Farmers Branch for/against illegal immigrants tomorrow

[BC Lightning]

Just heard on the news they are voting to not allow illegal immigrants to work and live in farmers branch and make English the official language of the city, hope this passes knana

[RSVT]

Just heard on the news they are voting to not allow illegal immigrants to work and live in farmers branch and make English the official language of the city, hope this passes knana

:nono: :Bullshit :bs im not an immigrant, but thats BS, those people come over to live a better life w/better paying jobs, plus i heard Farmers Branch is like the most races city around here, so what about the Hispanic officials of the city r they gnna loose their jobs also.

[Chris94L]

key word there is ILLEGAL.

[98Cobra]

:nono: :Bullshit :bs im not an immigrant, but thats BS, those people come over to live a better life w/better paying jobs, plus i heard Farmers Branch is like the most races city around here, so what about the Hispanic officials of the city r they gnna loose their jobs also.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&q=immigration+by+the+numbers

Still think we just just fling the door wide open?

[Tex Arcana]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&q=immigration+by+the+numbers

Still think we just just fling the door wide open?

:evil The door is so wide open, not even Rick Perry could close it. :rll: Besides, stopping immigrants would bring the TExas economy to its knees. Watch FB crash and burn when the illegals don't show up for work one day, and everyone's prices triple. :tex:

[98Cobra]

:evil The door is so wide open, not even Rick Perry could close it. :rll: Besides, stopping immigrants would bring the TExas economy to its knees. Watch FB crash and burn when the illegals don't show up for work one day, and everyone's prices triple. :tex:

It can be done - but it will take a leader with more guts to do the right thing than we have had so far. At least Bush is making a start.

And unless my sarcasm-meter is on the blink, do you really thinkFB will come to a screeching halt because of this? I seriously doubt it. I could see a bigger impact if it were somewhere that is still building homes left and right, like say, Frisco - but not the FB.

[Beaudee]

I lived in F.B. for 11 years,i had everything stolen from the power off my roof to my phone tapped by neihbors.Had to have cameras on my house and a 12 ga. handy for security.Used to be a good place to live,nice parks and etc..No offense but its old town mexico now,had to sell my house and move out cause property val. was going down and the hood with it.i had 15 buyers for my house and none could qualify,had to almost give it away.Glad to see someone is trying to clean it up.I am sure council members house will be hit soon like mayor Phelps a bit back.Goodbye and good luck F.B..:banana:

[gagspa]

make English the official language of the city, hope this passes knana
This is just going to start problems. By 2010 over 50% of Texas' population is expected to be hispanic. Granted, many are not legal, but most of them are. If people try banning or making their heritage "illegal" the hispanic community will get more involved. It may take them some time, but the truth is that before long hispanic people will be dominating Texas politics. P*ss them off now and they will get back later.

Of course I speak Spanish and English so I'm not worried either way :D

[Wht95Lightning]

those people come over to live a better life w/better paying jobs

When they start paying taxes and stop getting free health care, that WE are paying for by the way, I might feel differently.

For now though, I believe illegal immigration will eventually bankrupt us. It's imperative that we stem the flow.

[BC Lightning]

This is just going to start problems. By 2010 over 50% of Texas' population is expected to be Hispanic. Granted, many are not legal, but most of them are. If people try banning or making their heritage "illegal" the Hispanic community will get more involved. It may take them some time, but the truth is that before long Hispanic people will be dominating Texas politics. P*ss them off now and they will get back later.

Of course I speak Spanish and English so I'm not worried either way :D

When the news reported the numbers of the marches in downtown Dallas with over 300,000 (not sure of exact number) Hispanics marching, they reported that about 1/4 of that number were actual legal US citizens, and they also reported that polls from the Nov 7 elections were changed only slightly with Hispanic new voters, or how it was a double sided sword when they took the days off from work as protest, and ended up have little or no effect to that days economy

I know they are looking for a "better life" but it makes me mad when my tax money is paying for uninsured child births at Parkland or other county hospitals, when on specific race of children cant speak English in elementary school, when the majority of their paychecks are sent back to Mexico, I went and visited my old High School a couple of years, and they were making the announcements in Spanish

It is bluntly obvious that all they want the economics of America and to get everything else paid for by the Govt, which we as legal citizens pay for with taxes

[BC Lightning]

Like Garrett said, its not about letting immigrants in the country, it needs to be a certain number, the US simply doesn't have the resources to cater to everyone in the world, even though other countries, like Mexico, believe we do. If they really wanted to live the American dream then they should become legal US citizens and take the proper steps, and pay the taxes, insurance, utility bills, etc that all legal US citizens are required to. There will soon be so many that we will not have a water supply to meet the needs of everyone legal or illegal

Just think about the added costs to convert everything into Spanish, if they really wanted a better life shouldn't they be adapting to American ways of life, and not continuing their previous lifestyles, why not allow everybody who comes from an immigrant background speak their original language, I guess I should be speaking in German :rolleyes:

keep in mind no one is talking about immigrants, its the illegal immigrants thats being targeted, since they simply don't pay what is required by legal citizens

think about all of the immigrants that had to pass through Ellis island in the early 20th century to become US citizens

:ron:
When my great great grandfather came to America in the 1870's he spoke 7 different languages, when they were settling in the US he told my great grandfather they were to only speak English so they could be accepted as Americans

[Tex Arcana]

It can be done - but it will take a leader with more guts to do the right thing than we have had so far. At least Bush is making a start.

And unless my sarcasm-meter is on the blink, do you really thinkFB will come to a screeching halt because of this? I seriously doubt it. I could see a bigger impact if it were somewhere that is still building homes left and right, like say, Frisco - but not the FB.

