Lawn questions

[lenard_hester]

Ok, I am sick of my lawn, I have this crappy grass that grows on it that has these long stalks that grow along the ground and die every winter leaving a nice layer of dead plant matter the next year and the only thing that grows up through it is that same stupid type of grass.

I am not sure what type of grass that is, but I hate it (if you know what it is let me know). I want a lawn that I would like walking bare foot through. So my questions are for those that have some sort of knowledge in this field (even if you don't an you want to chime in, I welcome any input). First, if I wanted to get rid of my lawn altogether, which would be better, reseeding, or resodding? What type of grass would be good to use? How would I get rid of the old grass? I don't have a very large yard, but is this the kind of thing I could do myself, or would I be better hiring a professional to do it right?

I am considering some things to do next spring, so I thought I would get some input now to see what everyone thought.

[bluesvt]

St. Augustine is some good grass. I do not know how to get rid of the grass but we layed down squares of it and it is awesome. Kinda expensive but very nice to walk on and look at.

[wesman]

Sounds like Dallis grass. It is a PITA to get rid of in St Augustine because the chemicals used to kill it will also destroy the St Augustine. If you have Bermuda, you can treat it and once it's dead pull it up roots and all. the Bermuda will grow back in the area the weed is pulled from.


If you are thinking of re-sodding you will need to pull the weeds you have now, if not they will just grow right back up through the sod you lay in the spring.

--wes

[mustgofaster]

I have bermuda grass & it seems to hold up very well to foot traffic & my dog.
As far as which is better, sod or seed, I think that it depends on your patience. Sod is more expensive, but it is there immidiately, whereas the seed has to grow. #1, find out what kind of grass you want. #2, you must completely kill off the old lawn & till it under. #3, with the investment of time, effort & money, check the soil to make sure it will support a healthy lawn; Then plant.
I'm actually pretty new to the whole lawn thing, but I follow the guide on http://www.scotts.com/index.cfm/event/Home.Normal & I have the greeneset, most weed-free lawn on the block. It wasn't like that when I moved in though... when I moved in, I think I prolly had one of the worst lawns on my block.
I just used the interactive guide they have & killed off the crabgrass with MSMA crabgrass killer & my lawn is soft & green.
Most grasses will brown out with the cold, but they should come back.

I hope this helps,
Steve

[Ohmsby]

Ok, I am sick of my lawn, I have this crappy grass that grows on it that has these long stalks that grow along the ground and die every winter leaving a nice layer of dead plant matter the next year and the only thing that grows up through it is that same stupid type of grass.

I am not sure what type of grass that is, but I hate it (if you know what it is let me know). I want a lawn that I would like walking bare foot through. So my questions are for those that have some sort of knowledge in this field (even if you don't an you want to chime in, I welcome any input). First, if I wanted to get rid of my lawn altogether, which would be better, reseeding, or resodding? What type of grass would be good to use? How would I get rid of the old grass? I don't have a very large yard, but is this the kind of thing I could do myself, or would I be better hiring a professional to do it right?

I am considering some things to do next spring, so I thought I would get some input now to see what everyone thought.

Either St Augustine or Bermuda they are not dead they are simply dormant. If you have a shaddy lawn probably st. augustine but more than likely bermuda if it's sunny.

Unfortunately with the extreme heat in Texas you have a limited # of choices. Both of these types of grass will yield a wonderful turf if you follow an annual program that includes fertilization aerating and verticutting. proper maintenance of equipment and cutting height are also crucial.

You could sod or hydramulch but if you have an existing lawn nuturing it will be easier and cost a lot less in the long run.

Like anything you can educate yourself or just hire a turf company to handle these issues. I enjoy doing the lawn. I have a tiff bermuda lawn and overseed in the winter so we are green all year around:D

[mustgofaster]

Stupid question.. :rolleyes: What is overseeding? Is that simply seeding in the fall or winter? Just curious how to keep it green all winter long. I've kinda got a freindly compitition with my neighbor so I'd love to keep it green in the winter.

[Ohmsby]

Stupid question.. :rolleyes: What is overseeding? Is that simply seeding in the fall or winter? Just curious how to keep it green all winter long. I've kinda got a freindly compitition with my neighbor so I'd love to keep it green in the winter.

You can overseed with Rye in the winter typically after the overnight temps do not exceed 60 degrees as bermuda will not germinate and go dormant until the spring. overseeding St. Augustine is not a good idea.

