What's wrong with the green truck?

[Sixpipes]

As some of you know, Ronny's truck gave it up about 15 miles north of Wichita on the way back home from LightningFest IV. I confirmed today that the starter is turning the flex plate yet the crank is not turning. Just curious as to the guesses to what the specific problem is so I am doing a poll. I have listed pics of the flex plate/crank assembly, the crank by itself, and the flex plate by itself. The 6 flex plate bolts are hardened steel.

http://www.f150online.com/galleries/images/211-300-169838.jpg

http://www.f150online.com/galleries/images/211-300-169840.jpg

http://www.f150online.com/galleries/images/211-300-169839.jpg

It should be noted that there was a wheel-hop incident on Friday (only one) that probably put undo stress on the drivetrain, so we expect some sort of destruction when we drop the transmission this weekend and take a look. Weird thing is, the truck quit on the Kansas Turnpike at highway speeds. :cool:

[Silver_2000]

I think its the flex plate simply because I would have thought a broken crank would have caused punctured block

May change my vote since if the plate broke it wouldnt break clean and would make noise when the starter engaged and we didnt hear any of that - more likely the bolts either sheared or backed out

Doug

[Sixpipes]

I think its the flex plate simply because I would have thought a broken crank would have caused punctured block

Doug

I'm thinking the crank broke between #8 & #7 rod. Maybe fractured or cracked and then eventually cracked all the way through. Never heard of it happening that way, but knowing Jordan, it will be something different. :rolleyes:

[Chris94L]

pull all the plugs out and see if its blowing compression out when you crank it over. If the crank broke that should show where.

[Flats Man]

If it sheared the flex plate bolts, there should be stuff on top of the "dust cover." I think if that happened and you hit the starter, you would hear all kinds of noise as the starter tried to engage the flexplate. The cranks are pretty strong in these motors but we don't know the whole history of what that motor has been through! Maybe some NOS in its wilder days. Also, there was a mysterious "knock" in the motor on the morning of the convoy. It needs a little stroker anyway!
I think that if the crank broke, Ronnie would have heard some knocking or worse as he pulled of the road. Did the motor rev up before it quit?

[Chris94L]

I think that if the crank broke, Ronnie would have heard some knocking or worse as he pulled of the road. Did the motor rev up before it quit?

Ronny said that it felt like the transmission slipped as he gave it some gas, so the rpm's went up a little bit so he let off then the check engine light came on and was his first indication that it had died.

[Flats Man]

Ronny said that it felt like the transmission slipped as he gave it some gas, so the rpm's went up a little bit so he let off then the check engine light came on and was his first indication that it had died.

That is the part that has me confused! I can't figure out why the motor just quit! It should have had fuel, air, and ignition!

Here you go Ronnie> http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/category.asp?CtgID=11996

Actually, this kit would be a litte easier on the Powerdyne.
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=9290&CtgID=

[Flats Man]

I thought I would bring this back out on the table!

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

I'm thinking the crank broke between #8 & #7 rod. Maybe fractured or cracked and then eventually cracked all the way through. Never heard of it happening that way, but knowing Jordan, it will be something different. :rolleyes:

I don't know if you and flatsman remember when Mom and Dad were pulling a trailer with the two tone brown Chevy in Florida and the crank broke going up a hill. The crank broke between the 3rd and 4th journal, so the engine (454) kept running but only had power on four cylinders.;)

If the flexplate became detatched from the crank, the engine should wind really quickly, and when he let off the gas is should have stayed running.

[L8 APEX]

The main caps usually keep everything in place when a crank breaks. I think Fred should warranty his engine:D . Pull a few plugs and drop an indicator wire in the cylinder. Turn the crank bolt over and see which cylinders still move up and down.

[Flats Man]

The main caps usually keep everything in place when a crank breaks. I think Fred should warranty his engine:D . Pull a few plugs and drop an indicator wire in the cylinder. Turn the crank bolt over and see which cylinders still move up and down.

That engine was used only to pull my fishing boat on Fridays! That is my story and I am sticking to it!

[REXRENEGADE]

It broke in Kansas because it did not want to travel on the crappy ass road in OKLAHOMA!
:eek:

[Chris94L]

It broke in Kansas because it did not want to travel on the crappy ass road in OKLAHOMA!
:eek:
I know thats right, holy crap OK sucks

[Tex Arcana]

I"m gonna say broken crank, because if the bolts had sheared, you'd hear rattling in the bellhousing as the boltheads rolled about. I'm gonna also say it sheared on the main bearing as well, right by the bolts, because the motor was running when it let go and it didn't crash a rod or piston into the valves.

Just a guess. :tu:

[Mark #2]

I say broken crank because the starter sounds like it is turning over the flywheel normally, but the harmonic balancer doesn't turn.