The people you *don't* see that keep things running smoothly--busboys, dishwashers, janitors, gardeners, ditchdiggers, landscapers, poo-shovelers--are mostly illegal mexicans; even McDonlads employs a lion's share of them, as does WalMart. If FB manages to do this, you know as well as I do they will just flat stop working there, in protest. Then the city, McD's, W-M, the restaurants, businesses (oh, yeah: make-ready in dealerships, and carwash employees) will have to hire SOMEONE to take up the slack, which means the business costs for these jobs will about double, and that money has to come from somewhere, so it stands to reason prices will have to rise to cover that. Not to mention all the illegals FB is employing in road repair, etc: they, and the LEGAL mexicans, will all walk off the jobs, and the city itself will grind to a halt.

"making a start" on the border is nothing more than an election-day ploy. We're talking about something on the order of 3000 MILES of open border. At least along the Rio Grande, there's a decent natural barrier; the rest of the way, however, is open land. Any wall built can be scaled; and there isn't the manpower available to police a wall (unless you hire illegals :evil). It costs ALOT of money to build such, and to maintain it; and when it all over and done with, we'll find a wall won't stop hardly anyone, and then we citizens will get bored with it, or tired of spending extra for our Big Macs, and will demand the money go elsewhere; and the wall will crumble into dust while the illegals crawl over the ruins and keep on coming.

To be honest, I'm almost to the point of agreeing with the ROman Empire on this issue: COME ON IN!! Anyone's welcome, as long as you abide by the rules and speak the language. If you're working toward the good of Rome (US), and you're not using your money for illegal purposes or commiting crimes, come on down and join us.

Don't forget, folk: we are ALL immigrants. And some of our ancestors were "illegal" immigrants as well. ;)

[Tex Arcana]

Like Garrett said, its not about letting immigrants in the country, it needs to be a certain number, the US simply doesn't have the resources to cater to everyone in the world, even though other countries, like Mexico, believe we do. If they really wanted to live the American dream then they should become legal US citizens and take the proper steps, and pay the taxes, insurance, utility bills, etc that all legal US citizens are required to. There will soon be so many that we will not have a water supply to meet the needs of everyone legal or illegal

Just think about the added costs to convert everything into Spanish, if they really wanted a better life shouldn't they be adapting to American ways of life, and not continuing their previous lifestyles, why not allow everybody who comes from an immigrant background speak their original language, I guess I should be speaking in German :rolleyes:

keep in mind no one is talking about immigrants, its the illegal immigrants thats being targeted, since they simply don't pay what is required by legal citizens

think about all of the immigrants that had to pass through Ellis island in the early 20th century to become US citizens

:ron:
When my great great grandfather came to America in the 1870's he spoke 7 different languages, when they were settling in the US he told my great grandfather they were to only speak English so they could be accepted as Americans

My ancestors (well, half of 'em) were GErman descent, which made WW1 and WW2 a really fun time for them. :rolleyes: Up until my generation, tho, they managed to keep speaking German within the family.

I agree with you, tho: "illegal" is the problem. I like the idea of setting up a work program that will allow them to work legally here; but the problem with THAT is the legal hispanics that assist illegals, in getting papers, green cards, and other family members, even social security numbers. THOSE are the ones who are making things worse, to be honest, because they are perpetuating the problem, and using the "protests" as cover for thier activities.

Good call on the water issue, too: I forgot about that. Imagine how much worse the problem is in Mexico. :eek:

[SIL02SVT]

The people you *don't* see that keep things running smoothly--busboys, dishwashers, janitors, gardeners, ditchdiggers, landscapers, poo-shovelers--are mostly illegal mexicans; even McDonlads employs a lion's share of them, as does WalMart. If FB manages to do this, you know as well as I do they will just flat stop working there, in protest. Then the city, McD's, W-M, the restaurants, businesses (oh, yeah: make-ready in dealerships, and carwash employees) will have to hire SOMEONE to take up the slack, which means the business costs for these jobs will about double, and that money has to come from somewhere, so it stands to reason prices will have to rise to cover that. Not to mention all the illegals FB is employing in road repair, etc: they, and the LEGAL mexicans, will all walk off the jobs, and the city itself will grind to a halt.

"making a start" on the border is nothing more than an election-day ploy. We're talking about something on the order of 3000 MILES of open border. At least along the Rio Grande, there's a decent natural barrier; the rest of the way, however, is open land. Any wall built can be scaled; and there isn't the manpower available to police a wall (unless you hire illegals :evil). It costs ALOT of money to build such, and to maintain it; and when it all over and done with, we'll find a wall won't stop hardly anyone, and then we citizens will get bored with it, or tired of spending extra for our Big Macs, and will demand the money go elsewhere; and the wall will crumble into dust while the illegals crawl over the ruins and keep on coming.

To be honest, I'm almost to the point of agreeing with the ROman Empire on this issue: COME ON IN!! Anyone's welcome, as long as you abide by the rules and speak the language. If you're working toward the good of Rome (US), and you're not using your money for illegal purposes or commiting crimes, come on down and join us.

Don't forget, folk: we are ALL immigrants. And some of our ancestors were "illegal" immigrants as well. ;)
Not if we build a chainlink fence about 12 foot high with razor wire on it, Then ontop of that put about 10k volts through it once they see carlos or juan frying i think they will turn around and go back. IMO... I'm not racist i think we could all get along and live in harmony if they would just quit cheating the system if they were legal and paid taxes alot of white people wouldnt' have problems with them.

[Lyfisin]

The people you *don't* see that keep things running smoothly--busboys, dishwashers, janitors, gardeners, ditchdiggers, landscapers, poo-shovelers--are mostly illegal mexicans; even McDonlads employs a lion's share of them, as does WalMart.

Maybe someone can help me understand something here. I'm from Indiana originally (stop laughing!!) and as far as I know there wasn't an illegal alien problem there. We still had people doing all of those jobs and the prices at the McDonalds were the same there as they are here.

So would the cost of the goods really go up that much or would the profits of these companies just shrink some?

[98Cobra]

Maybe someone can help me understand something here. I'm from Indiana originally (stop laughing!!) and as far as I know there wasn't an illegal alien problem there. We still had people doing all of those jobs and the prices at the McDonalds were the same there as they are here.

