2001+ fender hole

[Mark #2]

Can someone take a scale picture of a 2001+ intake fender opening?

Put a 6 inch scale in the picture please from the center of the nub hole that plugs into the fender to hold the boot to the opposite diagonal of the big opening.

Thanks, trying to fit a stock 2001+ intake to a 2000 opening.
Did they change the nub position or just the hole size.
May ask for more dimensions;)

This is a CAI experiment for high boost guys to see if CAI is bogus or cool air is better.

[Silver_2000]

Here you go

2004 fender opening

The actual hole is 4.5 inches across

Best I could do in the dark leaning over the fender one handed

[my2002lightning]

Very same 4.5" opening on an '02 L.

Ronald

[Mark #2]

Here you go

2004 fender opening

The actual hole is 4.5 inches across

Best I could do in the dark leaning over the fender one handed

Thanks, I will compare to the 2000 tonight.

[Mark #2]

Is it a circle or an oval?
If it is an oval what are the x-y dimensions or the equation if you are so inclined?
Doug, do you still have my favorite tool, if so maybe a lease/purchase plan for me.

[Silver_2000]

Is it a circle or an oval?
If it is an oval what are the x-y dimensions or the equation if you are so inclined?
Doug, do you still have my favorite tool, if so maybe a lease/purchase plan for me.

I have the tool - JDM was interested but you know how that goes - if you are interested maybe we can work something out - Need the $ for vacation

The hole is niether round nor oval but closer to oval - it would be possible to draw it if I pulled the airbox but the truck is about 200 degrees and the garage is about 140 so thats not happening - the bottom of the oval is flatter and rounder at the top ..

the widest X dimension is 4.5 as mentioned the y is closer to 3.75

The rubber boot that covers it is 5.25 x 6.25 at the largest

[Mark #2]

I have the tool - JDM was interested but you know how that goes - if you are interested maybe we can work something out - Need the $ for vacation

The hole is neither round nor oval but closer to oval - it would be possible to draw it if I pulled the airbox but the truck is about 200 degrees and the garage is about 140 so thats not happening - the bottom of the oval is flatter and rounder at the top ..

the widest X dimension is 4.5 as mentioned the y is closer to 3.75

The rubber boot that covers it is 5.25 x 6.25 at the largest

Thanks again, I will make a template from the air box boot as that sounds about the same as the hole in your description.

Or am I just high for considering going back to a stock box, all opinions welcome.

[dboat]

Thanks again, I will make a template from the air box boot as that sounds about the same as the hole in your description.

Or am I just high for considering going back to a stock box, all opinions welcome.

ok, you're high..

Dana

[Mark #2]

ok, you're high..

Dana
I expected that response, but in my best engineering Cuba Gooding Jr voice:
"SHOW ME THE DATA"
"SHOW ME.... THE DATA"
"SHOW ME..........THE DATA":d

[dboat]

I expected that response, but in my best engineering Cuba Gooding Jr voice:
"SHOW ME THE DATA"
"SHOW ME.... THE DATA"
"SHOW ME..........THE DATA":d


Tell ya what.. why dont you and the SO take the free tickets to F1 I am offering and come on up? heck, we'll even spring for a couple of meals...
Dana

[Mark #2]

Tell ya what.. why dont you and the SO take the free tickets to F1 I am offering and come on up? heck, we'll even spring for a couple of meals...
Dana

Wow, thanks for the offer, without me searching, what are the dates?

[L8 APEX]

When I was data logging my setup back in the day I remembered this. 12" open filter element. I took the data on a 50 degree night. Sitting still it would read warm air I don't rememeber exactly. But as soon as I started moving it dove to within 2 degrees of ambient at 52' at normal speeds. After that test I never worried about enclosing the filter again.

[Silver_2000]

When I was data logging my setup back in the day I remembered this. 12" open filter element. I took the data on a 50 degree night. Sitting still it would read warm air I don't rememeber exactly. But as soon as I started moving it dove to within 2 degrees of ambient at 52' at normal speeds. After that test I never worried about enclosing the filter again.

I found similar results in an informal test I did right after getting the NGS scanner - As long as you were moving the temp delta to ambient was tiny airbox or no airbox.. The question that Mark is asking is will the stock box flow enough air.. Then IF it does why not get the advantage of the cool aior from the fender

Since my truck is stock ( 4lb pulley and Xcal ) Im still using the stock airbox

[dboat]

Wow, thanks for the offer, without me searching, what are the dates?

the race is July2nd.. you could go online and get qualifying tickets for July 1st. I think qualifying now is great.. I would also definitely get a parking pass, unless you want to ride to the race with the wife and I.. may not be convenient to where you are seating, but its only a walk.. have to say the crowd for these events are like no other.. the face value of the tickets is $85 each..
Dana

[PUMP]

Thanks again, I will make a template from the air box boot as that sounds about the same as the hole in your description.

