Stock fuel pump issues

[L8 APEX]

I have had two customers in the last two weeks have stock pumps fail to keep up with mods. Both had ported blowers and about 50K miles one 03 and one 01. The 01 I installed a built motor and 60# injectors stage3 blower. I tuned it with 6 pulls starting at 10.6, then 11.1, 11.4, 11.6, final at 11.8 all the way to 120mph and 5400 in 3rd under full load. Then on the way back to the shop I left the wideband running and got on it a few times to double check everything. It started at 11.6 and proportionaly went up to 14.6-15 past 3000 rpm. I ran a fuel pressure test to double check my meter. It was showing 32 at idle and would jump to 46 at boost then as it made power the pressure would fall back down 42, 38, 35, 32... And the A/F would go through the roof if held open. This customer would have never known there was a problem until it damaged the engine.
The other customer came all the way from Abilene cussing his Diablo tuner for not being worth a crap. He was stock with a stage 3 Steig, SCT MAF and 6# lower. I data logged it with A/F and it was way lean. I maxed out the stock injectors and it would only hold until about half throttle and would lean to 14.1 or so under full duty cycle. So once again a fuel pressure test showed it was going to 48 for a second then creeping back down though not as badly to the low 40's. A stock Lightning should see 32 at idle and 52-55 under WOT. We look for a 20psi rise generally. So you guys pushing the edge with ported blowers and stuff. Watch those stock pumps.
I highly recommend a wide band in anything over tune and pulley combos. 4-500 bucks could save you thousands in engine damage.

[meogi26]

thanks for the help there Terry. Just wanted to let you know that I got the 255LPH pumps on the way and should be in by the end of the week. I posted on the SCT thread. Asking if my tune was good after I put the new pumps in? I am also going to get the A/F meter that I was telling you about. The next time I can get out of Abilene I want to take it over to the dyno to see what it's putting out.

[Bird]

My 01 would truly have been a mess if Terry hadn't left the WB on and checked it - that's why he's worth the money to have him work on things - he pays attention to the details. I had planned on getting 255's in the near future - they're now on the way and a FP guage is ordered also. Considering a WB soon also.

Bird

ps. my stock pumps only had 32k on them.

[meogi26]

I will have my wideband hooked up today along with hopefully the 255 fuel pumps. Terry do you think you would have time to tune it Friday? I might be able to get off to come down again. Thanks.

[L8 APEX]

I am two trucks behind right now, it will be a few days. You just need to learn how to datalog with your wideband and Xcal and you can do most of it for me..;)

[meogi26]

I can figure it out I am sure....eventually. Try not to work too hard. I will give you a call later to set up a time to dyno it. Thanks again.

[dboat]

I have had two customers in the last two weeks have stock pumps fail to keep up with mods. Both had ported blowers and about 50K miles one 03 and one 01. The 01 I installed a built motor and 60# injectors stage3 blower. I tuned it with 6 pulls starting at 10.6, then 11.1, 11.4, 11.6, final at 11.8 all the way to 120mph and 5400 in 3rd under full load. Then on the way back to the shop I left the wideband running and got on it a few times to double check everything. It started at 11.6 and proportionaly went up to 14.6-15 past 3000 rpm. I ran a fuel pressure test to double check my meter. It was showing 32 at idle and would jump to 46 at boost then as it made power the pressure would fall back down 42, 38, 35, 32... And the A/F would go through the roof if held open. This customer would have never known there was a problem until it damaged the engine.
The other customer came all the way from Abilene cussing his Diablo tuner for not being worth a crap. He was stock with a stage 3 Steig, SCT MAF and 6# lower. I data logged it with A/F and it was way lean. I maxed out the stock injectors and it would only hold until about half throttle and would lean to 14.1 or so under full duty cycle. So once again a fuel pressure test showed it was going to 48 for a second then creeping back down though not as badly to the low 40's. A stock Lightning should see 32 at idle and 52-55 under WOT. We look for a 20psi rise generally. So you guys pushing the edge with ported blowers and stuff. Watch those stock pumps.
I highly recommend a wide band in anything over tune and pulley combos. 4-500 bucks could save you thousands in engine damage.
Terry,
so would someone like myself need to upgrade their fuel pump?
Dana

[L8 APEX]

I hate to say upgrade them as some stock fuel pumps live healthy lives. The problem is you don't know they are not cutting it until it is too late most times. I would recommend a gauge that tells you the info you need, like fuel pressure or A/F.

