FIFA Soccer ... too many actors

[WA 2 FST]

When I've had a little time to kill, I've been watching some World Cup soccer. I realize I'm a typical jaded American sports-enthusiast who enjoys seeing some offense (all the major US sports have had rule-changes over the years to advance scoring... name one, and I can reference various rules). That's what we like in this country... scoring.

Since 90% of a typical soccer match is spent in the middle 2/3rds of the field, I find it rather mundane and boring. Wake me up when someone gets to shoot a penalty kick, a corner kick, or it goes past OT and they have a shootout. :)

But I have never seen so many grown men (and obviously good athletes) take a dive during live play. I'm sorry, but its pathetic. Some of these guys are barely touched at all and they go sprawling on the ground, wincing in pain. I guess that's part of the game... and these guys must take acting classes that emphasize expression of pain. Some of the collisions are legitimate and may cause some hurt, but give me a break.

And before anyone says I haven't experienced getting kicked in the shins... I've got plenty of scars on shins, ankles, etc from playing HS/college baseball where baserunners spiked me while I was completely vulnerable trying to turn double-plays at 2nd base. And those are metal spikes, not some sissy rubber crap.

It's just like the smallest contact and these guys are all flailing around. Grow up, and play a real sport please... or at least play it the way a _man_ should play it. I know soccer in the US is big with our youth, but they need to "Americanize" it to where contact b/w players is legal and only major infractions (e.g.: kick to the groin) are awarded penalties.

At least Spain is beating France at this point. :tongue: Not anymore... 2 mins later, France gets a breakaway (one of the few exciting plays in the sport) and scores a goal.

[Lyfisin]

(all the major US sports have had rule-changes over the years to advance scoring... name one, and I can reference various rules). That's what we like in this country... scoring.

Some might not call it a sport, but what about golf? The equipment has changed over the years that would have made for better scores, but a lot of courses have been lengthened and fairways narrowed to make it more challenging. The US Open was just won with a score of like +5 or +6!

I agree with pretty much everything you said about soccer. I can't watch it either. I'm pretty much the same with any sport where the action goes constantly back and forth (i.e. basketball and hockey).

The only manly thing I see watching it is what great shape those guys must be in. That's a serious amount of running. It really amazes me this is such a huge world sport.

[WA 2 FST]

Some might not call it a sport, but what about golf? The equipment has changed over the years that would have made for better scores, but a lot of courses have been lengthened and fairways narrowed to make it more challenging. The US Open was just won with a score of like +5 or +6!



True, but that's only for one tournament. Most of them see record scoring occuring often. The equipment (not only clubs, but the technology that's gone into improving the consistency and distance potential of the balls) has _forced_ the change in courses to keep it from being too easy (for the pros).

[99WhiteBeast]

I tend to agree with you Wes at the FIFA level. However competive (select) youth soccer is a whole different animal. I witness weekly tough physical contact that is rarely called and horrific fouls that never get a penalty kick.

I guess the refs who proabably get paid less than $20 a game are not going to work that hard. I recently got on one refs case after some bad calls and was told to go to the parking lot. He further stated I should have my kids in swimming or tennis if I did not want contact.

[WA 2 FST]

Steve,

I hear ya, and I have no reason to doubt you. In fact, on my Little League select baseball team we also have one kid who plays select soccer for a top club in the area (Andromeda). Anyway, he's a midfielder and is always battling injury... so I know there is a lot of contact.

You're right... its probably just at the international level. I don't follow the MLS here in the US, so I don't know how that is.

And yes... amatuer officials tend to not give 100% to the games they call, even though the kids always do. :(

[Lyfisin]

True, but that's only for one tournament. Most of them see record scoring occuring often.

It's surprising seeing some of these wins at -20. I'd say these guys definately weren't challenged at those events.

What I was trying to say there was that in spite of all of these new technologies the sport overall hasn't decreased in difficulty to promote scoring. The record scores that I see only beat the previous record by a stroke usually and it's not like all of the guys who didn't get the record are only a stroke or two behind. Sometimes people just have unbelievable days. If you throw out the US Open, the golf tournaments this year were won by an average of 15.41 under par. That's not even 4 under per round.


The equipment (not only clubs, but the technology that's gone into improving the consistency and distance potential of the balls) has _forced_ the change in courses to keep it from being too easy (for the pros).

Well see there we agree. Golf rules haven't changed to promote scoring. :beer:

Actually, I don't know that golf has actually had any rule changes at all. The game remains pretty much the same while the courses and equipment have obviously changed. I think every sport needs variety to keep the fans interested though. Now if they could only do that with soccer.

Anyway, I totally get what you are saying about scoring in general. I'm just rising to your challenge of naming a sport so you could comment on the rule changes that promoted scoring in it. :) And to be fair, you said "major US sports" so I'm not really sure golf qualifies.

If I had to name the major US sports, I'd say baseball, football, basketball and hockey and certainly in those sports you're totally correct.