Or am I just high for considering going back to a stock box, all opinions welcome.

I was using a 9" MAC CAI, and the intake always logged 10 to 25 degrees above ambient until I was up to +-30mph. I switched back to stock filter box and opened up the fender intake area as well as the stock box opening. With a 4# pully it gets cooler air at take off and seems somewhat quiker when the temps are hotter like today. I took a few pictures of the setup

[PUMP]

Some more pics.

[Tex Arcana]

I expected that response, but in my best engineering Cuba Gooding Jr voice:
"SHOW ME THE DATA"
"SHOW ME.... THE DATA"
"SHOW ME..........THE DATA":d

Okay, how 'bout this:

Minimum area of a stock filter: about 80 square inches; filter paper area about 600 sq in.

Minimum area of a 12" open cone: about 120 sq in; filter media area about 1000 sq in.

I think that says it all right there.

Also, FWIW: I find the same data as Doug and Terry, with Ronald's Autotap: with the stock airbox in place, on a June evening (last year), with a K&N filter, I was seeing IAT1 temps in the mid to high 90's, and they were NOT going down as I was driving. With the open filter and similar conditions, IAT1 did drop much faster. Of course, since I have a BLACK truck, that might've been the source of the extra heat in the fenderwell; but I've heard it said that silver trucks actually absorb heat more than black ones do, but that's hearsay. :d

If you're very concerned about underhood heat, I would consider either an airbox for the cone filter that ducts cool air from both the fender and elsewhere; or put in a hood with an open duct for cool air; or put on a hood with heat extractor vents. I think the second one is a better (and cheaper) solution, tho. :tu:

[Mark #2]

Okay, how 'bout this:

Minimum area of a stock filter: about 80 square inches; filter paper area about 600 sq in.

Minimum area of a 12" open cone: about 120 sq in; filter media area about 1000 sq in.

I think that says it all right there.

Also, FWIW: I find the same data as Doug and Terry, with Ronald's Autotap: with the stock airbox in place, on a June evening (last year), with a K&N filter, I was seeing IAT1 temps in the mid to high 90's, and they were NOT going down as I was driving. With the open filter and similar conditions, IAT1 did drop much faster. Of course, since I have a BLACK truck, that might've been the source of the extra heat in the fenderwell; but I've heard it said that silver trucks actually absorb heat more than black ones do, but that's hearsay. :d

If you're very concerned about underhood heat, I would consider either an airbox for the cone filter that ducts cool air from both the fender and elsewhere; or put in a hood with an open duct for cool air; or put on a hood with heat extractor vents. I think the second one is a better (and cheaper) solution, tho. :tu:

Okay how about this:
DATA:
Truck sitting off in the parking garage before going home.
IAT 120 IAT2 146

Drive about a 1/2 mile to get off site
IAT 118 IAT2 135

Drive 4 miles to the beer store 0 to 50 mph
IAT 118 IAT2 135

Sit at the red light
IAT 150 IAT2 140

So 30 to 60 degrees above ambient on IAT temps with an open filter.

[dboat]

Okay how about this:
DATA:
Truck sitting off in the parking garage before going home.
IAT 120 IAT2 146

Drive about a 1/2 mile to get off site
IAT 118 IAT2 135

Drive 4 miles to the beer store 0 to 50 mph
IAT 118 IAT2 135

Sit at the red light
IAT 150 IAT2 140

So 30 to 60 degrees above ambient on IAT temps with an open filter.

true dat, but only at a standstill.. seems to me that when you are moving, there isnt a real difference.. or am I wrong on this one?
Dana

[Mark #2]

true dat, but only at a standstill.. seems to me that when you are moving, there isnt a real difference.. or am I wrong on this one?
Dana
Moving there is a 30 degree difference to ambient. 90 to 118.

[dboat]

Moving there is a 30 degree difference to ambient. 90 to 118.

but you are wanting to see the difference between open filter and stock airbox, right? want to bet there isnt much?
although, I wouldnt have guessed that the warmth would have been that much..

Dana

[Mark #2]

but you are wanting to see the difference between open filter and stock airbox, right? want to bet there isnt much?
although, I wouldnt have guessed that the warmth would have been that much..