So would the cost of the goods really go up that much or would the profits of these companies just shrink some?


Right! Must not be any car washes, fast food places, etc up there. The whole "they do the jobs that Americans dont want" argument is BS. Has anyone asked?

If I have to pay DOUBLE what a head of lettuce costs, I say go for it. Even if prices go up, it might be a bitter pill to swallow up front, but we would be better off in the long run.

[Tex Arcana]

Not if we build a chainlink fence about 12 foot high with razor wire on it, Then ontop of that put about 10k volts through it once they see carlos or juan frying i think they will turn around and go back. IMO... I'm not racist i think we could all get along and live in harmony if they would just quit cheating the system if they were legal and paid taxes alot of white people wouldnt' have problems with them.

Hell, they'd toss a few on the fence to short it out, then cut it with wirecutters and off they go... :d

I agree; and what really chaps me is that their own people will actually make a living off them with unground railroads and a booming fake green card business--then turn around a "protest" against our alleged "human rights" violations, when what they do is as bad or worse than us just talking about closing the border. :hammer::hammer::throw:

[Tex Arcana]

Maybe someone can help me understand something here. I'm from Indiana originally (stop laughing!!) and as far as I know there wasn't an illegal alien problem there. We still had people doing all of those jobs and the prices at the McDonalds were the same there as they are here.

So would the cost of the goods really go up that much or would the profits of these companies just shrink some?

Right, and that's because a majority of illegals stick close to the border, I'm sure partially because it's close to home, but partially too that it's easier to get a job in an area where alot of "nudge, nudge, wink wink" hiring goes on.

And I do believe that costs would go up fairly significantly, since the majority of ANY business' costs are labor, and those running them certainly don't want to cut into THEIR OWN salaries. :rolleyes:


Right! Must not be any car washes, fast food places, etc up there. The whole "they do the jobs that Americans dont want" argument is BS. Has anyone asked?

If I have to pay DOUBLE what a head of lettuce costs, I say go for it. Even if prices go up, it might be a bitter pill to swallow up front, but we would be better off in the long run.

Of course they do jobs that these angst-riddled self-entitled Amurikin teens won't do: I read an article a while back about a Vermont dairy farm, where the owner couldn't keep anyone in a job longer than a week, because the "white" boys just couldn't cut it; he wanted more than the two mexicans (legal, green-carded) he had, becasue they were so willing AND hard-working. And I can attest to this, too: of all the workers that have come thru here in this little extension project of mine, besides the builder, his son and friend, the only ones who worked relatively hard were the Mexicans they hired from the Juan-in-the-Box in Plano and McKinney. :rolleyes:

To a certain extent, tho, I agree: the healthiest economy is the one where money flows freely throughout all levels; it does our economy no good when most of what gets paid to the workers ends up in Mexico and never gets taxed, while they avail themselves of our government services. On the other hand, tho, when the prices of lettuce, beef, milk, eggs, beans, carrots, orange juice, Milky Ways, furniture, clothing, tools, Scotch Tape, webhosting, electricity, natural gas, gasoline, potato chips, and anything else where cheap labor is used to get things done all double at about the same time, you'll feel the pinch HARD, as will countless other people; and when that happens, spending grinds to a HALT, and the economy starts to teeter, and eventually crashes if something isn't done to jumpstart spending again.

[Lyfisin]

And I do believe that costs would go up fairly significantly, since the majority of ANY business' costs are labor, and those running them certainly don't want to cut into THEIR OWN salaries. :rolleyes:


But what I was saying was that costs don't seem to have gone up. I'm not sure what you're saying here.

BTW, I really can't think of any car washes in Indiana that are like what's out here. My home town is like 16,000 people (suburb of Indianapolis) and all we had were the drive thru kind that blow dry it off at the end. That and the quarter ones. At least that's all I remember. Winter's are long and bad up there. Dana, are there car washes like down here in PA?

We did have plenty of ditch diggers, busboys, and janitors. Most people took care of their own yard or payed young teenagers to mow. I was one of them way back. :tongue:

[Tex Arcana]

But what I was saying was that costs don't seem to have gone up. I'm not sure what you're saying here.

BTW, I really can't think of any car washes in Indiana that are like what's out here. My home town is like 16,000 people (suburb of Indianapolis) and all we had were the drive thru kind that blow dry it off at the end. That and the quarter ones. At least that's all I remember. Winter's are long and bad up there. Dana, are there car washes like down here in PA?

We did have plenty of ditch diggers, busboys, and janitors. Most people took care of their own yard or payed young teenagers to mow. I was one of them way back. :tongue:

It's numbers, really: when you have alot of people willing to work cheap at menial/dirty jobs, they are the ones who take them over those who would do them if they had to, but would rather not.

[gagspa]

The problem is not really with the illegals, it is with the people that hire them.

Put yourself in their shoes: You know that you can sneak across the border into Mexico and make $1,000,000/year tax free. If you get caught you might spend a month or two in jail (being fed and housed for free) before they send you back. Then all you do is turn around and come back again. Most of us would do the same thing. The only way to stop them from coming is to stop offering the jobs. As long as they know that the money is here, they will keep coming over. But if they can't get a job once they get here then they will stop coming. Why do we not sneak into Mexico? Because we probably won't find work that will pay enough to justify the change and risk.

The only way to keep the jobs out of their hands is by hitting the employers HARD. Hit them with $50,000 fines for each illegal employed and/or jail time and see how long they keep hiring them. Before long the employer will realize that it is cheaper to employ legals. And I'm not just talking about big companies either.

[dboat]

But what I was saying was that costs don't seem to have gone up. I'm not sure what you're saying here.

BTW, I really can't think of any car washes in Indiana that are like what's out here. My home town is like 16,000 people (suburb of Indianapolis) and all we had were the drive thru kind that blow dry it off at the end. That and the quarter ones. At least that's all I remember. Winter's are long and bad up there. Dana, are there car washes like down here in PA?