Simply cut the grass as low as you can and then fertilize and overseed with rye (see home depot lowe's etc.) then water.2156

[Tex Arcana]

Lenard, what sort of sun does your yard get? Are we talking just the front, or front and back?

St. Augustine makes for a nice green lawn, but it's definitley NOT for this area, it's way too dry to begin with, and requires much much more water than Bermuda does. THis summer was NOT good to St.A grass. :(

If your yards get full sun most of the day, you might want to consider buffalo grass, which is native to the state, and exceptionally drought-tolerant and traffic-tolerant. My neighbor behind me has buffalo grass, and when everyone else's yards looked like crap, his hit 4" tall, didn't need mowing, and was green much longer into the drought than ours, and when it did go dormant due to lack of water, it turned a nice gold color; and when it did rain, it greened right back up.

Sod is the *fastest* way to get a total lawn. Seed is the most economical, with hydromulch coming in next. And in either case, it's best to kill off *ALL* undesirable grasses (defoliant sprays work nicely, but need to used while the grasses are growing/green) first, then it's best to till the dead plant matter in, before seeding or sodding.

After all that, a good program of fertilizing is your best bet, with some weed control as needed. Always mow with a sharp blade, and never mow shorter than necessary--the taller the grass, the healthier it is, and the less chance weedseed can germinate (because the soil stays shaded). And mulch your clippings, free fertilizer.

Good luck.

[BC Lightning]

hmm, laid grass, cut grass, and did anything else to grass for 3 years as a full time job, I know more about grass than anyone should ever know :cool:

I wouldn't listen to the guy who spent 2 weeks on training of proper grass maintence :rolleyes:

[BC Lightning]

St. Augustine makes for a nice green lawn, but it's definitley NOT for this area, it's way too dry to begin with, and requires much much more water than Bermuda does. THis summer was NOT good to St.A grass. :(



St augustine is the perfect grass for this area, planted new st. augistine on 8 acres of front and back yard of my parents house and no problems :rolleyes: but what do I know, only spent 3 years of my life around it

[wesman]

St augustine is the perfect grass for this area, planted new st. augistine on 8 acres of front and back yard of my parents house and no problems :rolleyes: but what do I know, only spent 3 years of my life around it

I agree .....spent about 23 of my life around it. I love St Augustine.....if you've got sprinklers it's pretty worry free.

--wes

[Tex Arcana]

St augustine is the perfect grass for this area, planted new st. augistine on 8 acres of front and back yard of my parents house and no problems :rolleyes: but what do I know, only spent 3 years of my life around it

Houston or Louisiana, maybe; not here. When we lived in Frisco, my neighbor had St.A for his lawn, and he had to water at least 4 times as much just to keep it alive. Bermuda is much better for the climate; and Buffalo grass is truly native, so even better, if only because it takes less water to keep it alive and good looking.

[SILVER2000SVT]

St. Augustine and Burmuda are pretty much the only two options for Texas because of the summer heat. If you want grass in a shady area that knocks the choice back to just St. Augustine. Both grow very well but as Tex mentioned St. Augustine tends to require more water. In the heat of the summer St. Augustine ideally needs about 2" of water per week while burmuda only needs about 1". I have about 15,000 sf of St. augustine just in my front yard, I can't afford to supply it 2" per week but I can give it 1" per week and keep it from going into dormacy (turning brown) in the heat of the summer. If you mess up and let your grass go into heat dormacy it takes the grass an extra 3 weeks or so to turn green again once cooler weather hits therefore loosing valuable growing time. This is also a time when weeds will set in and take over. So it's worth more in the long run to at least put the minimum amount of water required to prevent this from occuring, even if the yard isn't lush, you want to keep it green.

For weeds, there are more chemicals out there for burmuda than st. aug grass. This is especially true for crabgrass or dallis grass because the chemicals that kill these also hurt st. aug. If you have burmuda just spray a little MSMA and crabgrass is gone. Broad leaf weeds such as dandilion, and dollar weed can be killed on either grass with a simple broadleaf killer, no big deal. Even though it's harder to safely kill the weeds in st. aug the main thing I like about it is that it forms a thick mat, and with a healthy yard the weeds get choked out naturally by the thick grass much better than with burmuda, and I don't have to pollute my yard with chemicals.

