Sound Dampening. Any advice?

[Ohmsby]

Well I think the interior needs to come out and the composite material (b-quiet, dyna mat etc.) will be installed to lower the cab noise.

I will take any advice on the process. I am sure some of you have done this to your L's.

Thanks in advance for any help

[Mark #2]

Well I think the interior needs to come out and the composite material (b-quiet, dyna mat etc.) will be installed to lower the cab noise.

I will take any advice on the process. I am sure some of you have done this to your L's.

Thanks in advance for any help

I have done Dynamat, definitely helps but do not put it over the flaps in the rear of the cab(those provide venting for the airbags, so your ear drums don't get blown).

I did all the way to the roof up the B pillars, and the doors. Some say do the roof too, I didn't.

Good time to do it, 100 degrees, will stick real well, all you need is a utility knife and a wall paper seam roller.
Took me about a week to complete, but I am slow.

[dboat]

http://www.talonclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8930

Here's some pics of mine when Terry did it last year.. it was great because the need for the a/c dropped way down afterwards, along with much lower outside sound coming in.. the sound from inside (the stereo) didnt change much but just got better.

Dana

[PoorSvtman]

I might go get a one of the big rolls from a stereo shop and work on doing it this weekend.. all depends how motivated i get...

[gbgary]

i'd love to do that too. seems like doing the floor would make the biggest difference. anyone ever do this in stages?

[L8 APEX]

The rear pillars and the slider rear window is 70% of the noise. Get a one piece rear window and you will be amazed.

[Ohmsby]

Thanks for all of the advice. I purchased a material called B-quiet from Canada. The cost was less than the Dynamat.

I am not one to buy the cheap peanut butter but after an evening of research the data seems to suggest the products are equal in performance.

I intend on doing everything except the headliner. I like the idea of the solid window. Any idea on $$.

As always thanks for the advice :D

[SILVER2000SVT]

www.carmedia1.com (http://www.carmedia1.com)

They sell dynamat pretty cheap. I recommend doing the headliner too. It made a noticable difference on an old truck of mine. Keep in mind it's just one thin layer of metal on the roof with no stiffening ribs like on the rear wall. I highly recommend not using the dynamat original because its very time consuming to work with because you need to heat it to make it stick. I really like the dynamat extreme because it's extra sticky and bonds really well without all the extra work.

[Tex Arcana]

well, I did a bit of digging, but I can't find where I posted a bit of advice regarding this, and it centers around the cab vents under the back window. They are essentially openings that are about 2" by 5", with those little rubber flaps they put in them. Supposedly they prevent air from getting in, and let air out when you slam the doors, but they don't really stop infiltration too well, and they let a whole lot fo sound in. Ken Cryder sealed his off, which helped with the sound, but made it hard as hell to close his doors, and I'm still waiting for the day a window or his windshield pop out from the pressure.

What I came up with, was taking something like Dynamat, and setting it up such that you had about a 1" opening at the bottom on the outside, and a similar one at the top on the inside, and loosely stuffing insulation in the middle.

Kinda like this ("inside" is left):
http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/ventmod.JPG

The red stuff on the sides it dynamat or somesuch, the pink stuff in the middle is the insulation. This way, you still have a release path for sudden air pressure changes (door slams), and you get noise and air intrusion resistance as well. I tried to pull mine off a few weeks ago, but found you have to pull the inner cab panels to do it, and didn't want to go to that much trouble then. BUt I think this will do you well.

[TXBLU]

I used some hand towels and aluminum tape to cover mine up a couple of years ago. I had already Dynomatted the floor, rear wall and corners. The difference in noise was incredible! Only problem was it blew the sealer out of the upper right corner of my windshield. I just couldn't remember to roll the window down before I closed the door. I just deal with the noise now, although I have been thinking about making a muffler box that would fit over the vents from the outside, so as not to intrude on interior space. I'm sure I could make something nice out of sheet aluminum, but I think the bed would have to come off to be able to mount it up nice.

Terry is right about the rear window, but there is even more noise (tires, exhaust, etc. ) coming from those vents. Not a good design.

[Silver_2000]

Ok so closing the vents blew the windshield seal

As Mark# 2 warned - Imagine what the airbag(s) would do to you when they go off if you block those vents ..

If you want a feel for the real noise coming thru the vents take the back panel off the cab

When I did my stereo install I removed the back panels and bought some dynamat type stuff from Circuit city . I dynamatted the back wall up to the window and in and behind the rear speakers. I also did the door panels.