Dana

Yup, willing to bet, but I have to work on some other things first, waiting for the truck to cool.;)

[dboat]

Yup, willing to bet, but I have to work on some other things first, waiting for the truck to cool.;)

We know you have a "cool" truck.. maybe you should do that up here in our 70 degree weather..

Dana

[Mark #2]

We know you have a "cool" truck.. maybe you should do that up here in our 70 degree weather..

Dana
Nope been there done that for my education in Philly, walked through snow/slush to the airport, came for my interview in Texas and it was 70 degrees, got an offer, so I stayed.:beer:

[Tex Arcana]

Okay how about this:
DATA:
Truck sitting off in the parking garage before going home.
IAT 120 IAT2 146

Drive about a 1/2 mile to get off site
IAT 118 IAT2 135

Drive 4 miles to the beer store 0 to 50 mph
IAT 118 IAT2 135

Sit at the red light
IAT 150 IAT2 140

So 30 to 60 degrees above ambient on IAT temps with an open filter.


Interesting, think I need to recheck my datalogs. :(

[my2002lightning]

I'm no racer, nor engineer, but has anyone thought of re-routing their AC ducts to the air-box on HIGH with some sort of water collection catch system for the track? Constant cold air.

Too, the whole A/C parasitic drag factor could possibly be elimated by a bed-mounted electric A/C unit with constant cold-air routed to the air-box.

Just a thought.;)

Ronald

[Silver_2000]

Mark

Im still running stock intake and I also have headers so it would be similar test to see if closed airbox helps and how much ...

Doug

[Silver_2000]

Bring the scanner to Redline - Im goingto try to make it

We can do some side by side compares of closed air box data and open

Doug

[Mark #2]

Bring the scanner to Redline - Im goingto try to make it

We can do some side by side compares of closed air box data and open

Doug

Okay will do.
OT, finished re-torquing all header and collector bolts.
All were tight and are not leaking.

[True Blue Aggie]

When are you kids going out there? Friday night?

[Silver_2000]

When are you kids going out there? Friday night?

yes there is another thread about it
Grudge match between Mark and Sixpipes

[Mark #2]

Okay how about this:
DATA:
87 degree ambient
AC on Max cool

Drive 4 miles to the beer store 0 to 50 mph
IAT 118 IAT2 135

Sit at the red light
IAT 150 IAT2 140

So 30 to 60 degrees above ambient on IAT temps with an open filter.

Took the radiator cover off.
97 degree ambient
On the same drive home AC on max cool.

IAT 107 IAT2 117

Sit at same red light
IAT 120 IAT2 125
Considerably cooler at 10 degree higher ambient.
I don't pretend to understand, but I can certainly make something up.
Just presenting the data FYI.

[Silver_2000]

woudlnt the rad cover help force the fan air through the radiator ?

[Mark #2]

woudlnt the rad cover help force the fan air through the radiator ?
Yes, but I didn't see a change in water temp.
The cooling system has plenty of capacity apparently.
And I don't recall seeing a thread on overheating issue on a L.

[Silver_2000]

so less air is heated by the rad ? and perhaps that resulted in lower under hood temps ? or maybe air coming up thru the removed cover forced more air down past the headers and kept header heat away

[Mark #2]

so less air is heated by the rad ? and perhaps that resulted in lower under hood temps ? or maybe air coming up thru the removed cover forced more air down past the headers and kept header heat away

I think both are true, but the second is dominating IMHO.
I can actually tell a difference when parking in the garage, not near as hot and the headers aren't "cracking" on cool down as they usually do.
I'm going to pull the rear hood seal and see what effect that has tomorrow.
Very mini cowl hood?

[Tex Arcana]

I think both are true, but the second is dominating IMHO.
I can actually tell a difference when parking in the garage, not near as hot and the headers aren't "cracking" on cool down as they usually do.
I'm going to pull the rear hood seal and see what effect that has tomorrow.
Very mini cowl hood?

At first blush, that should help evacuate underhood heat, but with the base of the windshield being a high-pressure area, it might try to force some back in. Of course, the back edge of the hood is s good way away from the actual base of the windshield, so perhaps the high-pressure area may not affect it. Worth a try, tho maybe you might want to jack with the hinges a bit to get a decent sized gap back there, say over 1/2".

[Mark #2]

At first blush, that should help evacuate underhood heat, but with the base of the windshield being a high-pressure area, it might try to force some back in. Of course, the back edge of the hood is s good way away from the actual base of the windshield, so perhaps the high-pressure area may not affect it. Worth a try, tho maybe you might want to jack with the hinges a bit to get a decent sized gap back there, say over 1/2".

