? on rebuild kits

[umclightning]

I am new 2 the talon forums so b easy on me. I need help in choosing a rebuild kit for my truck my block has 80k miles dont have the money to buy a long block or even a short. So if anybody out their know anything please help me decide.

[Mark #2]

I am new 2 the talon forums so b easy on me. I need help in choosing a rebuild kit for my truck my block has 80k miles dont have the money to buy a long block or even a short. So if anybody out their know anything please help me decide.

What are you asking exactly, do you have a blown motor?

[umclightning]

What are you asking exactly, do you have a blown motor?

No its still together I just wanted peoples opinions on defferent kits out
thier thinking in buying one soon.

[Mark #2]

Why would you want to rebuild it?
What problem do you have?

[umclightning]

want to use nitrous and boost

[Mark #2]

want to use nitrous and boost

So go ahead and do it, many of us have on stock blocks for many years now, check the best 1/4 mile times and modifications, but eventually you will need a SB.
If you can't afford to play...then don't do it.;)

[umclightning]

If you can't afford to play...then don't do it.;)

Like I stated at the beginig I am new at this I tought this
site was to help people not give them smart remarks.

[Mark #2]

Like I stated at the beginig I am new at this I tought this
site was to help people not piss them off with smart remarks.:mad:

I'm not the smart ass/dick head on this site trust me, just trying to help as I have the fastest stock block here.

[True Blue Aggie]

He is not giving a smart remark. Just telling you how it is. ...

Rebuild kits can run from the lowest rebuild (which could be a rebuilt bottom end = pistons, rods, maybe a set of cams because the motor would be out of the truck) to the highest rebuild (aluminum block, heads, cams, rods, pistons, Kenne Bell supercharger, etc..) The lower is closer to $4,000 after labor costs, the higher starts running closer to $10,000 after labor costs..

Everyone else chime in and correct me if I am wrong.....:tu:

[umclightning]

I am not hear to get on anybodys bad side its just that
I have gone to many speed shops and they all tell me the same
cant juice on the stock block so sorry if I started on ur bad side
Mark.

[WA 2 FST]

Isaac,

I honestly don't believe Mark was being "smart" with you. Many of us can give you our educated opinions on what you should do, but in Mark's case he is truly one who has "been there, done that" when talking about how far you can take the stock shortblock. He's running low, low-11s (over 550rwhp) with his original engine, and he's been doing it for a long time now.

I think he's suggesting to just run what you have now. 80k miles isn't a problem, unless you know the engine is not healthy. If you have the money for a rebuild now, then you'll have the money for a rebuild later on when/if you need it.

If you're trying to build a 9-second truck, then you can't do that with a stock shortblock _or_ a budget rebuild. You have to step up the quality of the internals. That's just a fact; its not being rude or inconsiderate with regards to your question.

In all fairness, I cannot suggest a "rebuild kit" b/c I haven't researched it. For a stock rebuild, FRPP or a Ford dealer might be a good source.

[umclightning]

He is not giving a smart remark. Just telling you how it is. ...

Rebuild kits can run from the lowest rebuild (which could be a rebuilt bottom end = pistons, rods, maybe a set of cams because the motor would be out of the truck) to the highest rebuild (aluminum block, heads, cams, rods, pistons, Kenne Bell supercharger, etc..) The lower is closer to $4,000 after labor costs, the higher starts running closer to $10,000 after labor costs..

Everyone else chime in and correct me if I am wrong.....:tu:

Sorry jumped the gun on the remark that is what I am looking for
do I need to buy a sb then I cant just rebuild the one that I have
have a friend that bought a 347 short block from dss and had problems
from the get go just have heard alot of bad things from sb.

[Mark #2]

I am not hear to get on anybodys bad side its just that
I have gone to many speed shops and they all tell me the same
cant juice on the stock block so sorry if I started on ur bad side
Mark.

No problemo, you can juice a stock block, just not a lot ~50 to 75ish.
You need a good tune(low timing) and race gas when you do it though.

[WA 2 FST]

He is not giving a smart remark. Just telling you how it is. ...

Rebuild kits can run from the lowest rebuild (which could be a rebuilt bottom end = pistons, rods, maybe a set of cams because the motor would be out of the truck) to the highest rebuild (aluminum block, heads, cams, rods, pistons, Kenne Bell supercharger, etc..) The lower is closer to $4,000 after labor costs, the higher starts running closer to $10,000 after labor costs..

Everyone else chime in and correct me if I am wrong.....:tu:

You're not wrong at all, but those are both "upgrade" rebuild scenarios. When I think of a typical "rebuild", I'm thinking rings, bearings, and balance the rotating assembly. The parts for this can't be that high, but its only worth something like this if you can rebuild the motor yourself. After all, if you're paying someone to build the motor for you, it is a wise move to upgrade the parts. You're paying out the arse for labor/machining anyway, so while its apart upgrading the parts is wise if one can afford it.