[Shiner1]

I have St. Aug and have not had any problems with it. It could be the way I take of it as well. A little back ground first. When I put in my pool the builders destroyed the front yard getting to the back yard. The original grass was Bermuda. My neighbor suggested that I re-sod with St Aug. He said it was a heartier grass. (I didn't know) I thought how stupid it would look with half the yard in Bermuda and half in St. Aug. So I went to Home Depot and rented a sod remover. It took two days to remove the bermuda and my son and I laid the St. Aug squares. I don't know how much I would have cost to have it done or how much I saved but I only spent 4-4 1/2 days of work to get it done. I weed and feed twice per year and during the hottest months I water 3x a week for 12 minutes at each station. I have just cut back to twice per week at 6 minutes each station. The only draw back that I have is that it really needs to be mowed every 5 days or so for it to look really nice. Once per week is not really enough.

[Beaudee]

St. Aug. grass rocks and you can now buy it in a seed instead of sod.Home Depot has the seed.:tu:It does well even mixing it with bermuda.

[wesman]

St. Aug. grass rocks and you can now buy it in a seed instead of sod.Home Depot has the seed.:tu:It does well even mixing it with bermuda.


Yeah, most folks that speak against St Augustine obviously don't have first hand experience with St Augustine, it is very hearty here and is much more weed resistant than the Bermuda IMO.

As far as mixing St Augustine with the Bermuda, you only need to place a few squares out at the beginning of Spring and you can have a complete lush lawn of St Aug at the end of season if you treat it right.

The only issue with the St Augustins as stated before is when it gets infultrated with Dallis grass, the chemicals to treat it also affect the St Augstine and will kill it, the Bermuda will grow back in it's place until the St Augustine regenerates but Dallis grass is a huge PITA especially if you live on an Easement/Greenbelt that grows weeds etc and slings crap in your yard :flaming: :flaming: :hammer:

--wes

[dboat]

Having lived in Tx for 40 yrs and then to move up north.. the grass here is much easier on the feet.. St Augustine is great but a coarse grass.. very vinelike and not easy to walk or do activity on..but it is great because it fills in fast and easy..
The grass here is more like Bermuda but doesnt fill in nearly as fast and most anything seems to kill it.. but when its right, it is soft underfoot and looks great.. I grow mine to 3.5 inches in the summer and love the way it blows in the breeze..

Dana

[dboat]

If you are not really sure.. go to a few of the home and garden shows in town. There are usually some turf people there and they will have samples of the turf they sell... you could get some like they used to have in Texas Stadium or the kind they have at other large athletic venues..

at least you will have made an informed decision..

Dana

[Tex Arcana]

St. Augustine and Burmuda are pretty much the only two options for Texas because of the summer heat. If you want grass in a shady area that knocks the choice back to just St. Augustine. Both grow very well but as Tex mentioned St. Augustine tends to require more water. In the heat of the summer St. Augustine ideally needs about 2" of water per week while burmuda only needs about 1". I have about 15,000 sf of St. augustine just in my front yard, I can't afford to supply it 2" per week but I can give it 1" per week and keep it from going into dormacy (turning brown) in the heat of the summer. If you mess up and let your grass go into heat dormacy it takes the grass an extra 3 weeks or so to turn green again once cooler weather hits therefore loosing valuable growing time. This is also a time when weeds will set in and take over. So it's worth more in the long run to at least put the minimum amount of water required to prevent this from occuring, even if the yard isn't lush, you want to keep it green.

For weeds, there are more chemicals out there for burmuda than st. aug grass. This is especially true for crabgrass or dallis grass because the chemicals that kill these also hurt st. aug. If you have burmuda just spray a little MSMA and crabgrass is gone. Broad leaf weeds such as dandilion, and dollar weed can be killed on either grass with a simple broadleaf killer, no big deal. Even though it's harder to safely kill the weeds in st. aug the main thing I like about it is that it forms a thick mat, and with a healthy yard the weeds get choked out naturally by the thick grass much better than with burmuda, and I don't have to pollute my yard with chemicals.


Buffalograss and zoysia are both excellent grasses for Texas, especially since they are native and require much less water than even Bermuda.

And for those of you who think I don't have experience with St.A: I grew up in Houston, the only damned grass that grows well down there is St.A; my grandmother's yard here had St.A, mized with Bermuda, and the Bermuda did better thru the summer because it was just that much more heat tolerant.