I drove around for 2 days with the rear panels removed - You get a real feel for how well the sound is deadened with the stock can VS nothing. When I have more time I would love to sound proof the floor and the rest of the way up the b pillars ...

[TXBLU]

Yeah, dummy me didn't even think about the airbag thing. D'oh!!!!

If I were keeping the truck, I would probably finnish Dynomatting the cab (roof, doors, a-pillars), but it's just too much hassle for just a couple months (hopefully) wait. That's one thinh I definately noticed about the SRT; It sure is quiet inside!!!!:D

[Tex Arcana]

I used some hand towels and aluminum tape to cover mine up a couple of years ago. I had already Dynomatted the floor, rear wall and corners. The difference in noise was incredible! Only problem was it blew the sealer out of the upper right corner of my windshield. I just couldn't remember to roll the window down before I closed the door. I just deal with the noise now, although I have been thinking about making a muffler box that would fit over the vents from the outside, so as not to intrude on interior space. I'm sure I could make something nice out of sheet aluminum, but I think the bed would have to come off to be able to mount it up nice.

Terry is right about the rear window, but there is even more noise (tires, exhaust, etc. ) coming from those vents. Not a good design.

That's why my design works: it forces the sound to travel a path that helps absorb it, especially with the insulation there, AND it lets the cabin air escape so you do'nt blow out a window or windshield seal. :tu:

[PoorSvtman]

That's why my design works: it forces the sound to travel a path that helps absorb it, especially with the insulation there, AND it lets the cabin air escape so you do'nt blow out a window or windshield seal. :tu:

Theres a reason those vents on the back of the cab are the size they are.. I realy think your idea is good, it will work fine for shutting a door,etc.. But the pressures of both air bags, even one going off in a cab with all the windows shut and having any kind of restriction on the vents can be bad.. I rather deal with the noise and not take the chance of the pressures created by the airbag going off with them closed and causing more harm to me during a wreck..


But theres not much your going to be able to do about the noise with the exhaust exiting where it dose.. Just dyno mat the heck out of the cab and if its still to loud go back to stock exhaust or a different muffler..

[Tex Arcana]

Theres a reason those vents on the back of the cab are the size they are.. I realy think your idea is good, it will work fine for shutting a door,etc.. But the pressures of both air bags, even one going off in a cab with all the windows shut and having any kind of restriction on the vents can be bad.. I rather deal with the noise and not take the chance of the pressures created by the airbag going off with them closed and causing more harm to me during a wreck..


But theres not much your going to be able to do about the noise with the exhaust exiting where it dose.. Just dyno mat the heck out of the cab and if its still to loud go back to stock exhaust or a different muffler..


Good point, tho I think maybe tweaking the size of the "ports" might help with that considerably; plus, using actual fiberglass insulation won't stop the motion of air thru the vent, especially in the event of an airbag deployment.

[dboat]

Good point, tho I think maybe tweaking the size of the "ports" might help with that considerably; plus, using actual fiberglass insulation won't stop the motion of air thru the vent, especially in the event of an airbag deployment.

Tex, my only concern when I read your suggestion on the fiberglass was that I thought that fiberglass was installed in houses to slow down the movement of air. This creates the insulating effect. Or am I wrong on that one?
Dana

[Silver_2000]

Tex, my only concern when I read your suggestion on the fiberglass was that I thought that fiberglass was installed in houses to slow down the movement of air. This creates the insulating effect. Or am I wrong on that one?
Dana you are right a huge rush of air from the airbags would just ball up pink fiberglass insulation into a plug - in my opinion

[Tex Arcana]

Tex, my only concern when I read your suggestion on the fiberglass was that I thought that fiberglass was installed in houses to slow down the movement of air. This creates the insulating effect. Or am I wrong on that one?
Dana
What it's designed to do is trap air and slow heat transfer from one side to the other. If you take some insulation, you can blow thru it, which is why they face it with paper and recommend you wrap houses with a barrier of some sort.

Also note I said "LOOSELY" stuff it. YOu have to keep the little rubber flaps from staying closed, unless you remove them. You also have to remember that the ventilation system still provides a path for air, at least while it's running in normal AC mode (not max) or in heat mode.