I was assuming that Isaac wanted to rebuild it to freshen it up more than anything. Obviously any aftermarket upgraded parts will increase the $$.

[WA 2 FST]

Sorry jumped the gun on the remark that is what I am looking for
do I need to buy a sb then I cant just rebuild the one that I have
have a friend that bought a 347 short block from dss and had problems
from the get go just have heard alot of bad things from sb.

Having raced 5.0 Mustangs for over a decade, I can tell you that DSS stinks. Sorry for your friend's misfortune.

[True Blue Aggie]

Issac,

What year is your truck? Any motor problems previous to the 80k mileage? Any reason at all that you would want to just re-build and not "upgrade"?

[umclightning]

I was assuming that Isaac wanted to rebuild it to freshen it up more than anything. Obviously any aftermarket upgraded parts will increase the $$.[/quote]

that is exactly what I am trying to do man I know it is not cheap but
but I guess I will have to up my budget just askig for prices and help

[tliss]

Here's info on the rebuild kit from some sources:

http://www.teamjdm.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=60

http://www.razorsedgemotorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_31_397&products_id=303

You're looking at $1700 in parts, not including labor to pull the motor, build and reinstall, if you want to get a kit. You can get a full built shortblock from JLP for ~$3300, but you'll need installation labor and labor to transfer the heads and put the accessories on. Bottom line, it is going to cost some jack if you are looking to build...plan on spending $5,000 easy, and probably more regardless of which route you take. If you do the building yourself, you could save, but that depends on your expertise. Guys who have researched this more than me chime in if I am off.

If you are looking to freshen up, you could use the same new crappy pistons and rods and save some green, but you'll end up with the same weak-ass bottom end we have now.

Tom

[umclightning]

Issac,

What year is your truck? Any motor problems previous to the 80k mileage? Any reason at all that you would want to just re-build and not "upgrade"?

It is a 2002, blew out a couple of spark plugs and coils and also raced
a same year truck with 16# of boost and he droped a rod.

[03LightningRocks]

I'm not the smart ass/dick head on this site trust me, just trying to help as I have the fastest stock block here.

Did I hear someone call for a smart ass/dick head?:evil

[Mark #2]

I have a built JDM SB with stock rebuilt heads(~$1K) and ARP head bolts on the stand for $4K(OBO) if anyone wants it, no cams.
Apparently my stock motor just won't blow;)

[Mark #2]

Did I hear someone call for a smart ass/dick head?:evil
Yes you did:rll:

[tliss]

I have a built JDM SB with stock rebuilt heads(~$1K) and ARP head bolts on the stand for $4K(OBO) if anyone wants it, no cams.
Apparently my stock motor just won't blow;)

And when it does it'll be grand...like popping your cherry for the first time...:d

Tom

[Mark #2]

And when it does it'll be grand...like popping your cherry for the first time...:d

Tom

Not really one is really great and the other is really bad.:D

[True Blue Aggie]

yet both are extremely messy....:vomit:

[Tex Arcana]

I'm not the smart ass/dick head on this site trust me, just trying to help as I have the fastest stock block here.
Yeah, that's MY job!! :d

[03LightningRocks]

Yeah, that's MY job!! :d

No Tex...you missread it. He said smart ass/dick head. You would be dumb ass/dick head;) .


:evil

[Tex Arcana]

No Tex...you missread it. He said smart ass/dick head. You would be dumb ass/dick head;) .


:evil

Compared to you I'm Stephen Hawking... :tongue:

[Alpine]

No Tex...you missread it. He said smart ass/dick head. You would be dumb ass/dick head;) .


:evil:rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: Now that is an instant classic!!

[wesman]

I'm not the smart ass/dick head on this site trust me, just trying to help as I have the fastest stock block here.

Yeah, that's Rocks...he'll chime in soon :throw:

Seriously, no need to rebuild the motor unless there is a problem. As much as labor will be plus parts to rebuild to factory specs, may as well get a short block.

Much better in the long run

--wes

[Tex Arcana]

:rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: :rll: Now that is an instant classic!!

Talk about being thrown under the bus... :(

[03LightningRocks]

Yeah, that's Rocks...he'll chime in soon :throw:

Seriously, no need to rebuild the motor unless there is a problem. As much as labor will be plus parts to rebuild to factory specs, may as well get a short block.

Much better in the long run

--wes


Meet Wes...he's a little slow on the uptake.:evil

[wesman]

Meet Wes...he's a little slow on the uptake.:evil

lol....after I posted it I realized there were two pages already :hammer:

I just figured I'd let it ride and hope no one noticed :D

--wes

[03LightningRocks]

lol....after I posted it I realized there were two pages already :hammer:

I just figured I'd let it ride and hope no one noticed :D

--wes

I almost let it go by...but then I realized an opportunity like this must be taken advantage of...:beer: .

