Keep the faith !!!! SVT

[sandpiperx]

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/07/svt-has-a-future-says-hau-thai-tang/ This could be a good sign. I guess we will wait and see. mp:tu:

[Silver_2000]

so this would be the 6th or 7th sea change in the last 2 years..

they have lost ALL credibilty at this point

[Logan]

Considering I'm a pretty damned loyal Ford fanatic for 15-20 years and in the last year finally strayed to a Caddy CTS-V, and now dumped the Mustang GT for an SRT8 Jeep... SVT and Ford should be ashamed of their completely uninspired product line-up today... Only mildly interesting vehicle they have is the Shelby and after toodling around in a mustang for 6 months, I could really care less...

The boys at SRT and Chrysler, sad for me to admit, have their game on in style. I couldn't be happier with the jeep. Handles better than a lightning, Goes like stink, outrunning the Cayenne Turbo at half the price and has all the luxury crap you could ever want...

At least I'm finally interested in what I drive everyday again...

PS - Yes, the Harley F150 is still in the garage, but it handles like a tank compared to the Jeep.

[wesman]

Logan,

I agree with you completely. The boys over at Dodge have made the SVT crew look silly for the last few years on their way to complete and utter domination of the present day lineup.

My next new car will likely be a Dodge as well. Leaning toward the Challenger if the make it as planned.

--wes

[WA 2 FST]

I agree with Logan and Wes. I hate to diss Ford, but they have let down the performance-enthusiast. Let's see... kill the L, kill the Cobra (for a 2+yr period), bring a knife to a gunfight (Mustang GT vs. Pontiac GTO/Dodge Charger SRT-8), and before production even began they announce that their supercar Ford GT is only going to be be built for 3 years. QC is not that great on the Ford GT, either... not for a $150-200k car.

I especially applaud Dodge for their SRT program. It is great. They are producing interesting, fun vehicles... even if they all seem to get 9mpg. LOL.

[Logan]

Hey...My no mileage SRT8 actually got a whoppin' 11.8 mpg driving back from Dallas to Austin... :)

[Silver_2000]

Hey...My no mileage SRT8 actually got a whoppin' 11.8 mpg driving back from Dallas to Austin... :)

Holy crap ... I thought my milage sucked

[WA 2 FST]

Plenty of Jeep SRT-8 owners claim 8-9mpg in the city with theirs. I thought 11.8 sounded pretty good, figuring Logan did 80-85mph on the trip. :)

Gas mileage is the only reason I haven't sold the Expedition and bought one. Our Expedition (wife's DD) gets horrible gas mileage... ~11mpg city/16mpg highway. I have to find something with a decent improvement (that's also an SUV) in order to get rid of it, though. Trailblazer SS is pretty cool, but some of the plastics used are very cheap, IMHO...even compared to our 6yr old Expy. The new Tahoe is nice, but doesn't offer any level of "excitement."

[Logan]

My neighbour has a new Tahoe LTZ, I was impressed with it... Nice wheels and nice interior... The new Tahoe's are less ugly than they've traditionally been...

[WA 2 FST]

My neighbour has a new Tahoe LTZ, I was impressed with it... Nice wheels and nice interior... The new Tahoe's are less ugly than they've traditionally been...

I agree with you. They are nice. They get "good" gas mileage too considering what they are. However, I am willing to bet that fully loaded LTZ was close to 50 large. I'm not spending that on something as mundane as a Tahoe.

[Logan]

My neighbour is about 58 or something... It suits em well. :)

[WA 2 FST]

My neighbour is about 58 or something... It suits em well. :)

Don't get me wrong. I think its a nice SUV.

[mardyn]

SRT-8), and before production even began they announce that their supercar Ford GT is only going to be be built for 3 years. QC is not that great on the Ford GT, either... not for a $150-200k car.


I bought a new GT and I'm pretty happy with it... QC could have been slightly better though... No issues with mine so far, other than the door panel trim ring coming loose, which seem to be a common problem.

Two years, '05 & '06 was the planned build years for the GT, I think 4000 plus/minus a few is the intended number.

But I'll certainly agree, Ford dropped the ball with a bunch of loyal Ford guys with all the recent uncertainty about SVT... I also like to see 'em drop the whole Shelby deal and move on... Jeeze, quit beatin' us over the head with that same old crap.

btw, I'm extra damn glad they didn't find some way to attach Shelby's name to the GT project too... I probably wouldn't made the purchase if they had done so.

mardyn

[99WhiteBeast]

Ford blew their wad on the GT40 and GT500 and now the whole company is suffering especially the SVT program.:mad:

[Tex Arcana]

Ford blew their wad on the GT40 and GT500 and now the whole company is suffering especially the SVT program.:mad:
problem is, it goes deeper than that. Ford's got alot of problems and of course the highest-visibility sections that have waht's *percieved* as having the worst economy gets the axe first, even if the numbers don't impact overall CAFE that much, or if that section is what brings people into the showrooms and they leave in something else.