We did have plenty of ditch diggers, busboys, and janitors. Most people took care of their own yard or payed young teenagers to mow. I was one of them way back. :tongue:

Brook, Erie County, PA has a population of around 280,000.. the percentage of minorities in this county is about 10%.. so you dont see hardly any of them anywhere.. so its mostly white folks doing everything.. but with an entitlement attitude left over from the steel mill/labor union days.

Dana

[Tatom Mack]

To be honest, I'm almost to the point of agreeing with the ROman Empire on this issue: COME ON IN!! Anyone's welcome, as long as you abide by the rules and speak the language. If you're working toward the good of Rome (US), and you're not using your money for illegal purposes or commiting crimes, come on down and join us.

but they dont speak our language and look at the warrant list for mckinney all mexicans. also there was a program on tv the other mexicos unemployment rate was 0

[BC Lightning]

heard this on Sirius radio:

If China can build a fence separating them from North Korea in 4 days with 100 soldiers after the 1st Nuclear testing, why hasn't the US been able to build something to separate US from Mexico, with all of the labor (legal or illegal), machinery, ditch witches, augers it seems like it wouldn't take any time at all, but I guess it has to be talked about for 10 years before action takes place

[Tex Arcana]

but they dont speak our language and look at the warrant list for mckinney all mexicans. also there was a program on tv the other mexicos unemployment rate was 0

That's part of my point, and the point of others: time to enforce what's there, and make sure they learn the language and pay their share.

Mexico's unemployment might be zero, but the place is so screwed up that they don't want to stay there if they don't have to; otherwise they wouldn't be HERE sucking up the money and funnelling it down there.

[Tex Arcana]

heard this on Sirius radio:

If China can build a fence separating them from North Korea in 4 days with 100 soldiers after the 1st Nuclear testing, why hasn't the US been able to build something to separate US from Mexico, with all of the labor (legal or illegal), machinery, ditch witches, augers it seems like it wouldn't take any time at all, but I guess it has to be talked about for 10 years before action takes place

A fence ain't gonna cut it; it's GOT to be a WALL. The Chinese built a thousands-mile-long wall in, what, a couple hundred years using forced labor?? Maybe we can round up the mexicans, pin a paper bean on their lapels, and use them as forced labor to build the Great Wall of Bush?? :hammer: :tex:

[98Cobra]

A fence ain't gonna cut it; it's GOT to be a WALL. The Chinese built a thousands-mile-long wall in, what, a couple hundred years using forced labor?? Maybe we can round up the mexicans, pin a paper bean on their lapels, and use them as forced labor to build the Great Wall of Bush?? :hammer: :tex:

Or maybe we should surrender, and just let them all flood in at once. I hated making a decent living wage anyway.

Did you watch the video I posted earlier in this thread? Any comments on the math there?

[Lyfisin]

Brook, Erie County, PA has a population of around 280,000.. the percentage of minorities in this county is about 10%.. so you dont see hardly any of them anywhere.. so its mostly white folks doing everything.. but with an entitlement attitude left over from the steel mill/labor union days. Dana

What I was wondering was, are there any or many car washes that have people come out and actually dry off your car after it goes through the tunnel? In Indy, I don't remember even seeing one and I'm thinking it wouldn't be a very good business through the winter. You'd have to pay the labor and likely have not too much business.

[dboat]

What I was wondering was, are there any or many car washes that have people come out and actually dry off your car after it goes through the tunnel? In Indy, I don't remember even seeing one and I'm thinking it wouldn't be a very good business through the winter. You'd have to pay the labor and likely have not too much business.

Oh, sorry, we have at least three of them in town.

Dana

[Lyfisin]

Thanks Dana. I guess my humble town wasn't big enough to rate one. :tongue:

[Silver_2000]

What I was wondering was, are there any or many car washes that have people come out and actually dry off your car after it goes through the tunnel? In Indy, I don't remember even seeing one and I'm thinking it wouldn't be a very good business through the winter. You'd have to pay the labor and likely have not too much business.

Just the opposite

THe car washes make ALL thier money in the winter - too cold to wash it yourself and HAVE To wash it to get salt off
:ron:
When I was teenager I managed the Delta Sonic (http://www.deltasoniccarwash.com/)car wash in town
It would be 5 degrees - the water from the pressure washer would freeze in big piles where the mist settled - You couldnt wear enough clothes to keep warm and dry ...

[Lyfisin]

That sounds pretty miserable.

It surprising about the weather when I see the car places here just jammed with people on really nice days. And seeing so many filthy cars in Indy because the streets covered in slush so often.

I can definately see your point though assuming you cared about your car. I'm not sure my '65 Buick LeSabre ever got many baths whether it was warm outside or not. :) It's not hard to figure out why there's so many rust buckets up there.

Do the northern states still use salt?

[Tex Arcana]

Or maybe we should surrender, and just let them all flood in at once. I hated making a decent living wage anyway.

Did you watch the video I posted earlier in this thread? Any comments on the math there?
No, I can't with this crap internet, it shuts down part way thru when the connection goes bye-bye. :hammer:

Cliff's Notes?

[98Cobra]

No, I can't with this crap internet, it shuts down part way thru when the connection goes bye-bye. :hammer:

Cliff's Notes?

I dont think I could do it justice. He has a graph, for godsakes. :)

Website is here though, but it is pretty busy - looks like hours of reading.

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

[charlie]

Call me stupid..... But I don't get it. Official language, well duh! English, has been from the start, should be till the end. (it's an English speaking country)

Kick out the illegals..... Well duh! Chris said it all ILLEGAL!

Illegal is just that, Illegal. If you let that go, what next?

Lots of illegals to ship back to where they came from a problem,,,,,, sure it is. Not impossible!

We (not illegals) need to stand up and speak up. The politicians need to do there jobs. Will that happen? Probably not. But thats what there counting on.

Charlie

[Tex Arcana]

Call me stupid..... But I don't get it. Official language, well duh! English, has been from the start, should be till the end. (it's an English speaking country)

Kick out the illegals..... Well duh! Chris said it all ILLEGAL!