[dboat]

I hate to say upgrade them as some stock fuel pumps live healthy lives. The problem is you don't know they are not cutting it until it is too late most times. I would recommend a gauge that tells you the info you need, like fuel pressure or A/F.

Thanks Terry.. looks like a trip to Texas might be in order in the near future.. but will have to have a few more mods done at the same time..

Dana

[ChronicReign]

Sorry for the newb question, but when you talk about a Wideband gauge are you talking about something like this?

http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=2581&sid=5

[BC Lightning]

nope, those air/fuel guages are just for a light show, here is what they are talking about:

http://www.widebandcommander.com/

http://trucks.aempower.com/product_electronics.asp

[SILVER2000SVT]

Sorry for the newb question, but when you talk about a Wideband gauge are you talking about something like this?

http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=2581&sid=5

That's not a wideband A/F, its just a simple A/F. Those things are useless, nothing more than a light show.

For something useful you need something like the AEM or the WBC:

http://www.widebandcommander.com/

[ChronicReign]

:( I feel my wallet getting lighter with every passing minute. Lol

[Mark #2]

That's not a wideband A/F, its just a simple A/F. Those things are useless, nothing more than a light show.

For something useful you need something like the AEM or the WBC:

http://www.widebandcommander.com/

This should be everyone's first modification.

[Bird]

Got my 255's installed today - 60 psi at WOT and this thing runs like a raped ape !!!!!!

Thanks again Terry !!!

Bird

[meogi26]

finally got the 255's along with the 60lb injectors and took it to the track after tuning it and getting my A/F just right with the help of my wideband. And after 4 passes and the A/F set at 11.5 I decided to spray the 50 shot and the motor didn't like that too much. It threw #1 rod actually breaking the wristpin from the piston and about 1" off of the crankshaft. I pulled the pan and there was pieces of the rod along with a couple rings from the piston. This sucks but I guess now I will have to spend the money for a built motor. Terry if you could get me a price for the stage 2 ported heads, cams, and shortblock. I would really appreciate it. I will give you a call later.

[PoorSvtman]

Damn that sucks....

[Lyfisin]

That's the same thing I was thinking. :(

[dboat]

Damn that sucks....


+1

[wesman]

finally got the 255's along with the 60lb injectors and took it to the track after tuning it and getting my A/F just right with the help of my wideband. And after 4 passes and the A/F set at 11.5 I decided to spray the 50 shot and the motor didn't like that too much. It threw #1 rod actually breaking the wristpin from the piston and about 1" off of the crankshaft. I pulled the pan and there was pieces of the rod along with a couple rings from the piston. This sucks but I guess now I will have to spend the money for a built motor. Terry if you could get me a price for the stage 2 ported heads, cams, and shortblock. I would really appreciate it. I will give you a call later.

:eek::eek::eek: That sucks

--wes

[meogi26]

yeah this sucks but atleast the motor will be alot stonger than before.

[L8 APEX]

I would ditch that fruity Zex system and use a more reliable and consistent conventional wet NX system. The one we installed two weeks ago made 635hp and 805ft lbs to the ground.

[meogi26]

what did the guy have that put the 635 down? I want to still be able to use the truck to pull my mustang. So I am not sure what all I can do to the motor and still be good. I would really like to be in the mid to low 7's in the 1/8th. What do you think Terry?

[L8 APEX]

Built shortblock and stage 2 heads, stage 3 cams, ported blower, long tubes, 60# injectors, SCT maf, IC spacer, C&L plenum and elbow, heat exchanger and whatever else you can buy. It did 510 or so on the street tune.

[meogi26]

hey Terry, once I get the new motor in would you be able to send me a tune to get it to your shop? and what is the recommended break in for the new motors?

[L8 APEX]

Sure, let me know when you are ready for us to build it:tu:

[Bird]

UPDATE - finally able to get some tuning time in yesterday after installing the new 255's a few weeks ago. As Terry had hinted, the A/F went a little richer and had a few WOT A/F highs and lows to clean up a little bit. Also cleaned up the idle and part throttle fuel and this truck is sweet. Didn't need to touch the rest of the Terry's tune as it was pretty much optimum. On the F-1's, anything above 1/3 throttle is pretty much wasted effort unless you like a smoke show. Really looking forward to getting this thing to the track again.

Thanks again Terry


Bird