I doubt any pressure is building at around town speeds, and at higher that it would force more air over intake and the headers.
I'm just playing around, now that I have a data source.
Engineer with data collection is dangerous.;)

[Tex Arcana]

I doubt any pressure is building at around town speeds, and at higher that it would force more air over intake and the headers.
I'm just playing around, now that I have a data source.
Engineer with data collection is dangerous.;)

You should put some flow sensors in the places where you want to see what it's doing. Simple thing, tho, would be some lengths of yarn inside the engine bay, placed where if the flow goes out the gap, they show up. :tu:

Note that Ford put active heat extractors on the hood of the GT500... and they say they *had* to do that.

[tiffo60]

ive seen a thread on either nloc or ford truck world, but the guy raised up the back of the hood seems like 1/4 to 1/2inch and taped yarn to it and at highway speeds it sucked the yarn into the engine bay

[Tex Arcana]

ive seen a thread on either nloc or ford truck world, but the guy raised up the back of the hood seems like 1/4 to 1/2inch and taped yarn to it and at highway speeds it sucked the yarn into the engine bay

Sounds like the high-pressure area is much more prevalent back there. Mark will also need to tape a couple inside the engine compartment, a few inches forward of the back edge of the hood, to be sure that's hapening.

[Mark #2]

Took the radiator cover off.
97 degree ambient
On the same drive home AC on max cool.

IAT 107 IAT2 117

Sit at same red light
IAT 120 IAT2 125
Considerably cooler at 10 degree higher ambient.
I don't pretend to understand, but I can certainly make something up.
Just presenting the data FYI.

Just some more data
Took the radiator cover and rear hood seal off.
97 degree ambient
On the same drive home AC on max cool.

IAT 110 IAT2 128

Sit at same red light
IAT 124 IAT2 130
Hotter with the rear seal out and headers back to "cracking".
Air went out the back of the hood and not over the headers IMHO.
Putting the seal back in and will repeat tomorrow.

[Mark #2]

yes there is another thread about it
Grudge match between Mark and Sixpipes

FYI, the grudge match is OFF for tomorrow at Redline, we both have better things to do than try to prove our manhood, or maybe prove it other ways?:beer:

[Silver_2000]

FYI, the grudge match is OFF for tomorrow at Redline, we both have better things to do than try to prove our manhood, or maybe prove it other ways?:beer:

Thats too bad - Im glad you told me though..

Ill be spending another goergeous afternoon on the lake
They are now fumigating the entire buidling .. What a joke ...
Anyone have the afternoon off and want to join me just let me know

Doug

[Tex Arcana]

Thats too bad - Im glad you told me though..

Ill be spending another goergeous afternoon on the lake
They are now fumigating the entire buidling .. What a joke ...
Anyone have the afternoon off and want to join me just let me know

Doug

Fumigating?? :confused:

[Tex Arcana]

Just some more data
Took the radiator cover and rear hood seal off.
97 degree ambient
On the same drive home AC on max cool.

IAT 110 IAT2 128

Sit at same red light
IAT 124 IAT2 130
Hotter with the rear seal out and headers back to "cracking".
Air went out the back of the hood and not over the headers IMHO.
Putting the seal back in and will repeat tomorrow.


you might want to do the yarn idea we suggested, just to make sure.

fake edit: this is your earlier data:

Originally Posted by Mark #2
Okay how about this:
DATA:
87 degree ambient
AC on Max cool

Drive 4 miles to the beer store 0 to 50 mph
IAT 118 IAT2 135

Sit at the red light
IAT 150 IAT2 140

So 30 to 60 degrees above ambient on IAT temps with an open filter.

Took the radiator cover off.
97 degree ambient
On the same drive home AC on max cool.

IAT 107 IAT2 117

Sit at same red light
IAT 120 IAT2 125
Considerably cooler at 10 degree higher ambient.
I don't pretend to understand, but I can certainly make something up.
Just presenting the data FYI.

One question: are you running an open filter, or the stock box/fender hole?

Biggest reason for the radiator cover is to prevent hot air from recirculating onto the rad as fanwash. This will be an issue if you sit in traffic alot, and DO NOT trust that stock temp sensor, it's not even close to sensitive enough to tell you. And I'm beginning to wonder about that aftermarket temp gauge, it should move up and down depending on what you're doing, and creeping up a bit while sitting. BTW, do you have the stock fan or an electric?

[Mark #2]

you might want to do the yarn idea we suggested, just to make sure.

fake edit: this is your earlier data:


One question: are you running an open filter, or the stock box/fender hole?