[Tex Arcana]

I tend to agree with you Wes at the FIFA level. However competive (select) youth soccer is a whole different animal. I witness weekly tough physical contact that is rarely called and horrific fouls that never get a penalty kick.

I guess the refs who proabably get paid less than $20 a game are not going to work that hard. I recently got on one refs case after some bad calls and was told to go to the parking lot. He further stated I should have my kids in swimming or tennis if I did not want contact.

I had similar issues with club soccer when my younger one was playing: poor officiating, lots of dirty play, and a too-great-an-emphasis on winning at all costs, which in the end encourages cheating and diving. :nono: He ended up breaking his arm in an Olympic Developmental Program tryout game, playing his best game ever as a midfielder (started out life as the best stopper I've ever seen)--went up for a header against a guy a head taller than him, who gave him a shove with the forearm, and when he landed, snapped both bones in his left arm. :mad: ODP people held a spot for him, but he never really "came back" from that, and went away from soccer. Unfortunate, because that would've been his ticket to college.

In all the time with the club ball and watching the game--and I truly enjoy watching a good game, the chess match on the field is as much fun as sitting in the stands at a baseball game keeping score and watching *that* chess match--I've noticed something: that what keeps Anerican's away from soccer isn't really the low scoring, or the prolonged chess-matching; it's because the game is as dirty as the NBA, with refs that are obviously biased or obviously oblivious, and with players that take ridiculous dives or play ridiculously dirty. Some role models for our kids. :rolleyes:

[WA 2 FST]

I understand _everything_ you're saying here Tex, and can empathize with what you experienced.

And the fact is that soccer is _huge_ amoung our youth. I have a cousin who plays at Univ. of Arkansas. Just b/c I don't have an appreciation for it (it was just starting to take root here in N. Dallas when I was a kid), doesn't mean anything.

But I don't agree with your premise about why American's don't take to it (at least at the international level). Remember, we don't really take to basketball at the international level, either (different rules there compared to here in the US). In fact, I believe our typical sports fanatic enjoys the constant physicality of what used to be "finesse" sports.

Certainly officiating has its issues. In any sport where there is a lot left to subjectivity, there are going to various interpretations from game to game... and then when you add politics or outside pressure to an official (especially someone who is not a professional), it can compound the problem. But one of the most popular sports in the US (boxing) is nothing more than grown men beating each other to a pulp, and is one of the most rigged sports in the world... yet Americans spent hundreds of millions to watch/enjoy it.

I think, by and large, that Americans enjoy the "contact" sports (look at the Class B sports such as Arena football ... let's get them into tighter quarters and give them all running starts so the point of contact is with even greater force... another example would be the Ultimate Fighting Championships). Basketball is certainly a different game at the college/pro level than it is at the high school level, which is as far as I played it. It's definitely a physical game... you're right.

And my original point was just that it appears that these international players fall half the time b/c someone bumped into them. It's weak. It's pathetic. I mean... we're not even talking about two guys running the opposite direction full speed and making contact. Usually its two guys running at almost the exact same angle, both are within 20lbs of each other, one gets bumped and goes flying... or both do. It's a joke.

I do abhor the "winning at all costs" attitudes of many youth coaches. I have yet to see where that truly develops the fundamental skills which will help some of our players go on to play later in life. Coaches should be teachers. If they aren't qualified to teach the sport, then they sure as heck shouldn't be coaching it!!

[gbgary]

first off, i love soccer. it's a very physical game depending on the player, and skill level (youth, club, college, etc.). i've watched my step-son go through the ranks from youth, to club (u18 {'82s} state cup champs and u.s. regional finalists...we owned the dallas texans, lol), to college, and now he's coaching at lightning. over the years he broke both collar bones. england and german pro leagues are especially physical. the world cup has been great except for the officiating which has been very intolerant to physical play. way too many cards! as for the acting...well, soccer is no different than the nba in that regard. i think the officiating will let-up some in the w.c. semi finals...we'll see. as for the win-at-all-costs attitude in youth sports...i've never seen it applied to soccer in our experience. grades, injuries, attitudes, practice habits, are what determined if a player played or not. as for scoring...they'd better not trick-up the game to make it attractive to an american audience. keep the "beautiful game" beautiful!! if the u.s. public never adopts soccer, it's their loss.

go u.s. soccer, manchester united/england (ROOOONEY!!! A MAGNIFICENT GOAL!!), fc dallas!!!!!!!

by the way...i'm a hugh greenbay packer, texas ranger, dallas maverick, boston bruins, fan.

[99WhiteBeast]

now he's coaching at lightning.



My step-daughter plays for the 95 Lightning team. We're about to make a move to FW United though.

Does your step son drive a sonic blue Lightning by chance? I've seen one at some of the practices where multiple year teams have been working out.

[gbgary]

My step-daughter plays for the 95 Lightning team. We're about to make a move to FW United though.

Does your step son drive a sonic blue Lightning by chance? I've seen one at some of the practices where multiple year teams have been working out.

no. he had a dsg lightning for a while but sold it recently.