It was a stroke of genius to create a whole linup of "halo vehicles", that helped bring people into the showroom. DC has it figured out as well, and are reaaping the benefits of this as well. GM on the other hand can't seem to get it right, and keeps shooting themselves in the foot where it comes to performance and halos--the 'vette is a good halo car, but consumers are more savvy these days, and expect more than just one halo to earn their loyalty.

I hope Ford manages to pull their collective heads out their azzes.

[WA 2 FST]

GM is light-years ahead of Ford, Tex.

300+hp V8s in 4-door sedans... GM has a number of them. Ford has ... uh... zero. They release things like the Fusion and Ford 500 and expect people to think this is progress.

GM may have only one 'halo' vehicle, but what I would call their "mainstream" cars have a LOT more to offer than what the Blue Oval is giving us.

Ford still seems to do well in the truck market, though. However, if I was buying a typical full-size truck today, it would be hard to beat the Nissan Titan.

[Tex Arcana]

GM is light-years ahead of Ford, Tex.

300+hp V8s in 4-door sedans... GM has a number of them. Ford has ... uh... zero. They release things like the Fusion and Ford 500 and expect people to think this is progress.

GM may have only one 'halo' vehicle, but what I would call their "mainstream" cars have a LOT more to offer than what the Blue Oval is giving us.

Ford still seems to do well in the truck market, though. However, if I was buying a typical full-size truck today, it would be hard to beat the Nissan Titan.
Light years ahead in what?? Here's some recent stats for you:


http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/06/by-the-numbers-june-2006/

The sales numbers for most of the car manufacturers are in for June 2006.. and oh man.. what is up with Saab??? But lil Suzuki is doing extremely well with the new Grand Vitara.

http://www.cycloneinjapan.com/upload/files/46/sales-june-06.jpg

How is GM doing well?? They're choking on their own detritus, despite their V8 sedans. I agree with you, I think Ford should bring the Falcon sedans and utes over, V8s and all, and watch them fly off the shelves; on the other hand, despite the bobble now, they still seem to be doing pretty well.

Also, please note I did say that I think Ford's screwed up attempting to kill their "halo division", aka SVT. :nono:

[WA 2 FST]

I wasn't talking about sales or anything like that. :nono: :nono: I wasn't talking profits. I mean, who is to say DC's decision to offer all these cool halo vehicles will be good in the long run. I'm too short-sighted and don't have any real $$ tied up in any of these companies to care what their bottom line is.

Just looking at the stats you post, Ford is whipping the other 2 of the "Big 3". That's fine and good. Bill Ford has gotten his way. He's selling lots of _crap_, average, mediocre, "clone" vehicles and the public is buying them. Good for him. That doesn't have any impact on what I might purchase b/c I have no interest in any of them (not saying catering to the performance-enthusiast is profitable, though... I understand the economics behind these types of decisions, but it doesn't mean I like it).

But as we both agree SVT has been neutered. Ho Chi Min (or whatever his name is) isn't a _real_ performance enthusiast, IMHO. So even if he's given a decent budget, I don't see anything really worthwhile coming out of there for years. I mean is the GT500 a true SVT product?

This isn't a "bobble" by Ford, either.

[Mark #2]

Where did John Colletti go? What's he doing now?

[Tex Arcana]

I wasn't talking about sales or anything like that. :nono: :nono: I wasn't talking profits. I mean, who is to say DC's decision to offer all these cool halo vehicles will be good in the long run. I'm too short-sighted and don't have any real $$ tied up in any of these companies to care what their bottom line is.

Just looking at the stats you post, Ford is whipping the other 2 of the "Big 3". That's fine and good. Bill Ford has gotten his way. He's selling lots of _crap_, average, mediocre, "clone" vehicles and the public is buying them. Good for him. That doesn't have any impact on what I might purchase b/c I have no interest in any of them (not saying catering to the performance-enthusiast is profitable, though... I understand the economics behind these types of decisions, but it doesn't mean I like it).

But as we both agree SVT has been neutered. Ho Chi Min (or whatever his name is) isn't a _real_ performance enthusiast, IMHO. So even if he's given a decent budget, I don't see anything really worthwhile coming out of there for years. I mean is the GT500 a true SVT product?

This isn't a "bobble" by Ford, either.
I can only hope it is a bobble, otherwise we'll be looking at the 80's all over again. :vomit:

I think what made SVT work so well is that they were able to appeal to a broad spectrum of people, from those who liked pocket-rockets (SVT Focus, SVT Contour), sports cars and GTs (Mustangs), trucks (Lightning), and sedans (Marauder). I'm not sure if Hau Chang is or isn't into his job, but what I am sure of is the guy who well and truly killed SVT has already moved on to another company--I can't remember his name but he was a veep and had Bill Ford's ear the whole time, I think he moved to Chrysler but I could be wrong.

I agree with you that the present lineup is weaksauce and boring: hell, I wanted them to produce variations of the FortyNine and the 427 show cars,can you imagine if they went ahead and actually built those, how they would've neutered the 300 and every one of GMs boremobiles?? Too late now, tho. :(

[dboat]

Where did John Colletti go? What's he doing now?


retired.

[Mark #2]

retired.
Yeah, I knew that, just suspected that he would be doing something else by now.
And I was looking forward to buying one of these to replace the K5:
http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2004-Ford-Bronco-Concept.htm

[dboat]

Yeah, I knew that, just suspected that he would be doing something else by now.
And I was looking forward to buying one of these to replace the K5:
http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2004-Ford-Bronco-Concept.htm

Yep, saw it at the Auto Show.. didnt seem as impressive in person though.. besides the K5 is paid for:tu:

[Mark #2]

Yep, saw it at the Auto Show.. didn't seem as impressive in person though.. besides the K5 is paid for:tu:

It's been paid off for 16 years, I can probably afford to get something new, there just isn't a replacement...almost on the Jeep SRT-8 but it gets lower mileage than a 18 year old K5.

Might be time for a sports car again, but thankfully I'm not gray, fat, or bald enough yet for a Corvette, maybe one of the retro muscle cars coming.

[WA 2 FST]

Might be time for a sports car again, but thankfully I'm not gray, fat, or bald enough yet for a Corvette, maybe one of the retro muscle cars coming.

Hey, hey, hey... I'm neither gray or fat (losing a little hair off the top, but that can happen to anyone, right?). I'm not slow or out of shape, either. :)

Seriously... I know you're just joking, but if you want a sports/performance car you should buy the best one you can afford, and for its performance. That's the only reason I bought a Z06 4+ years ago (I was only 34 at the time, so I wasn't "old enough" to fit the stereotypical Vette-owner crowd). No chance of a 2+2 off the showroom floor coming close to a 2-seat V8 sports car in performance. In a straight line the 2+2 might be close every now and then, but in no other performance-related category can it hang (unless you want to spend serious $$ in aftermarket parts, which typically void the warranty... not that I personally care much about warranties;) ).

[wesman]

Logan,

I agree with you completely. The boys over at Dodge have made the SVT crew look silly for the last few years on their way to complete and utter domination of the present day lineup.

My next new car will likely be a Dodge as well. Leaning toward the Challenger if the make it as planned.

--wes


Well hello there :bows

It's On (http://www.dodge.com/en/challenger/index.html)

[tiffo60]

Well hello there :bows

It's On (http://www.dodge.com/en/challenger/index.html)

nice:cool:

[Logan]

God damn that's a sexy Challenger. I... must...resist... But crap. I'm going to have a year or two to stew on it and I'll end up paying some ridiculous premium on it cuz I have to have it... Damn you Chrysler.... Damn you.

[Mark #2]

Hey, hey, hey... I'm neither gray or fat (losing a little hair off the top, but that can happen to anyone, right?). I'm not slow or out of shape, either. :)

Seriously... I know you're just joking, but if you want a sports/performance car you should buy the best one you can afford, and for its performance. That's the only reason I bought a Z06 4+ years ago (I was only 34 at the time, so I wasn't "old enough" to fit the stereotypical Vette-owner crowd). No chance of a 2+2 off the showroom floor coming close to a 2-seat V8 sports car in performance. In a straight line the 2+2 might be close every now and then, but in no other performance-related category can it hang (unless you want to spend serious $$ in aftermarket parts, which typically void the warranty... not that I personally care much about warranties;) ).

I too was referring to the Challenger in my previous posts, but what year used Z06 would be the one to get? Just in case I decide to not fit the mold too.

[tiffo60]

any 02 and up

[Mark #2]

any 02 and up
So they are all the same after 02, no improvements?

[tiffo60]

horsepower wise 02 to 04 are the same, but i know from the vette owners iv known they all say 01 and under all have week rings causing blow by

[BC Lightning]

So they are all the same after 02, no improvements?

None really, 2001 was the first year of Z06 so there will always be some thing to improve on, I would say pull the trigger on 2002+

Our 50th Anniv Vette is just an LS1, but it still has plenty of power to get up and move

[WA 2 FST]

horsepower wise 02 to 04 are the same, but i know from the vette owners iv known they all say 01 and under all have week rings causing blow by

The ring packaging _and_ piston design improved from 02+. The '01s are a hit-and-miss as far as having oil control problems. I would stay away from an '01. The '04s have improved shocks. I put these on my '02 and felt a little bit of difference (slightly better handling AND ride... so its a win-win).

A stock '02+ Z06 will make ~350-360rwhp. 350rwhp was what mine made @ 1100 miles, and the next day I went to the strip and ran 12.36 @ 116.4mph on stock F1 radials. :) These cars can be had for a song, and many of them are just garage-queens. Plus they get 28mpg with long stretches on the highway. I'm not saying its the best car out there, but its a very good combination, and at the price they are going for now... you get a LOT for the $$.

[Mark #2]

Thanks for the information, I agree alot of car for the $$. just might look around for one.