Biggest reason for the radiator cover is to prevent hot air from recirculating onto the rad as fanwash. This will be an issue if you sit in traffic alot, and DO NOT trust that stock temp sensor, it's not even close to sensitive enough to tell you. And I'm beginning to wonder about that aftermarket temp gauge, it should move up and down depending on what you're doing, and creeping up a bit while sitting. BTW, do you have the stock fan or an electric?

Airaid with the front cover off, so open.
Electric, during testing on all the time as the AC is on.

[Tex Arcana]

Airaid with the front cover off, so open.
Electric, during testing on all the time as the AC is on.
Stock temp gauge/sender, aftermarket gauge/stock sender, or aftermarket gauge/sender?

[Mark #2]

Stock temp gauge/sender, aftermarket gauge/stock sender, or aftermarket gauge/sender?

Reading what the computer is measuring:
IAT, IAT2, ECT, CHT, etc.

No reason not to believe the stock thermocouples.
The one that measures the outside air temp in front of the grill is always dead on.
The one for ECT has always been dead on for whatever thermostat I had in, and I have had three different temperatures and three different water pump styles, always responded as expected with the changes.

I believe the temperatures are correct.

[Tex Arcana]

Reading what the computer is measuring:
IAT, IAT2, ECT, CHT, etc.

No reason not to believe the stock thermocouples.
The one that measures the outside air temp in front of the grill is always dead on.
The one for ECT has always been dead on for whatever thermostat I had in, and I have had three different temperatures and three different water pump styles, always responded as expected with the changes.

I believe the temperatures are correct.
I thought IAT1/IAT was the one in the filter box?? :confused: I also would like to see water temp, if you have that data that's accurate.

[Mark #2]

I thought IAT1/IAT was the one in the filter box?? :confused: I also would like to see water temp, if you have that data that's accurate.
IAT is in the cone filter.
IAT2 is after the intercooler in the intake.

Today's numbers, rad cover off, rear seal back in
Ambient 100
IAT 110
IAT2 128
ECT is water temp 184

Done testing the open filter, may work on the stock box install tomorrow.

[Tex Arcana]

IAT is in the cone filter.
IAT2 is after the intercooler in the intake.

Today's numbers, rad cover off, rear seal back in
Ambient 100
IAT 110
IAT2 128
ECT is water temp 184

Done testing the open filter, may work on the stock box install tomorrow.

Did you happen to get the ECT temps in the earlier runs, especially BEFORE you pulled the shroud?

[Mark #2]

Did you happen to get the ECT temps in the earlier runs, especially BEFORE you pulled the shroud?

Yes, exactly the same.

[Tex Arcana]

Yes, exactly the same.

dangit, do you use IM?? msg me on YM at tex_arcana2002 if you do, it'll be easier to discuss this.

otherwise: how long are you sitting at a light at any time?

[Mark #2]

dangit, do you use IM?? msg me on YM at tex_arcana2002 if you do, it'll be easier to discuss this.

otherwise: how long are you sitting at a light at any time?

No, most lights are less than a minute, but the water temp never moves because the fan is on high with the AC on.

This is a steady state condition I can let the truck idle all day with the fan on high at it stays at 184, at least when it is 100 degrees outside.

It can't go below 170 no matter what the temperature is outside because that is when the thermostat closes.

When the electric fan is controlled by the fan's thermostat and cycling on and off, the water temperature is between 192 and 174 (cold weather data), so 184 in hot weather with the AC on max at 100 and sitting in traffic shows how good the cooling system is designed.

[Tex Arcana]

No, most lights are less than a minute, but the water temp never moves because the fan is on high with the AC on.

This is a steady state condition I can let the truck idle all day with the fan on high at it stays at 184, at least when it is 100 degrees outside.

It can't go below 170 no matter what the temperature is outside because that is when the thermostat closes.

When the electric fan is controlled by the fan's thermostat and cycling on and off, the water temperature is between 192 and 174 (cold weather data), so 184 in hot weather with the AC on max at 100 and sitting in traffic shows how good the cooling system is designed.

Or how much air your fan can move in that situation. I would still like to see data of you in stop-ang-go traffic, to see what it does. Do you have a single electric fan, or duals?

Here's what I'm getting at: ostensibly, the shroud performs two functions: a finger guard; and a device to prevent recirculating fan wash back into the radiator, and recycling hot air into the radiator and causing it to start gaining heat.

We've already established that your fan is moving air past your headers--not necessarily *more* air (because shrouds also help fan efficiency, and can increase airflow), more like that air is now "spread out" and able to move past the headers and help cool them off.