[Tex Arcana]

you are right a huge rush of air from the airbags would just ball up pink fiberglass insulation into a plug - in my opinion

On the inside of the vent, not really: the framework the rubber flaps are hanging on will keep it in place, and keep it open; on the other side, however, I can see it being blown out the remaining vent hole, unless it's help in place somehow. I did kinda assume that the Dynamat adhesive layer would help hold its shape.

[Silver_2000]

On the inside of the vent, not really: the framework the rubber flaps are hanging on will keep it in place, and keep it open; on the other side, however, I can see it being blown out the remaining vent hole, unless it's help in place somehow. I did kinda assume that the Dynamat adhesive layer would help hold its shape.

test it - pack some in a tube the same diameter - put a screen on the end of the tube and use a compressor and air gun

I bet the insulation presses down and wads against the screen - blocking air passge

[Tex Arcana]

test it - pack some in a tube the same diameter - put a screen on the end of the tube and use a compressor and air gun

I bet the insulation presses down and wads against the screen - blocking air passge
Not a valid test, tho, for what we're doing here. You would have to expand the middle fo the tube to about 4 or 5 times the diameter of the inlet/exit, and put that screen in the middle.

Think your home a/c air filter: that's in essence fiberglass insulation, and it won't ever wad up because of how it's attached and how the air flows across it.

[PoorSvtman]

Not a valid test, tho, for what we're doing here. You would have to expand the middle fo the tube to about 4 or 5 times the diameter of the inlet/exit, and put that screen in the middle.

Think your home a/c air filter: that's in essence fiberglass insulation, and it won't ever wad up because of how it's attached and how the air flows across it.


Tex stop thinking.. your putting way to much thought into something that shouldnt be messed with in the first place....

[Tex Arcana]

Tex stop thinking.. your putting way to much thought into something that shouldnt be messed with in the first place....
Toooo late... this has been bouncing around in my head for at least 3 years now. :(

[PoorSvtman]

Toooo late... this has been bouncing around in my head for at least 3 years now. :(

just like the other stuff you over think and never put to the test?

[Tex Arcana]

just like the other stuff you over think and never put to the test?


Operative word here is "so far"...:hammer:

[PoorSvtman]

Operative word here is "so far"...:hammer:

Leave this one alone... Just dynomat your truck with maybe with a few layers and be done with it.. Still to loud get different exhaust or put the tail pipes out the rear....

[Mark #2]

I had two extra Bassani exhaust insert baffles, I mounted them over the flaps so mine have mufflers on them.

[PoorSvtman]

hey mark got any pics of those bassani inserts..

[Silver_2000]

just like the other stuff you over think and never put to the test?:rll:

[Mark #2]

hey mark got any pics of those bassani inserts..
I've posted the pics a few times, under some exhaust threads.

[Tex Arcana]

Leave this one alone... Just dynomat your truck with maybe with a few layers and be done with it.. Still to loud get different exhaust or put the tail pipes out the rear....
And if I don't want to?? I sure as hell ain't takin' orders from the likes of you. If I wanted to be sheeple, I'd've done what everyone else around here does, baaa baaa. :nono:

[Silver_2000]

And if I don't want to?? I sure as hell ain't takin' orders from the likes of you. If I wanted to be sheeple, I'd've done what everyone else around here does, baaa baaa. :nono:

this is getting good :rll:

[dboat]

Actually, I just got back to this thread and its now two pages longer..

I was at the audio shop on Sat and the guy was showing me an install on a Vette he was doing.. On top of the regular dynamat with the metal backing, he was adding another dynamat product that was dense rubber with a lead insert in it.. very moldable and apparently very sound absorbent.. but not exactly light..

Dana

[03LightningRocks]

:evil

[Ohmsby]

:rll: :rll: :rll: Plan on installing at my shop this weekend

[03LightningRocks]

I might mention something about Dynamat extreme and it's counterparts. It is designed to stop vibration...not sound. It may help with outside noise a little, but they make other products that are actually for noise reduction. ;)

[Mark #2]

I might mention something about Dynamat extreme and it's counterparts. It is designed to stop vibration...not sound. It may help with outside noise a little, but they make other products that are actually for noise reduction. ;)

Yup, got to go to the lead product, but it does help a lot with resonance from a loud exhaust, IMHO.