Illegal is just that, Illegal. If you let that go, what next?

Lots of illegals to ship back to where they came from a problem,,,,,, sure it is. Not impossible!

We (not illegals) need to stand up and speak up. The politicians need to do there jobs. Will that happen? Probably not. But thats what there counting on.

Charlie

There was no "official" language until Bush signed some bill 'til recently, like last week?

[99WhiteBeast]

If amnesty is granted to the illegal’s say good buy to our Health Care system as it will flooded and over burdened.

I don’t think a wall can be built and policed that will keep them out. The key is somehow improving their economy in Mexico so they will want to stay. Tall order but I don't see any other way to stem the tide that is coming over.

Not all their monies go back across the border- ever been out on a Sunday afternoon at the mall or Walmart- who’s dropping the coin then???

[dboat]

Just the opposite

THe car washes make ALL thier money in the winter - too cold to wash it yourself and HAVE To wash it to get salt off
:ron:
When I was teenager I managed the Delta Sonic (http://www.deltasoniccarwash.com/)car wash in town
It would be 5 degrees - the water from the pressure washer would freeze in big piles where the mist settled - You couldnt wear enough clothes to keep warm and dry ...


The Delta Sonic car wash here is the nicest one in town.. and you are right, I think those kids out there are freezing during the winter.. and its one popular place to go..

Dana

[BC Lightning]

There was no "official" language until Bush signed some bill 'til recently, like last week?

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_lang.html

Many people are surprised to learn that the United States has no official language. As one of the major centers of commerce and trade, and a major English-speaking country, many assume that English is the country's official language. But despite efforts over the years, the United States has no official language.
Almost every session of Congress, an amendment (http://www.usconstitution.net/constamprop.html) to the Constitution is proposed in Congress to adopt English as the official language of the United States. Other efforts have attempted to take the easier route of changing the U.S. Code to make English the official language. As of this writing, the efforts have not been successful.
Here is the text of a proposed amendment. This particular bill was introduced in the House of Representatives as H.J. Res. 16 (107th Congress):
The English language shall be the official language of the United States. As the official language, the English language shall be used for all public acts including every order, resolution, vote, or election, and for all records and judicial proceedings of the Government of the United States and the governments of the several States.
Also introduced in the 107th Congress was this text from H.R. 3333:
The Government of the United States shall preserve and enhance the role of English as the official language of the United States of America. Unless specifically stated in applicable law, no person has a right, entitlement, or claim to have the Government of the United States or any of its officials or representatives act, communicate, perform or provide services, or provide materials in any language other than English. If exceptions are made, that does not create a legal entitlement to additional services in that language or any language other than English.
Often these bills are in response to legislation recognizing non-English languages in public discourse of some kind. H.R. 3333, for example, also explicitly repealed the Bilingual Education Act which authorized funds to educate American students if their native tongue as well as to provide specialized training in the learning of English.
The most recent efforts to promote English as the official language has come as more and more immigration from Spanish-speaking and Eastern nations (such as China and Vietnam) has brought an influx of non-English speakers to the United States. According to the 1990 Census (http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/language/table1.txt), 13.8 percent of U.S. residents speak some non-English language at home. 2.9 percent, or 6.7 million people, did not speak English at all, or could not speak it well.
The ACLU (http://www.aclu.org/), which is part of a group opposed to establishing a national official language, has published a paper (http://www.aclu.org/library/pbp6.html) detailing reasons that such a move should be opposed. It starts by mentioning an effort by John Adams, in 1780, to establish an official academy devoted to English, a move which was rejected at the time as undemocratic. The ACLU notes past efforts at English-only laws that abridged the rights of non-English speakers or which generally made life difficult for large non-English speaking populations. One example cited in Dade County, Florida, where, after a 1980 English-only law was passed, Spanish signs on public transportation were removed.
The ACLU believes that English-only laws can violate the U.S. Constitution's protection of due process (especially in courts where no translation service would be offered) and equal protection (for example, where English-only ballots would be used where bilingual ones were available in the past).
English-only proponents like U.S. English (http://www.us-english.org/) counter that English-only laws generally have exceptions for public safety and health needs. They note that English-only laws help governments save money by allowing publication of official documents in a single language, saving on translation and printing costs, and that English-only laws promote the learning of English by non-English speakers. One example offered is that of Canada, with two official languages, English and French. The Canadian government itself has addressed this issue (http://www.pch.gc.ca/offlangoff/publications/mythes/english/mythes.html#2), noting that in 1996-7, only 260 million Canadian dollars were spent on bilingual services.

There has been at least one interesting contrast to the pro-English efforts. In 1923, Illinois officially declared that English would no longer be the official language of Illinois - but American would be. Many of Illinois' statutes refer to "the American language," (example: 225 ILCS 705/27.01) though the official language of the state is now English (5 ILCS 460/20). According to U.S. English (http://www.us-english.org/), the following states have existing official language laws on their books: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wyoming. A small handful date back more than a few decades, such as Louisiana (1811) and Nebraska (1920), but most official language statutes were passed since the 1970's.