This might make the case for a heat shield on the headers, as well.

[Mark #2]

http://www.kennebell.net/media/articles/LIGHTNINGOWNERS.pdf
Decided against the stock box with this data.
Put the front cover on the Airaid, left off the rad cover, one change at a time, more data to come.

[Silver_2000]

One take away from that article might be that the issue with airfilters/boxes has NOTHING To do with temp (because the intercooler is so good -dropping temps 200 degrees )but is more concerned with airflow

Of course with my lowly 4# pulley Im cool with the stock setup - at least until I can get a deal on a used intake:twitch:

Doug

[Tex Arcana]

http://www.kennebell.net/media/articles/LIGHTNINGOWNERS.pdf
Decided against the stock box with this data.
Put the front cover on the Airaid, left off the rad cover, one change at a time, more data to come.

I've seen that article, Skelton's got it on his website. It's an excellent article, despite the fact it doen'st take into account the reality of street driving. They are right in that a stock motor doesn't need much more than the stock box, but I do have to qualify that and say that my "butt dyno" sez an open filter does add some (and so does a dyno I did in 2004). So far, I haven't had any questionable issues driving in this heat, and I haven't swapped back yet. I am thinking of fabbing up a box for the filter, to control fanwash a bit, and maybe fab up some ductwork to get some air from outside the engine compartment; but I"m way too busy right now to do much more than look crosseyed at it.

what's the open area of the Airraid box and filter??

[Tex Arcana]

One take away from that article might be that the issue with airfilters/boxes has NOTHING To do with temp (because the intercooler is so good -dropping temps 200 degrees )but is more concerned with airflow

Of course with my lowly 4# pulley Im cool with the stock setup - at least until I can get a deal on a used intake:twitch:

Doug

:rll: I keep "shopping" for a 4# setup, but every time I say something I get slapped upside the head. I should be happy I got me a new V1 for bday/anniv.knana

It's easy to say what they said in a climate-controlled dyno; whole different story in reality.

[dboat]

I've seen that article, Skelton's got it on his website. It's an excellent article, despite the fact it doen'st take into account the reality of street driving. They are right in that a stock motor doesn't need much more than the stock box, but I do have to qualify that and say that my "butt dyno" sez an open filter does add some (and so does a dyno I did in 2004). So far, I haven't had any questionable issues driving in this heat, and I haven't swapped back yet. I am thinking of fabbing up a box for the filter, to control fanwash a bit, and maybe fab up some ductwork to get some air from outside the engine compartment; but I"m way too busy right now to do much more than look crosseyed at it.

what's the open area of the Airraid box and filter??

Tex, instead of fabbing something up.. just go get a CoolAid kit from Chickenears.. if you are going to go that route.. otherwise, the setup from Terry will do you just fine.

Dana

[Tex Arcana]

Tex, instead of fabbing something up.. just go get a CoolAid kit from Chickenears.. if you are going to go that route.. otherwise, the setup from Terry will do you just fine.

Dana

Maybe I *want* to fab somthing up, just for the fun of it. :d

What setup from Terry, btw?

[dboat]

Maybe I *want* to fab somthing up, just for the fun of it. :d

What setup from Terry, btw?

This is what I have.. Works great, sounds good, easy to maintain..

Dana

[Mark #2]

This is what I have.. Works great, sounds good, easy to maintain..

Dana
HAI versus CAI, nothing against Terry, and yes I have one, kind of, too. Thus the reason for the thread.

In stop and go traffic easy to see 160 degree intake temps and if you put it in metal box(Airaid) that is not sealed completely off 20 degree lower temps in traffic.

Doug, can you log IAT and IAT2 with your SCT2?
The underhood temps with headers is pretty extreme, I'm amazed the paint stays on the hood.

[dboat]

HAI versus CAI, nothing against Terry, and yes I have one, kind of, too. Thus the reason for the thread.

In stop and go traffic easy to see 160 degree intake temps and if you put it in metal box(Airaid) that is not sealed completely off 20 degree lower temps in traffic.

Doug, can you log IAT and IAT2 with your SCT2?
The underhood temps with headers is pretty extreme, I'm amazed the paint stays on the hood.

true, however, once you are moving the air temp underhood gets to ambient pretty quickly.. for mine, a daily driver, its not an issue so much.. also, with the normal high here in the summer around 78.. well, it doesnt take too long to cool down..
I have been toying with upgrading the intercooler with an electric fan to really make a difference, but just cant justify the cost due to low use.. however, once I get the traction bars, etc.. I might get hooked on going to the track more often..
Dana

[Tex Arcana]

This is what I have.. Works great, sounds good, easy to maintain..

