002) it makes me think they had a different person sitting down in front of the 'puter for the second one.

I also just realized I got my truck at the end of August and the dealership claimed to have just gotten it in. That's almost a 4 month difference between the build date and the sold date. I too am a little :confused:.

[dboat]

Probably in that garage. :)


Just 4 days apart. One says 5/3/02 and the other is 5/7/2002. Other than those dates, they are identical. Since the years are different (02 vs 2002) it makes me think they had a different person sitting down in front of the 'puter for the second one.

I also just realized I got my truck at the end of August and the dealership claimed to have just gotten it in. That's almost a 4 month difference between the build date and the sold date. I too am a little :confused:.

I have mine in a picture frame in my office. But I am thinking that I just might ask for another to see if there is a difference and to have a backup.. But it is a bit questionable... hmmmmm

Dana

[98Cobra]

Probably in that garage. :)


Just 4 days apart. One says 5/3/02 and the other is 5/7/2002. Other than those dates, they are identical. Since the years are different (02 vs 2002) it makes me think they had a different person sitting down in front of the 'puter for the second one.

I also just realized I got my truck at the end of August and the dealership claimed to have just gotten it in. That's almost a 4 month difference between the build date and the sold date. I too am a little :confused:.

My build date and the date I acquired it are almost about 10 months apart. :eek:

[dboat]

My build date and the date I acquired it are almost about 10 months apart. :eek:

mine was about 3 months apart..
Dana

[my2002lightning]

My Ontario Assy. certificate date on the office-wall is 5/28/2002 and driver-side cylinder-head cover reads 5/15/2002.

I purchased the L on 2/27/03 with approx. 12 miles test-drive miles which I put on her.:)

Ronald

[L8 APEX]

Mine was about ten days built 3/12 and purchased 3/21. It was on the lot about 12 hours.

[Silver_2000]

Since I bought the 2004 in Dec of 2004
It had been around a while - Havent looked at the dates and dont have the certificate


Doug