[BC Lightning]

http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/index.html

Why Official English?
President Theodore Roosevelt once said, "We have one language here, and that is the English language, and we intend to see that the [assimilation] crucible turns our people out as Americans."
Today America's linguistic unity, which enabled the melting-pot crucible to forge one nation out of millions of immigrants from all over the world, is under attack as never before. Record numbers of non-English speaking immigrants threaten to overwhelm the assimilative process. And instead of encouraging new immigrants to acquire the English fluency needed to succeed in our society, the policy of our government is to promote "diversity" (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/13166/13166.html)by operating in ever growing numbers of foreign languages.
This multilingualism is causing a growing underclass, which is segregated and walled off into linguistic ghettos. A century ago such immigrant ghettos were marked by extreme poverty, 80-hour workweeks and child labor. As the industrial revolution matured, immigrants discovered that language skills were the key to entering the emerging "middle class." This, coupled with mandatory public education and reduced immigration, resulted in the successful assimilation of ethnic communities into American society.
But today, in segregated classrooms, so-called "bilingual education" (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/education/beindex.html) keeps immigrant children from learning English, by teaching them in foreign languages. And millions of people cannot find good-paying jobs, because they lack the ability to speak English with customers, co-workers or employers.
Alarmed by these developments, 28 states have enacted laws makingEnglish their official language (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/states.html); often by passing citizens initiatives with vote margins as high as 9-1.
Opponents of making English the official language charge that it is "anti-immigrant," or that it is merely symbolic and therefore unnecessary. These charges are false.
Learning to speak English empowers immigrants. By more than 2-1 immigrants themselves say the U.S. should expect new immigrants to learn English (1) (http://www.proenglish.org/resources/polls.html) and by a 9-1 margin Hispanic immigrants believe learning English is essential to succeed in the U.S. (2) (http://www.proenglish.org/resources/polls.html)
Official English doesn't mean "English only." (http://www.proenglish.org/notenglishonly.html) None of the 28 states with official English laws prohibit government agencies from using another languages when there is a compelling public interest for doing so. These include: protecting public health and safety, assuring equality before the law, promoting tourism, teaching foreign languages, providing for national defense, and many other legitimate, common sense needs.
Having English as our official language simply means that for the government to act officially, it must communicate in English. It means the language of record is the English language, and that no one has a right to demand government services in any other language.
Official English would also reinforce America's historic message to new immigrants - that we expect them to learn English as the first step in their assimilation -- and that we are committed to ensuring that all Americans share in the economic, social and political benefits of having a common language. (http://www.proenglish.org/main/gen-info.htm)
(http://www.proenglish.org/main/gen-info.htm)
Defending Official EnglishProEnglish supports legislation to clarify that English shall be our official language, such asHR 997 (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/997.html) by Steve King (R-IA). ProEnglish also has fought in the courts to defend states (http://www.proenglish.org/legal/utah/utah.html)' official-English laws, and employers' English workplace (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/workplace/rds/rds.html)policies.
Often, we must fight our battles in the courts and legislatures simultaneously. For instance, ProEnglish is combating an Executive Order (E.O. 13166) (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/13166/13166.html) which establishes as a civil right the ability to demand services in any foreign language. At the same time we are supporting H.R. 136 (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/136.html)to rescind E.O. 13166, we are suing in a federal court (http://www.proenglish.org/legal/bush/bushsuit.html)to overturn it.

Official English Resources
Ten Reasons (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/10reasons.htm) Why We Should Make English the Official Language
ProEnglish's draft official-English bill (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/modellegislation.html) (for legislators seeking to introduce official English legislation)
Official English (http://www.proenglish.org/news/oenews.html) news archive
Member Dan Pak argues to Use English to Unite All Americans (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/danpak.html)
Our congressional testimony (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/testimony.html), concerning Executive Order 13166,
on providing access to people with Limited English Proficiency
(a summary of our argument.)
State profiles page (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/states.html), featuring an interactive map with demographics and official English laws
State-by-state data (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/census.html) showing the rapid increase in numbers of those who don't speak English.
The 50 most common minority languages (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/languages.htm) in America.
52 other nations (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/worldoffeng.htm) have made English their official language.
The official status of languages in other nations (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/worldlanguages.htm).
The most common languages (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/languagestates.htm) in each of the states.
Where in America other languages are spoken (ranked by number of speakers (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/languagenumbers.htm),
or percentage of population (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/languagepercentages.htm) which speaks that language.)
Famous quotes (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/quotes.html) concerning the need for our common language
Petition (http://www.proenglish.org/main/petition.html)endorsing English as an official language
Sample resolution (http://www.proenglish.org/main/resolution.html)endorsing English as an official language

Legislation
Federal (http://www.proenglish.org/resources/legislation.html) legislation pending
Information on HR 997 (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/997.html), the English Language Unity Act of 2006
Information on S 557 (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/557.html), Senate bill to rescind EO 13166, concerning persons with Limited English
Information on HR 136 (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/136.html), House bill to rescind EO 13166, concerning persons with Limited English
Information on HR 4408 (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/4408.html), the National Language Act of 2006
Information on the Inhofe and Salazar amendments (http://www.proenglish.org/immigrationbill.html) regarding English to the Senate immigration bill
Research and contact your congressmen at our Legislative Action Center (http://www.proenglish.org/legislative.html)
ProEnglish's draft official-English bill (http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/modellegislation.html) (for legislators seeking to introduce official English legislation)
Link to Thomas (http://thomas.loc.gov/), the Library of Congress' legislative database **

[Wht95Lightning]

The key is somehow improving their economy in Mexico so they will want to stay

They already have it made. They come here, get jobs, don't pay taxes, get free healthcare, kids go to school for free, and the parents send boxes of cash to relatives back in ol' mexico that either helps them pay to be smuggled over the border or funds god knows what illegal activity.
Why would they want to change anything? :flaming:

[Sixpipes]

They already have it made. They come here, get jobs, don't pay taxes, get free healthcare, kids go to school for free, and the parents send boxes of cash to relatives back in ol' mexico that either helps them pay to be smuggled over the border or funds god knows what illegal activity.
Why would they want to change anything? :flaming:

+1 :mad:

[BC Lightning]

It passed, taken from Farmers Branch's website

City Council approves resolution on illegal immigration

The Farmers Branch City Council unanimously approved a resolution in their regular meeting Tuesday night, September 5, urging federal elected officials to act promptly in passing comprehensive immigration reform. Mayor Bob Phelps said the resolution has been sent to President George W. Bush, U.S. Senators John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchison along with the rest of the Texas Congressional delegation. He added that copies of the resolution have also been sent to the City Councils of every municipality in the State of Texas, members of Community College Boards and the Boards of Trustees of every Texas school district.



http://www.ci.farmers-branch.tx.us/Communication/Resolution%202006-099.doc

CITY OF FARMERS BRANCH
RESOLUTION NO. 2006-099


A RESOLUTION IMPLORING AND URGING PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AND THE UNITED STATES SENATE AND THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES (CONGRESS) TO STRONGLY ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY ACT, TITLE 8 USC 1101-1536 IMMIGRATION (THE ACT) AND TO APPROVE INTO LAW THIS FALL OF 2006 ANY AMENDMENTS NECESSARY TO FURTHER ADDRESS OUR CITIZENS’ CONCERNS ABOUT THE NEGATIVE IMPACT OUR POROUS BORDERS ARE HAVING ON OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN OUR CITIES AND IN OUR STATES AND NATION.