Dana
That's exactly the same filter I have, that I got from Ronald. It flows nicely, sounds good, filters well. I'd just like to pull most if not all of my air from OUTSIDE the engine bay.

[Tex Arcana]

HAI versus CAI, nothing against Terry, and yes I have one, kind of, too. Thus the reason for the thread.

In stop and go traffic easy to see 160 degree intake temps and if you put it in metal box(Airaid) that is not sealed completely off 20 degree lower temps in traffic.

Hence my desire for a box/duct setup.


Doug, can you log IAT and IAT2 with your SCT2?
The underhood temps with headers is pretty extreme, I'm amazed the paint stays on the hood.

I can log them with Ronald's Autotap, but the logging intervals are rather wide, and not adjustable. :(

[Mark #2]

Hence my desire for a box/duct setup.


Doug, can you log IAT and IAT2 with your SCT2?
The underhood temps with headers is pretty extreme, I'm amazed the paint stays on the hood.

I can log them with Ronald's Autotap, but the logging intervals are rather wide, and not adjustable. :(

Log them then, intervals less than a minute shouldn't matter.

[Tex Arcana]

Log them then, intervals less than a minute shouldn't matter.
You need the info? How soon? and how are you logging yours?

[Mark #2]

You need the info? How soon? and how are you logging yours?
Need NO
Curious Yes

Logging with Doug's NGS tool, this thing is sweet I just can't afford to purchase, owe another rental fee now.;)

I love this thing, from an engineer's standpoint the one that owns the data is king.

It is really amazing how a few degrees of ambient temp effect IAT and IAT2, much cooler today 85 at lunch time versus the 100s the past data logs. All the track guys already know this fact.

I am going to open up the hole in the fender, running now with the rad cover on and all the Airaid covers on.

[dboat]

That's exactly the same filter I have, that I got from Ronald. It flows nicely, sounds good, filters well. I'd just like to pull most if not all of my air from OUTSIDE the engine bay.

Terry did all of this stuff way back when.. it only matters when you are sitting still, once you are moving, the engine bay goes to ambient fairly quickly..
Dana

Terry, if you still have your old data.. post up.

[Mark #2]

Terry did all of this stuff way back when.. it only matters when you are sitting still, once you are moving, the engine bay goes to ambient fairly quickly..
Dana

Terry, if you still have your old data.. post up.

No way, especially with headers, the engine bay never gets to ambient. There are some good threads on NLOC and F150 from last summer that state the same thing as I am finding, I am just a year or so behind.;)

[Tex Arcana]

No way, especially with headers, the engine bay never gets to ambient. There are some good threads on NLOC and F150 from last summer that state the same thing as I am finding, I am just a year or so behind.;)

So how 'bout a hood with heat extractors, the ones closer to the leading edge of the hood? Either that, or some ducting from the nose or fenderwells to the headers, and maybe a pair of fans in them.

edit: maybe what you need are heat shields, spaced off the headers to keep the heat out of the engine bay. They can be ducted/cooled, but they would definitely hold off alot of the radiated heat they generate.

[Mark #2]

So how 'bout a hood with heat extractors, the ones closer to the leading edge of the hood? Either that, or some ducting from the nose or fenderwells to the headers, and maybe a pair of fans in them.

edit: maybe what you need are heat shields, spaced off the headers to keep the heat out of the engine bay. They can be ducted/cooled, but they would definitely hold off alot of the radiated heat they generate.
All good ideas, but it is really just a low speed issue, my daily drive is low speed, maybe why I get 10mpg city, 20mpg hwy. I am going open up the fender and run some temp ducting to it to see the effect.

Sixpipes had a fan in his fender for a while, I might mess around with something like that, but at lower velocity. His upset the MAF I think.
Mark

[Tex Arcana]

All good ideas, but it is really just a low speed issue, my daily drive is low speed, maybe why I get 10mpg city, 20mpg hwy. I am going open up the fender and run some temp ducting to it to see the effect.

Sixpipes had a fan in his fender for a while, I might mess around with something like that, but at lower velocity. His upset the MAF I think.
Mark

Then I would thnk seriously about heat shields, then. Passive, simple, bulletproof. Either a single-sheet shield, spaced no more than 1/2" off the header tubes, extending down to the collector; or a set of individual shields, again spaced no more than 1/2" off the tubes, and again extending down to the collectors. Either way, you'll prevent alot of the heat you're getting now, without resorting to header wraps (which I think are a bad idea).

[Mark #2]

Then I would thnk seriously about heat shields, then. Passive, simple, bulletproof. Either a single-sheet shield, spaced no more than 1/2" off the header tubes, extending down to the collector; or a set of individual shields, again spaced no more than 1/2" off the tubes, and again extending down to the collectors. Either way, you'll prevent alot of the heat you're getting now, without resorting to header wraps (which I think are a bad idea).

There are heat sheilds already, where they can fit, there isn't a half inch of clearence in the other areas.

[Tex Arcana]

There are heat sheilds already, where they can fit, there isn't a half inch of clearence in the other areas.
Like I said, "NO MORE THAN 1/2 inch". ;) As long as there is some air gap in there, it'll work.

[Mark #2]

Like I said, "NO MORE THAN 1/2 inch". ;) As long as there is some air gap in there, it'll work.
Agree, great idea, but there is very little room, might be possible but if the heat shield has a greater cross sectional area than the header pipes it will radiate even more heat IMHO.

[Tex Arcana]

Agree, great idea, but there is very little room, might be possible but if the heat shield has a greater cross sectional area than the header pipes it will radiate even more heat IMHO.
If you close it about the pipes (like a header wrap), it will radiate more than it would if the shield is only covering the outside 1/2 of the pipes--remember the early emissions cars, with the heat shield on the exhaust manifold for providing warm startup air to the carb?? They were open on the backside of the manifold. That way, any heat radiating from them goes toward the block, which won't really be affected by it; and the shield will decrease the heat in the engine bay.

[Mark #2]

If you close it about the pipes (like a header wrap), it will radiate more than it would if the shield is only covering the outside 1/2 of the pipes--remember the early emissions cars, with the heat shield on the exhaust manifold for providing warm startup air to the carb?? They were open on the backside of the manifold. That way, any heat radiating from them goes toward the block, which won't really be affected by it; and the shield will decrease the heat in the engine bay.

Agree, the 88 K5 has those and they rattle, not doing.

[Tex Arcana]

Agree, the 88 K5 has those and they rattle, not doing.

When I had the '77 Corolla, the shield was in place 'til I did some EGR delete/carb work, and I pulled it--after that, the engine compartment temps went up some, just a general sense of things.

Remember, that K5 was built during the darkest days at GM, I'm surprised it's held together this long. If you do shields on YOUR truck, YOU will make sure they will NEVER rattle. :tu:

[Mark #2]

When I had the '77 Corolla, the shield was in place 'til I did some EGR delete/carb work, and I pulled it--after that, the engine compartment temps went up some, just a general sense of things.

Remember, that K5 was built during the darkest days at GM, I'm surprised it's held together this long. If you do shields on YOUR truck, YOU will make sure they will NEVER rattle. :tu:

The 88 K5 is the second most desired of all K5s as they are bullet proof, the drive train is still original, 18 years later, the early 70s are the most desirable since they have full removable roofs.

I don't think that a vehicle that has survived me for 18 years was built in GMs darkest days, but the 86 SOs camaro is a different story.:D

[Tex Arcana]

The 88 K5 is the second most desired of all K5s as they are bullet proof, the drive train is still original, 18 years later, the early 70s are the most desirable since they have full removable roofs.

I don't think that a vehicle that has survived me for 18 years was built in GMs darkest days, but the 86 SOs camaro is a different story.:D

How's that interior? ;)

Most I"ve seen are usualyl ragged out and falling apart--the fenderwells like to rust alot.

[dboat]

Mark,
Have you been following this thread over on NLOC? It might be what you are looking for..
Dana

http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/showthread.php?t=127894

[Mark #2]

Mark,
Have you been following this thread over on NLOC? It might be what you are looking for..
Dana

http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/showthread.php?t=127894

Yes, I am following, but I won't be one of the first to purchase.

[dboat]

Yes, I am following, but I won't be one of the first to purchase.


its not a bad idea.. kinda interested to see what the real outcome of it is..
Dana

[Tex Arcana]

Mark,
Have you been following this thread over on NLOC? It might be what you are looking for..
Dana

http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/showthread.php?t=127894
Kinda looks like a reverse-engineered version of Ford's "SuperCooler" setup, but I already see one problem with this: if the cabin evaporator is plumbed in parallel (as shown), and it passing refrigerant thru it with the fan off, it will begin to freeze up any moisture in the air, and eventually build up a block of ice. :nono:

If he puts in a bypass valve to prevent the system from sending refrigerant to the cabin evaporator, then this might work out. I don't know if using 12a refrigerant is a good idea, since the system is designed for use with 134a, but we'll see if his thinking on that will work.