[PUMP]

If you rephrase your question to "I want to be able to run ____ seconds in 1/4 mile and my stock block has 80K miles on it. What do I need to do to get there?", you probably will get more constructive answers.
You gave us your solution to the problem, instead of just stating your goal.

[PoorSvtman]

i pushed a 6lb lower, 2.8 upper and the other usual bolt ons for 115k miles then i lifted a head... Trip home from L fest was the end of that. lol

I also had shortie headers, highflow cats,and bassani cat back so that probly helped it breath a little bit....

[PUMP]

See the attached article from Kennebell
IMO it gives a great summary of what does and doesnot yield more horsepower.

[umclightning]

See the attached article from Kennebell
IMO it gives a great summary of what does and doesnot yield more horsepower.

thanks for the article pump it has alot of useful info.

[umclightning]

So 80k is still good to mod with no wories of it giving
with a safe tune. I have a 4# pulley I want to install
I currently have a 2.8 upper jlt cold air and magnaflow
cat back.

[03LightningRocks]

So 80k is still good to mod with no wories of it giving
with a safe tune. I have a 4# pulley I want to install
I currently have a 2.8 upper jlt cold air and magnaflow
cat back.

I don't know that I would say it doesn't have additional risks. 80k miles is getting up there. There is a risk associated with pushing the limits of design....even with a new motor. More miles equates to more risks.

[PoorSvtman]

What rocks said is also true.. Even tho when i took my motor apart all the main and rod bearings looked brand new. No funky wear or anything. Could still see the hatch marks very clearly... Not even a glob of sludge.. I was shocked at how clean and the condition of the parts...

I heard people a year or so ago when they rebuilt there motors that they had scores on the main and rod bearings and such.... Guess they got the motors right in 99:D


Its not cheap to play... Everytime you put another part on your truck to make it faster, more boost, changing fuel,timing, shift points,etc you have to think what happens if i shoot a rod out the side of the block. Do i have the money for a new block? Can i get to and from work,school?

I got damn lucky... I started pulling my motor apart when i didnt have a job, but i got a job at the same place my mom works so i car pull with her...

[umclightning]

The reason i want push it is b/c I am still under warranty have 5k more to go

[PoorSvtman]

The reason i want push it is b/c I am still under warranty have 5k more to go


you have already modded it... dont plan on warranty to pay for anything they will look at every bolt, spark plug, If you have a chip in it then your pretty much already screwed. Theres wax on the computer contacts from the factory.. you have to take the wax off to install a chip thats the first thing a dealership will look at... i wouldnt say your going to mod your L then expect warranty to pay up if anything breaks cause you will get your arse chewed out by many here lol.. I realy wouldnt go to any other forums saying that either they wont be as nice as the others here...

If your going to play the you have to pay... If you blow up why put in something stock again? go bigger and better...

[umclightning]

If your going to play the you have to pay... If you blow up why put in something stock again? go bigger and better...[/quote]
that is true but have done it before and is y i make the comment blew a plug with my setup I have now but thanks for the fyi wont make thecomment again not used to posting up in forums.

[PoorSvtman]

Its all good...

[03LightningRocks]

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/icon22.gif http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/icon22.gif http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/icon22.gif

[PoorSvtman]

confused or your shocked lol

[03LightningRocks]

confused or your shocked lol

Neither...LOL. Look at the smileys again. They are more of a WTF type smiley...maybe even a suspicious type look.

[PoorSvtman]

lol yea

[Tex Arcana]

Neither...LOL. Look at the smileys again. They are more of a WTF type smiley...maybe even a suspicious type look.
More like a nervous tic/about to go postal with a dull pickaxe look... :tongue:

[03LightningRocks]

More like a nervous tic/about to go postal with a dull pickaxe look... :tongue:

That's the perfect description of it. Let's go with this one.

[Tex Arcana]

That's the perfect description of it. Let's go with this one.
http://www.thenewsrocket.com/PZN2/Pic2May/Axe.jpg

[Shiner1]

I say run your juice and up the poundage!!!. If you blow it you have an excuse for new block. I was spraying a 125 shot on a #4 with a stock block. I had a good tune and maintained the machinery to what I thought was a good standard. I never had a problem with my set-up but I was always prepared to rebuild if needed. I would say that you should stay under 500hp on the stock block with a good tune and you would probably be OK for a while but it's a machine and sooner or later.....boom. My philosophy (sp) was......I'm going to have fun while it lasts and then I'll build it right. Good luck

P.S. This place would be no fun without Smart/Dumb Asses, Dick Heads, Ronald, Tex and Rocks.