[Gukimuchi17]

You know when something so good happens you could just-----well trucks have feelings too! A huge thanks to the guys that helped on the long journey home. A big thanks to Terry for the ride in style. It was great meeting many of you & I appreciate your support. I think Dennis & I need to see what the bottom of that engine looks like. (It's the only part I haven't seen)
Brok3n but not defeated!!!!

[Flats Man]

Hey Ronnie, go over to the NLOC at this thread. They have some comments for you! http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/showthread.php?t=135861

http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images_talon/misc/progress.gif

[Highlander540]

You know when something so good happens you could just-----well trucks have feelings too! A huge thanks to the guys that helped on the long journey home. A big thanks to Terry for the ride in style. It was great meeting many of you & I appreciate your support. I think Dennis & I need to see what the bottom of that engine looks like. (It's the only part I haven't seen)
Brok3n but not defeated!!!!


It was nice chatting with you. I am sorry to see your truck is sick. Hope you get her built up even better.

[02BOLT]

You know when something so good happens you could just-----well trucks have feelings too! A huge thanks to the guys that helped on the long journey home. A big thanks to Terry for the ride in style. It was great meeting many of you & I appreciate your support. I think Dennis & I need to see what the bottom of that engine looks like. (It's the only part I haven't seen)
Brok3n but not defeated!!!!

Ronny(or Ronnie?),
Ya'll better hurry up and get on the ball! TALON Fall Classic is right around the corner! Once again man, it was an absolute pleasure having met you this past weekend, and I look forward to hanging out at future events. Welcome to TALON brother.

Now, get some T-bars on that baby, get 'er fixed, and let's go roll that bad boy!:d

Later,
Rob

[Gukimuchi17]

Ronny(or Ronnie?),
Ya'll better hurry up and get on the ball! TALON Fall Classic is right around the corner! Once again man, it was an absolute pleasure having met you this past weekend, and I look forward to hanging out at future events. Welcome to TALON brother.

Now, get some T-bars on that baby, get 'er fixed, and let's go roll that bad boy!:d

Later,
Rob
For sure we'll get it done. This is too much fun to stop now!

[QDRHRSE]

I say the crank snapped clean at one of the journals.

[Ohmsby]

It broke in Kansas because it did not want to travel on the crappy ass road in OKLAHOMA!
:eek:

+1 those roads will beat you.

[Mark #2]

Okay, it only takes about an hour to pull the oil pan(K5 time reference).
Get ur done, we need pics.;)

[Sixpipes]

Okay, it only takes about an hour to pull the oil pan(K5 time reference).
Get ur done, we need pics.;)

You obviously haven't looked under a GenI. It is definitely no K5. :cool:

[Mark #2]

You obviously haven't looked under a GenI. It is definitely no K5. :cool:
I haven't, can you drop the pan without raising the engine?

[Sixpipes]

I haven't, can you drop the pan without raising the engine?

Nope. :hammer: We've decided to go ahead and pull the engine and leave the transmission in place. My 95 engine is sitting in the garage...

http://www.nloc.net/photopost/data/500/medium/e2.jpg

...so Ronny may get that one and I probably will get a forged bottom end for the his 94 block. I've changed my plans for the engine combo for my 95. :evil

[Mark #2]

Nope. :hammer: We've decided to go ahead and pull the engine and leave the transmission in place. My 95 engine is sitting in the garage...

http://www.nloc.net/photopost/data/500/medium/e2.jpg

...so Ronny may get that one and I probably will get a forged bottom end for the his 94 block. I've changed my plans for the engine combo for my 95. :evil

Well that sucks that you can't pull the pan and cool at the same time, you guys are keeping it interesting.

Care to elaborate on the new plans?

[Sixpipes]

Well that sucks that you can't pull the pan and cool at the same time, you guys are keeping it interesting.

Care to elaborate on the new plans?

Power adder x 2 :D

[Mark #2]

Power adder x 2 :D

Okay, I'll guess twin turbos, only because that would be very different on a Gen1, and I don't think you are a N20 guy.

Twin superchargers would be very different too, and I know you have some spares, that would be difficult to engineer, not that it would surprise me if you did it.;)

[Flats Man]

Oh yes he is a N2O kinda guy! I am thinking that he is goiung to cool the charge to the 2.2 KB with it. Before , he was looking at around a 75 shot but I think he is thinking a little more than that if he is going for a forged bottom. I don't think this truck will be Wimpy any more! lol

[Flats Man]

Ronnie, here is another thread that is talking about your truck!
That thing has them buzzing over at NLOC!
http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/showthread.php?t=135800

[Sixpipes]

Started at noon today on pulling the motor...

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/hood_off.JPG

Ronny getting to the upper intake rear bolts...:evil

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/ronny_upper.JPG

By about 3 PM we were ready.