WHEREAS, our country was founded on the basic principle that we were a country of laws, not of men, and the absolute necessity to both obey and respect the law; and

WHEREAS, these principles of government and being a good citizen have been adhered to since our independence was declared on July 4, 1776, with the stirring words of our Declaration of Independence, the final ratification of the United States Constitution in 1789, and the Bill of Rights in 1791, and we have passed these principles on to each generation, and particularly to our school children; and

WHEREAS, the Immigrations and Nationality Act, Section United States Code Title 8 USC 1101-1536, the “Immigration Act,” amended substantially in 1986 and 1996, has throughout our history been and continues to be one of our country’s most important laws, virtually any country’s most important laws, as it relates directly to the security of our borders, the security of the country, and our only means by which we can reasonably assure our citizens that those coming into our country from other countries are good citizens who will be loyal to this country and respect the Rule of Law and contribute to the overall welfare of our citizens and this country; and

WHEREAS, in the last ten (10) or more years, the Immigration Act has not been strongly enforced and literally millions of individuals have come into our country in flagrant violation of the Immigration Act, most of the illegal aliens coming in across our most southerly border; and

WHEREAS, consequently, the border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California have been impacted the most from this influx of illegal aliens, which has been estimated in the millions, the great majority of whom reside in the border states; and

WHEREAS, it has been estimated that there are currently hundreds of illegal aliens living in the City of Farmers Branch; and

WHEREAS, our country’s open, porous borders are a clear threat to our national security, which threat was heightened significantly after 9/11; and

WHEREAS, the citizens of this state and nation and the citizens of the City of Farmers Branch are concerned, worried, upset, frustrated, and downright mad that President Bush and the Executive Branch of the United States government has and is totally failing in the enforcement of the Immigration Act as it relates to the influx of illegal aliens; and

WHEREAS, the citizens of Farmers Branch are just as concerned that our legislative delegation has been unable to assert itself enough to result in the Executive Branch carrying out its sworn responsibilities to enforce the Immigration Act; and

WHEREAS, if the Executive Branch and our legislative delegation believe the current Immigration Act is inadequate to address the problems of millions of illegal, undocumented aliens in our country, then Congress should set aside its partisan differences, its sectional differences, its philosophical differences, its concerns about the upcoming elections, and agree on amendments to the immigration law that are needed and that will enable the Executive Branch to address the issues; and

WHEREAS, our local citizens are worried and concerned about the impact of illegal aliens on our national security, crime rates, illicit drug trade, the negative impacts on property values, public schools, Parkland, our public hospital, taxes, welfare costs, and other potential major problems, all as reflected in the attachment to this resolution, which represents a small percentage of the letters and e-mails received at City Hall relative to this issue; and

WHEREAS, even though the issues are complex, the underlying important principle is the necessity in this country to obey and respect the laws, the Rule of Law, and that is not what is happening and is not what has been happening in this country for at least the last ten (10) years; and

WHEREAS, as witnessed by the letters and e-mails, the citizens of Farmers Branch, due to the inaction of the Executive and Legislative Branch of our Federal Government to enforce the Immigration Act, are imploring, urging, and demanding their City Council to enact its own laws to help in the enforcement of the Immigration Act; and

WHEREAS, the City of Farmers Branch’s City Council is not only sympathetic to the pleas of its citizens, but is in agreement with the major concerns expressed and is, consequently, carefully reviewing the role the City can take to help support and enforce the United States immigration laws and will in the near future, unless President Bush and the Executive Branch takes positive and meaningful steps to enforce the immigration law, and unless Congress moves forward this Fall to approve meaningful legislation, legislation that will assist the Executive Branch in enforcing the law, out of absolute necessity brought about by the inaction of our federal government, take whatever steps it legally can to respond to the legitimate concerns of our citizens about the utter breakdown and failure of the United States government to enforce immigration laws.

Section 1: That all matters in the above recited preamble are found to be true and correct and are incorporated into the body of this resolution as if copied in their entirety.

Section 2: (A) That the City Council of the City of Farmers Branch urges and implores President Bush and the Executive Branch to commence immediately to enforce our immigration laws and address the serious problem of the breakdown of the Rule of Law in this country as it relates to the millions of illegal aliens within our boundaries.

(B) That the United States Congress and particularly our Congressional delegation from the State of Texas, the Honorable Kay Bailey Hutchison, the Honorable John Cornyn, members of the United States Senate and all of the Honorable members of Congress representing the State of Texas, exert all of their combined wisdom, strength, influence, and dedication to the Rule of Law to see that a meaningful amended “Immigration Act” is approved during the Fall of 2006 that addresses the many concerns of the citizens of Farmers Branch and of this state and nation.

Section 3: That a copy of this resolution with an accompanying letter signed by the Mayor and each member of the Farmers Branch City Council be sent to the Honorable George W. Bush, President of the United States, to the Honorable Congressional Delegation of the State of Texas, to Mayors and City Councils of each city in the State of Texas, and to the President and members of the Board of Trustees of every School District in the State of Texas.



PASSED AND APPROVED THIS ________ DAY OF ____________, 2006.





____________________________ ________________________
Mayor Bob Phelps Mayor Pro Tem
Ben Robinson



_____________________________ _________________________
Deputy Mayor Pro Tem Councilman Charlie Bird
Tim O’Hare



_____________________________ _________________________
Councilman Bill Moses Councilman Jim Smith



ATTEST:


_______________________________
City Secretary, Cindee Peters



APPROVED AS TO FORM


_______________________________
City Attorney, John F. Boyle, Jr.

[sonicbluetommy]

Personally I think if you come here learn to speak english.....PERIOD!
But I think this language crap is a mute point.

Give them 2 generations, sometimes 1 and the kids/grandkids won't hardly be able to speak thier parents/grandparents native tongue. I know several people (legal immegrants) that want thier kids to learn english as the first language or the kids have no desire to speak thier parents native tongue.

Look back to every wave of foreign immigration (albeit mostly legal) into this country and even in burroughs that were 90 to 95% "old country" with in 2 generations the kids were speaking english as the first language or quickly picked it up as they moved away.

The real issue is the illegals....it has to be curtailed some how. That how will probably have to be a many pronged attack.

Better border enforcement with more officers/equipment
Much higher penalties and fines to business's and landlord's that employee or house illegals

How are these people getting by for years without any basic documentation or drivers licenses?!?!!?

I do NOT believe in blanket amnesty for illegals here now! That would only encourage the next wave thinking in a few years the US government will do that again.

Just my 2 cents and its not worth the zinc its made of!!! (y'all knew a penny contains 97.5% zinc and 2.5% copper)

From Wikipedia:

As of November 2, 2006, the price of copper is $3.31 per pound and zinc is $1.93 per pound. At these prices, the pre-1982 copper cent contains 2.224 cents worth of copper metal; it is now potentially profitable to melt them down. Presumably with the rapid rise in price for zinc, the US Mint will have to find another alternative. The scrap zinc in a modern cent is worth 1.1 cents. With the costs of manufacturing and distribution, the net cost to produce one cent is about 1.4 cents, significantly higher than the face value of the coin.

People with young ears can hear the difference between the bronze and copper pennies and the newer, zinc years: simply "flip" the coin, giving it a good, solid strike. The predominantly copper pennies produce a "ringing" sound in the 12 KHz range. The zinc coins do not ring.


OH SH*T!!!!!!!!!!:nono: I just pulled a Ronald!!!!!! :rll: :rll: :rll:

[gagspa]

They already have it made. They come here, get jobs, don't pay taxes, get free healthcare, kids go to school for free, and the parents send boxes of cash to relatives back in ol' mexico that either helps them pay to be smuggled over the border or funds god knows what illegal activity.
Why would they want to change anything? :flaming:
Which is why our best defense is to hit the people/companies that employ illegals.

[Tex Arcana]

If amnesty is granted to the illegal’s say good buy to our Health Care system as it will flooded and over burdened.

I don’t think a wall can be built and policed that will keep them out. The key is somehow improving their economy in Mexico so they will want to stay. Tall order but I don't see any other way to stem the tide that is coming over.

Not all their monies go back across the border- ever been out on a Sunday afternoon at the mall or Walmart- who’s dropping the coin then???

The health care system is already problematic, and it will take a major revamp to both fix it and make it possible to cover those that need it.

You're right about the Mexican economy: but it will take a major societal change for that to happen, it's so corrupt down there that every loose peso is being sucked up by the very few who're in power.

True, not all money goes, but when it's 50% or better, that's a significant chunk of change that never comes back. :nono:

[Tex Arcana]

They already have it made. They come here, get jobs, don't pay taxes, get free healthcare, kids go to school for free, and the parents send boxes of cash to relatives back in ol' mexico that either helps them pay to be smuggled over the border or funds god knows what illegal activity.
Why would they want to change anything? :flaming:

Hence why some changes need to be made on both ends.

Now, note that this is a percentage we're talking about: not all immigrants are illegal; those that are should be left out of this argument completely.

First step is to enforce the laws we already have in place.

Second step is to close the loopholes, and keep them closed.

Step 2.5 is to make English official, and end all bilingual programs unless they are expressedly intended to help them learn English.

Third step is to stop the "wetback railroads" in their tracks, especially the hypocrite hispanics that yell for "freedom" while they line their pockets with cash from those who just want a better life, providing fake green cards, SScard, and transportation.

Fourth step is to secure the border in a way that is viable and cost-effective. Building a 700-mile fence ain't gonna cut it.

Damn, what a debate we have ragin here! :tex:

[Tex Arcana]

Something else just dawned on me: here we are, basically throwing hispanics under the bus for "illegal immigration"; when, in fact, they are but one of many races that are illegally immigrating every day, with orientals being almost as hig on the numbers list as hispanics. Yet, we hardly blink when someone mentions orientals being shipped in here on a regular basis. :confused:

[Beaudee]

I see Carrolton following F.B. soon.

[Tex Arcana]

I see Carrolton following F.B. soon.

CArrolton is FB's redheaded stepchild... :rll:

edit: nah, can't see it happening, most of carrolton is hispanic. :nono:

[Beaudee]

Something else just dawned on me: here we are, basically throwing hispanics under the bus for "illegal immigration"; when, in fact, they are but one of many races that are illegally immigrating every day, with orientals being almost as hig on the numbers list as hispanics. Yet, we hardly blink when someone mentions orientals being shipped in here on a regular basis. :confused:
Viet Nam is the # 1 oriental moving to america i think..My wife came from Greece,after doing 5 years she got here citizenship.The swear in ceromony was the largest in the history of texas.It was over 2000 people @ Market Hall.
They called all the countrys and asked all the individuals from there to stand up.When they said Viet Nam,the whole place stood up.Mexico was also a large croud.These people where all doing it all legal though!!!!!!!!!!Viet Nam is a bit farther swim,i see mexico being the #1 migrators.

[dboat]

The health care system is already problematic, and it will take a major revamp to both fix it and make it possible to cover those that need it.


Tex,

Cant wait to hear your ideas on that one...

Dana