[PoorSvtman]

And if I don't want to?? I sure as hell ain't takin' orders from the likes of you. If I wanted to be sheeple, I'd've done what everyone else around here does, baaa baaa. :nono:

Your talking to the wrong person about being different, You just think different, you dont do it:tongue: .. Unlike most here i have used something different to either the suspension, motor or exhaust, or looks department

[Silver_2000]

I might mention something about Dynamat extreme and it's counterparts. It is designed to stop vibration...not sound. It may help with outside noise a little, but they make other products that are actually for noise reduction. ;)
http://www.dynamat.com/faqs_faqs.html#text3081anc

What is Dynamat?
Dynamat is a thin, flexible, easy to cut and mold sheet that actually stops noise causing resonance and vibration, by using visco-elastic qualities that promote vibro-acoustic energy conversion. In short, that means noise becomes silent energy.

^ Back to Top (http://www.dynamat.com/faqs_faqs.html#top)
if( is.min ){ document.write(image3093.div) } http://www.dynamat.com/images/hline604.gif
How much Dynamat do I need to use to be effective?
You can apply Dynamat in patches (25-50% area coverage) to keep a specific panel from resonating or you can apply it over an entire area (such as the floor, doors, or trunk) to create a sound barrier and thermal insulator.

dynamat extreeme is only $7.50 a foot


http://www.dynamat.com/technical_specs_extremeliner.html


Description:
Extremeliner is a composite material with four parts.

• Bottom layer of 1/8" neoprene foam that damps the material it is mounted against and decouples the vibrating panel from the other layers of material.

• 15 mils of acoustic lead, the ultimate low- frequency barrier that not only provides strong low-frequency attenuation, but also enables Extremeliner to conform to irregular or uneven surfaces.

• 1/4" of high-efficiency, open/closed cell acoustic foam optimized for absorbing low- frequency sound. The open cells are designed to accept sound waves while the closed cells dissipate them.

• 3 mil urethane top facing with a random pattern for a tough outer coating that minimizes reflections and dramatically improves system performance, especially in the lower mid-range and mid-bass frequencies where normal acoustic foam becomes less effective.

its only $24 a sq foot

[03LightningRocks]

Doug...it stops noise from vibration, not from sounds outside the vehicle. They are real close to false advertising with that hoopla, but if you check further and read all their documentation, they will tell you that the dynamat is for vibration issues.

[03LightningRocks]

I put 36 square foot of that stuff in all 4 doors of my F250. I was not impressed. It was at this point that I found out I needed a different product for what I was trying to acheive, a sound barrier between me and my noisy arse deisel. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it didn't reduce sound a little bit, but so would a couple hand fulls of insulation shoved in the door. The product is best used in vibration reduction issues. Your spending your money wrong if you are trying to put a sound barrier between you and outside your ride. IMHO

[Silver_2000]

Doug...it stops noise from vibration, not from sounds outside the vehicle. They are real close to false advertising with that hoopla, but if you check further and read all their documentation, they will tell you that the dynamat is for vibration issues.

i wasnt disagreeing

[03LightningRocks]

i wasnt disagreeing

I just wanted to beat the dead horse some more:D .

[Ohmsby]

I put 36 square foot of that stuff in all 4 doors of my F250. I was not impressed. It was at this point that I found out I needed a different product for what I was trying to acheive, a sound barrier between me and my noisy arse deisel. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it didn't reduce sound a little bit, but so would a couple hand fulls of insulation shoved in the door. The product is best used in vibration reduction issues. Your spending your money wrong if you are trying to put a sound barrier between you and outside your ride. IMHO

I am going to get a stereo shop buddy of mine to do a Db level before and after the install. I don't know if it will give any definative answers to the question but it may give us a little in-sight on the use of the product.

According to the sound material guys I should see a great improvement over the stock set-up ( I know they are the ones selling it) but I know that several high end cars use a similar produst to reduce noise in the cabin of the vehicle.