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/ready.JPG

Here she is...

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/extracting.JPG

[Mark #2]

Can't wait for the next pictures, should be interesting. Looks like you guys are getting good at this process.:tu:

[Sixpipes]

Motor out....

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/engine_out.JPG

And the winners are...ding ding ding!

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/flex_plate_II.JPG

dboat (http://www.talonclub.com/forum/member.php?u=238), Flats Man (http://www.talonclub.com/forum/member.php?u=33), Silver_2000 (http://www.talonclub.com/forum/member.php?u=1) Congratulations boys. :D

[02BOLT]

I was thinking that it's pretty rare to snap a factory 351W crank, especially at those power levels, but stranger things have happened. Glad to see that it's nothing internally wrong with the motor. Now, it looks like you guys have some options. Well since it's already out, you may as well......:evil . Decisions...decisions...:burnout:

[Mark #2]

Well my side of the road guess was better than my vote, forgot that the torque converter would hold the flywheel lined up to the starter.

So what is the plan now? I say just a new flywheel if the crank isn't messed up.

[Gukimuchi17]

Well my side of the road guess was better than my vote, forgot that the torque converter would hold the flywheel lined up to the starter.

So what is the plan now? I say just a new flywheel if the crank isn't messed up.
Oh, that would be much too simple! We're working on a plan. The knocking sound prior to Kansas is still some concern. It would be a shame to put it back to find out there are other problems. I leave all the heavy thinking & planning to my master mechanic.:bows

[Flats Man]

It needs a nice Billet Fly Wheel! Glad it wasn't that serious!!!

[Silver_2000]

Thats good news ...

Also happy my trouble shooting skills are still working ... LOL

[Silver_2000]

Talon gets sample of GP

Adobe PSD file is 145 mb for the image ... Biggest I have worked on in years

[L8 APEX]

Wow, hard to believe that would be a silent failure. I was sure it was the crank too. That is some bad wheel hop usually the trans has enough slippage to absorb that:eek2: . Time for an SFI piece anyway.

[Chris94L]

On his last pass where he shredded the blower belt, I heard 3 clanks/knocks when he launched. I wonder if maybe it broke then, and just grabbed on the edges until it just wore them down?

[dboat]

Thanks, but I am more like the old saying, even a blind hog gets an acorn every now and then... :D
Dana


Motor out....

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/engine_out.JPG

And the winners are...ding ding ding!

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/flex_plate_II.JPG

dboat (http://www.talonclub.com/forum/member.php?u=238), Flats Man (http://www.talonclub.com/forum/member.php?u=33), Silver_2000 (http://www.talonclub.com/forum/member.php?u=1) Congratulations boys. :D

[dboat]

Talon gets sample of GP

Adobe PSD file is 145 mb for the image ... Biggest I have worked on in years

I'd like to have me one of them.. not sure how my email is going to handle a 145mb attachement though..:rolleyes:

[Tex Arcana]

Well my side of the road guess was better than my vote, forgot that the torque converter would hold the flywheel lined up to the starter.

So what is the plan now? I say just a new flywheel if the crank isn't messed up.

Yeah, I didn't even think of that, either. I just never figured a flexplate would break like that--then again, I guess the name "flexplate" should be a clue, eh? ;)

Actually, that kind of failure is a bit concerning... are there solutions out there that are stronger without being too much heavier?

[Tex Arcana]

even a blind hog gets an acorn every now and then... :D
Dana

:rll::rll::rll:

[Highlander540]

Glad to see it's not too expensive to fix :)

[dboat]

Yeah, I didn't even think of that, either. I just never figured a flexplate would break like that--then again, I guess the name "flexplate" should be a clue, eh? ;)

Actually, that kind of failure is a bit concerning... are there solutions out there that are stronger without being too much heavier?


I havent heard of it happening very often, so I wouldnt worry about it.. probably has more to do with the age of it, reflecting the wear on the area around the bolts along with the fact that it was a bit rusted and such.. nice thing is that there doesnt appear to be much damage.

Dana

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Wow, hard to believe that would be a silent failure. I was sure it was the crank too. That is some bad wheel hop usually the trans has enough slippage to absorb that:eek2: . Time for an SFI piece anyway.


I can not remember ever seeing a flexplate torn like that before, and I have really been thinking about it:confused:

I am amazed that it did not make any racket when the starter turned it over:rolleyes:

[Sixpipes]

Swapping the roller cam into my 95 block for the flat tappet stock cam. Ronny is ending up with my 95 motor which is in amazing condition I might add. Still has the overlap marks in the cylinder walls.

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/95_front.JPG

Stock cam on top and Hot Rod roller cam on bottom.

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/cams.JPG

Accessories for roller cam set up.