[dboat]

Buffalograss and zoysia are both excellent grasses for Texas, especially since they are native and require much less water than even Bermuda.

And for those of you who think I don't have experience with St.A: I grew up in Houston, the only damned grass that grows well down there is St.A; my grandmother's yard here had St.A, mized with Bermuda, and the Bermuda did better thru the summer because it was just that much more heat tolerant.


John, I grew up in Houston.. what part of town? which high school did you attend?

and St Augustine was about the only grass there.. it killed out everthing else.
Dana

[lenard_hester]

Thanks all for your input. I got to looking at some pictures of the various grasses mentioned and I think my law may St. Augustine or buffalo, it is hard to tell from internet pictures. I think I may take the advice of attening a lawn and garden show to get a better feel for what I might like.

[Tex Arcana]

John, I grew up in Houston.. what part of town? which high school did you attend?

and St Augustine was about the only grass there.. it killed out everthing else.
Dana

I was there 'til I was 11, 1972. I lived on Caroline Street, between downtown and Herman Park.

[Tex Arcana]

Thanks all for your input. I got to looking at some pictures of the various grasses mentioned and I think my law may St. Augustine or buffalo, it is hard to tell from internet pictures. I think I may take the advice of attening a lawn and garden show to get a better feel for what I might like.

Buffalograss looks alot like bermuda, with thin leaves. Chances are it's St.A.

[dboat]

I was there 'til I was 11, 1972. I lived on Caroline Street, between downtown and Herman Park.

wow, I am so much older than you..I got out of HS in 75... that was a nice part of town back then..

Dana

[gagspa]

wow, I am so much older than you..I got out of HS in 75... that was a nice part of town back then..

Dana
I was born in '75 and I am old!

:D

[True Blue Aggie]

http://aggieturf.tamu.edu/answers4you/index.htm

[Tex Arcana]

wow, I am so much older than you..I got out of HS in 75... that was a nice part of town back then..

Dana

What part of Houston did *you* live in??? If you followed the "lost puppy" thread, you read what I endured in '68, '69, '70, and '71. :( We were one of the very few white families in that area, which was sad because that was one of the original "upscale" neighborhoods, with some absolutely gorgeous old homes--including the one I grew up in, which my grandfatehr built in 1915.

You ain't that old, my dear wife graduated from Skyline high school here in Dallas in '73. ;)

[Tex Arcana]

I was born in '75 and I am old!

:D

Dana *must* be old, if he thought the area I grew up in was *nice*... :d

[Tex Arcana]

Lenard, I know I seem to be pushing the boffalograss, but this table from the aggie site says it all:


:tongue:
Grass Species....Shade Tolerance....Water Requirement....Traffic Tolerance
St. Augustine........High...............Medium........ ..........Low
Bermuda..............Very low...........Med.-Low................High
Buffalo..............Medium.............Very Low................Medium
Centipede............Medium.............Medium.... ..............Low
Tall Fescue..........High...............Medium......... .........Medium
Zoysia japonica*.....Med.-High..........Medium..................High
Zoysia matrella*.....Med.-High..........Medium..................Medium

Grass Species......Cold Tolerance....Salinity Tolerance......Disease Potential
St. Augustine............Low...............Medium..... ............High
Bermuda..................Medium............Med.-High..............Med.-Low
Buffalo..................High..............Low.... ................Low
Centipede................Low-Med...........Low....................Med.-Low
Tall Fescue..............High..............Low......... ...........Low
Zoysia japonica*.........High..............Med.-High..............Med.-Low
Zoysia matrella*.........Medium............Medium........ .........Med.-Low

Grass Species....Mowing Frequency....Mowing Height....Fertility Requirement....Leaf Texture
St. Augustine........5-7 days..........2.5-3.5"............Medium.................Coarse
Bermuda..............3-7 days..........1.0-1.5"............High...................Fine
Buffalo..............7-14 days.........2.5-3.0"............Low....................Fine
Centipede............7-14 days.........1.5-2.5"............Low....................Coarse
Tall Fescue..........5-7 days..........2.5-3.0"............Medium.................Coarse
Zoysia japonica*.....7-10 days.........1.0-1.5"............Med.-Low...............Medium
Zoysia matrella*.....5-7 days..........0.5-1.0"............Medium.................Fine

* There are two species of zoysiagrass available to home owners, Zoysia japonica (a medium leaf grass well adapted for home lawns) and Zoysia matrella (a fine leaf grass that produces a very dense, beautiful turf, but may require more maintenance).

I disagree with their "medium" water requirements for St.A, I honestly think it's higher than that, but that's me. After seeing how easy it is for my neighbor to maintain his lawn, and how *little* he mows it, I'm sold on buffalograss.

[dboat]

What part of Houston did *you* live in??? If you followed the "lost puppy" thread, you read what I endured in '68, '69, '70, and '71. :( We were one of the very few white families in that area, which was sad because that was one of the original "upscale" neighborhoods, with some absolutely gorgeous old homes--including the one I grew up in, which my grandfatehr built in 1915.

You ain't that old, my dear wife graduated from Skyline high school here in Dallas in '73. ;)

I grew up and lived in several different parts of Houston.. I lived in the South Houston/Pasadena part of town until I was a freshman in HS. Then we moved to the Clear Lake area. About 6 months after graduation, I moved to the Medical Center area, when I got married, we moved to the Woodlands and then moved back to the Medical Center area after about 6 yrs. I got divorced and moved to the SW part of town before I moved to Kansas City.

I remember the area of town you grew up in as a kid when it was nice.. I did go to and graduated from The Univ of Houston, but did the main campus for 2.5 yrs and UH Clear Lake for the last 1.5 yrs.. yes I did it in 4 yrs..

Dana

[Tex Arcana]

I grew up and lived in several different parts of Houston.. I lived in the South Houston/Pasadena part of town until I was a freshman in HS. Then we moved to the Clear Lake area. About 6 months after graduation, I moved to the Medical Center area, when I got married, we moved to the Woodlands and then moved back to the Medical Center area after about 6 yrs. I got divorced and moved to the SW part of town before I moved to Kansas City.

I remember the area of town you grew up in as a kid when it was nice.. I did go to and graduated from The Univ of Houston, but did the main campus for 2.5 yrs and UH Clear Lake for the last 1.5 yrs.. yes I did it in 4 yrs..

Dana

My dad graduated from UH as well... in 1955. :eek2: On the GI Bill, no less. My mom graduated from Rice, as well.

If you went a few blocks--I want to say east and north--the "nice area" around the universities turned into a war zone, decent old neighborhood that was declining badly. The only reason my parents didn't move is that the house was paid for, and my mom didn't want to let it go.

In 1994, we went to Houston for thanksgiving/family reunion, and we went by my old home, and all that was left was a few of the trees and the foundation of the house--what a shock. I drove by there again, back in 2001, and the entire block was gone, replaced by some church's annex building. :(

I guess that proves that you can't ever go back.

[dboat]

In 1994, we went to Houston for thanksgiving/family reunion, and we went by my old home, and all that was left was a few of the trees and the foundation of the house--what a shock. I drove by there again, back in 2001, and the entire block was gone, replaced by some church's annex building. :(

I guess that proves that you can't ever go back.

Well, at least to that part of town you cant. :hammer:

There were some really nice old homes over there once.. oh well..

Having lived so long there but in so many different places, I only look at about 4 of the homes as something I would drive by to see again.. I am sure all of them are still there though.. the last house I lived in with wife #1, was on North Braeswood, inside the loop and in the Medical Center area.. I am sure it is there and worth a heck of a lot more than I sold it for when we got divorced. It was a 3300 sq ft ranch with a 2 car garage but it was the size of a 3 car garage, had a huge workshop area plus washer and dryer. Loved that house..
Dana

[mustgofaster]

Ohmsby...
What time of the year do you put down the rye seed? Is it too late?

Thanks,
Steve

[Tex Arcana]

Well, at least to that part of town you cant. :hammer:

There were some really nice old homes over there once.. oh well..

Having lived so long there but in so many different places, I only look at about 4 of the homes as something I would drive by to see again.. I am sure all of them are still there though.. the last house I lived in with wife #1, was on North Braeswood, inside the loop and in the Medical Center area.. I am sure it is there and worth a heck of a lot more than I sold it for when we got divorced. It was a 3300 sq ft ranch with a 2 car garage but it was the size of a 3 car garage, had a huge workshop area plus washer and dryer. Loved that house..
Dana

Yeah, that is one of those areas that was pretty nice, even in those days. I think (like alot of cities) the closer to downtown you got, the worse the neighborhoods got, typically turning into ghettos at some place. :(