I just hope I have not wasted my money and more importantly my time:hammer:

[Silver_2000]

I put 36 square foot of that stuff in all 4 doors of my F250. I was not impressed. It was at this point that I found out I needed a different product for what I was trying to acheive, a sound barrier between me and my noisy arse deisel. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it didn't reduce sound a little bit, but so would a couple hand fulls of insulation shoved in the door. The product is best used in vibration reduction issues. Your spending your money wrong if you are trying to put a sound barrier between you and outside your ride. IMHO

One thing to consider is that the noise you were hearing may not have been coming thru the doors...

the new fords use "quiet Steel"

which is just a lamination of the same kind of stuff between to really thin sheets of steel - ford gets marketing push AND saves money on steel

[L8 APEX]

I think the quiet steel in only in the 04-up new body F150's. Can someone document quiet steel in the F250? They do insulate the fender liners and pillars pretty well. The main deal is the firewall which is hard to cover. If you had stereo work installed they have have left open penetrations in the firewall. I enjoy the sound of my diesel, but I can understand wanting quiet as well. I think the GM Duramax is the most quiet diesel you can buy. The new Cummins is pretty quiet as well. Cummins use to be the most obnoxious diesel money could buy, I guess they discovered pre-injection finally.

[Tex Arcana]

The main deal is the firewall which is hard to cover.:tu:

[Tex Arcana]

Your talking to the wrong person about being different, You just think different, you dont do it:tongue: .. Unlike most here i have used something different to either the suspension, motor or exhaust, or looks department
So STFU, you know I do it, look at my PCV setup (which works just fine); look at my welded shackles; look at my big brake kit.:hammer:

Just because I haven't done THIS particular mod, doesn't mean I *won't*, especially if I can't think of a way to talk myself out of it. Difference between me and most people, is I THINK IT THRU first, then ask questions, then think some more; and if it seems like it'll work, I do it.

Just because I don't slavishly follow YOUR recommendations like everyone does with Rocks, doesn't mean I'm right or wrong: it just means I'm ME. Maybe we can nickname you "Rocks, Jr." :rll:

[Tex Arcana]

test it - pack some in a tube the same diameter - put a screen on the end of the tube and use a compressor and air gun

I bet the insulation presses down and wads against the screen - blocking air passge

BTW, I figured out the failure mode of this thing (I think of the strangest things while in the shower:rll:):

http://i7.tinypic.com/212bu5l.jpg

Remember that the Dynamat will have exposed adhesive holding the shape of the insulation. On the inside, it'll cup into the cavity, and compress the insulation under it, while the insulation where the air rushes thru will compress some, but will not impede the air. On the outside, it'll peel away, and actually open up the cavity, and let some of the insulation push out, but it won't impede anything.

So, up yours Mike... this'll work just fine. If you're worried about the inside opening, then enlarge it at the top; otherwise, stfu, and do it. :tongue:

[SILVER2000SVT]

:rll: :rll: :rll:

You guys are hilarious...

[Ohmsby]

If I ever build a space rocket I'm hiring all of you:rll: :rll: :rll:

[Mark #2]

If I ever build a space rocket I'm hiring all of you:rll: :rll: :rll:

I am much better at laser guided bombs, radar seeking missiles, and Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided missiles .:D

[dboat]

I am much better at laser guided bombs, radar seeking missiles, and Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided missiles .:D

I want you on my side..:tu:

[Mark #2]

I want you on my side..:tu:

That was my old job, now I make DLP, which was invented out of the same DARPA programs over 20 years ago.

DLP has been around for a very long time, it's just now available to the public at a reasonable cost.

[Tex Arcana]

I am much better at laser guided bombs, radar seeking missiles, and Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided missiles .:D
I was wondering about that item in your resume about Saddam and Iraq... :eek2:

[Mark #2]

I was wondering about that item in your resume about Saddam and Iraq... :eek2:
http://www.ausairpower.net/GBU-28.html

I'm not saying that I worked on it.

[Tex Arcana]

http://www.ausairpower.net/GBU-28.html

I'm not saying that I worked on it.

:rll: And that you'd have to kill us all if you did say?? :rll:

[Mark #2]

:rll: And that you'd have to kill us all if you did say?? :rll:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8004939475654186765

[Tex Arcana]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8004939475654186765
aw, man.. thanks alot, now I gotta go get that damn foundation redone. :(

[Ohmsby]

For what it's worth we did the entire cab. I mean everything with the exception of the dash was out of the truck.

I notice a big difference in road related noises and the exhaust drone is less severe.

No luck with the Db numbers however while the interior was out I decided some new speakers and an amp were needed.

The moral of the story... if the exhaust is too loud just crank the tunes:D

again thanks for the tech advice and the humor...

[tiffo60]

[quote=Ohmsby]
I notice a big difference in road related noises and the exhaust drone is less severe.



did it help with the wind noise any, or just road noise?

[Ohmsby]

yes it seems to reduce the wind noise as well