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/roller_lifters.JPG

[SILVER2000SVT]

I had the exact same thing happen on a 76 Camaro one time. I voted the crank because with my experience it rattled like crazy for a while before it wouldn't crank anymore.

[Sixpipes]

Had some issues with the 1.72 Crane roller rockers (BROK3N - :D ) so we went to Lone Star Performance yesterday and got some 1.6 Scorpion roller rockers. Very nice pieces.

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6936.JPG

Spit and polish and a little extra bling and we were ready to go in with my 95 short block.

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/Engine_bling.JPG

Set it in last night and will finish with everything by the end of today...hopefully. :cool:

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/Engine_in.JPG

[Flats Man]

Dang, you Guys are getting good at this! lol Maybe you will be able to quit your day jobs soon and just be Gen 1 experts or something.

[02BOLT]

Nice progress fellas! Looking good!:tu:

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Quote Sixpipes:
Set it in last night and will finish with everything by the end of today...hopefully. http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

Very Impressive work!! It is really hard to live up to two --- make that three urban legends -- I guess that makes me the outcast:bows

[Flats Man]

Ok, I know who the two Urban Legends are but who is the third?

[Highlander540]

Sweet, now I know who to bug with questions when we pull the motor from my sons Gen 1 :d

[Sixpipes]

Sweet, now I know who to bug with questions when we pull the motor from my sons Gen 1 :d

Well, pulling the motor is definitely the easy part. When we installed the motor the first time, we had no fenders or obstructions to hinder our progress. With a lowered truck and no lift, everything becomes difficult. :o

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6948.JPG

As of 10 PM last night we only had a couple of hours of stuff to hook up before we crank it up again. Looks like we'll make the Saturday deadline for Ronny's golf tourney. :D

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Well, pulling the motor is definitely the easy part. When we installed the motor the first time, we had no fenders or obstructions to hinder our progress. With a lowered truck and no lift, everything becomes difficult. :o

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6948.JPG

As of 10 PM last night we only had a couple of hours of stuff to hook up before we crank it up again. Looks like we'll make the Saturday deadline for Ronny's golf tourney. :D

UPDATE??:cool:

[Sixpipes]

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/DSCN6962.JPG

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/DSCN6964.JPG

A couple of pictures taken early this morning at the Turtle Hill golf course. Ronny and I got done last night at 10:15 PM. Had some issues with a used torque converter I picked up on the NLOC board (like not compatible with the Gen I drivetrain). Burned up a starter before we diagnosed the problem. However, the new roller rockers, extrude honed lower, shortblock, and roller cam make the truck run smooth as butter. We had a great turnout at Jordan's Golf Tourney and great weather as well. :cool:

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/dscn6960.jpg

Figured I'd throw in a token pic of Go_rila taken early this morning in the parking lot. :D

[Ohmsby]

Congrats on getting the truck up and running :tu:

1st: I had a great time at the golf tourney everyone seemed to really enjoy themselves and we had chamber of commerce type weather

2nd: I think if we can talk Ronnie into putting the truck up for the hole in one challenge a bunch of Talon guys would show up:d

[Tex Arcana]

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/DSCN6962.JPG

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/DSCN6964.JPG

A couple of pictures taken early this morning at the Turtle Hill golf course. Ronny and I got done last night at 10:15 PM. Had some issues with a used torque converter I picked up on the NLOC board (like not compatible with the Gen I drivetrain). Burned up a starter before we diagnosed the problem. However, the new roller rockers, extrude honed lower, shortblock, and roller cam make the truck run smooth as butter. We had a great turnout at Jordan's Golf Tourney and great weather as well. :cool:

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/dscn6960.jpg

Figured I'd throw in a token pic of Go_rila taken early this morning in the parking lot. :D






I love that hood.. what type is it, and where'd you get it?

[Sixpipes]

I love that hood.. what type is it, and where'd you get it?

Use to be called AAD, but they were purchased by these guys...

http://www.ramairhood.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=31

One of these trucks looks familiar. :)

http://www.ramairhood.com/photo_gallery/ford/f-150/cobra_cowl/cobra_cowl_gallery.htm

[Gukimuchi17]

Congrats on getting the truck up and running :tu:

1st: I had a great time at the golf tourney everyone seemed to really enjoy themselves and we had chamber of commerce type weather

2nd: I think if we can talk Ronnie into putting the truck up for the hole in one challenge a bunch of Talon guys would show up:d

I'm glad you were able to come to the tournament. It was a great day.
As far as a hole in one prize, I guess that would be a good idea but who would pry my cold dead hand off the door handle!

[Ohmsby]

I'm glad you were able to come to the tournament. It was a great day.
As far as a hole in one prize, I guess that would be a good idea but who would pry my cold dead hand off the door handle!


somehow I knew that response was on it's way. Great tournament we plan on attending next year. :tu: