When will this madness end?

[Sixpipes]

The kid was from Fort Worth and only 24 years old. What a senseless tragedy. :mad:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-broncos-williamskilled&prov=ap&type=lgns

[dboat]

The kid was from Fort Worth and only 24 years old. What a senseless tragedy. :mad:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-broncos-williamskilled&prov=ap&type=lgns

yes it is, especially since this kid went the right direction and was coming back home to tell that to younger kids as well..

when will it stop? who knows? maybe when the punishment is greater than the crime.. works elsewhere that way..

Dana

[WA 2 FST]

when will it stop? who knows? maybe when the punishment is greater than the crime.. works elsewhere that way..



Yep. If we had a few more public hangings or the like it would help. We need a real deterrant.

[03LightningRocks]

The older I get, the more I realize that the punishment is not going to be a deterent to murder of this type. Typically when folks are raging mad to a level of wanting to kill someone, they are not thinking about what will happen if they get caught. What keeps most of us from committing crimes of rage is that we had right and wrong instilled in us from childhood. Most of these kids grow up on the street. Hell, they usually don't know who their daddies are. Their mommas are typically crack smokers or drunk ass welfare b!tches.

Hang them all you want...hell...skin em...it won't change a thing. I am beginning to realize that the death penalty is great for revenge, but deterrent??? Bahh...bullsh!t. If I get pissed off enough, I ain't going to be thinking about what might happen if I extract my anger on someone. Knowing it is wrong to, wack a person out, is what will stop me. That little voice from my childhood. My compassion....not my fear of reprisal.

One of these days I have to sit and spend some time trying to figure out the christian belief that killing is OK if the other guys does it first. LOL....hell, if folks didn't believe in an after life, they might be less likely to end a life. but oh no...we can always tell ourselves that we are simply shifting them to some other realm. Yeah...that's the ticket...we will send them to god.

[WA 2 FST]

The older I get, the more I realize that the punishment is not going to be a deterent to murder of this type. Typically when folks are raging mad to a level of wanting to kill someone, they are not thinking about what will happen if they get caught. What keeps most of us from committing crimes of rage is that we had right and wrong instilled in us from childhood. Most of these kids grow up on the street. Hell, they usually don't know who their daddies are. Their mommas are typically crack smokers or drunk ass welfare b!tches.

Hang them all you want...hell...skin em...it won't change a thing. I am beginning to realize that the death penalty is great for revenge, but deterrent??? Bahh...bullsh!t. If I get pissed off enough, I ain't going to be thinking about what might happen if I extract my anger on someone. Knowing it is wrong to, wack a person out, is what will stop me. That little voice from my childhood. My compassion....not my fear of reprisal.



I agree about being mad enough that it won't matter, and I wouldn't be thinking about what might happen to me, either. Just like if someone breaks into my home or sets foot on my property and I believe my family is threatened. They will eat some lead and I'll go before a judge and then I'll worry about the penalty.

But that is different than this (more than likely... I don't think we know the real motive behind this guy's limo getting shot up, but I seriously doubt it had anything to do with rage). This was some premeditated act of aggression for basically no reason. Chances are that being mad or angry had nothing to do with the person(s) who riddled the limo with bullets.

And I disagree about capital punishment not being a deterrant. Make it public. Make it a little horrific. Take the offender back to his side of the tracks and perform the execution. Yes, this is borderline totalitarian, I know. And I would agree that the most horrific offenders won't be affected by it. But they also shouldn't be allowed to sit in a jail cell on my nickel, get 3 meals a day, and exercise. That money can be used elsewhere.

And while I don't really think you are trying to make excuses for these types of low-lifes, I am so sick of the liberal BS that spouts off all the reasons "why" such-and-such criminal had a rough life and turned out bad, etc. I really don't care. That is not my problem... until we decide to leave them in jail at a cost of $100k a year to tax-payers, give them free education if they so choose, "rehabilitate" them (biggest crock), and then set them free so they can do harm to my friends and family. Yeah, that's the ticket.

I'm sorry they weren't given a tutorial on "right vs. wrong", but the lines are getting more and more blurred in our society today anyway, so I'm not sure it matters about their upbringing. I mean today if I "think" I'm right then you should accept me and love me b/c I'm just following my own belief system... even if that allows me to do things that you would consider wrong. Hogwash.

Like those 12yr old kids (my son's age) who decided to molest, mutilate and then tie a 4 yr old to a train track so he could get crushed and die. I'm sorry... the gene pool needs to be depleted of their kind. Punishment for that? Find the nearest telephone pole and hang 'em. Or tie them to the same train track and let their friends in juvenile hall watch. The argument that those boys are too young to be tried, convicted and sentenced as an adult would for the same crime is a bunch of bunk.

Anyway... back on topic... this is truly sad, and not just b/c this guy was a pro athlete. That's the only reason we're hearing about it, more than likely. So what should the justice system do to the offenders if they are caught?

[03LightningRocks]

I am all about the death penalty. But I don't believe it is a deterrent in any way. I don't buy into the bullsh!t about it being a deterrent. Least not for a killing like this. Maybe it is deterrent to someone wanting to kill for personal gain. Even in cases of personal gain, most folks that kill thought they would never get caught.

Read my post again Wes. You won't see a single part in it where I said I didn't believe in the death penalty. I believe in calling a spade a spade. It's pay back...pure and simple. I believe society just feels more comfy about acting like there is some greater motive.

[Sixpipes]

One of these days I have to sit and spend some time trying to figure out the christian belief that killing is OK if the other guys does it first.

I've got time if you're really serious, but debating religious beliefs over the internet is a pretty useless thing. As a Christian, the belief that killing is OK is not part of the doctrine. I do believe that the purpose of the law is to terrorize the criminal and if that includes capital punishment, I don't have a problem with it. :cool:

[tiffo60]

" 'If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death.

Numbers 35:16


'Anyone who kills a person is to be put to death as a murderer only on the testimony of witnesses. But no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.

Numbers 35:30

They will be places of refuge from the avenger, so that a person accused of murder may not die before he stands trial before the assembly.

35:12

[03LightningRocks]

Got anything from the New Testament? The old testament says we should stone people too.

I can't remember reading anything about Jesus killing anyone. He actually said to turn the other cheek. His teachings where of forgiveness and compassion, without qualification first. Seems to me the organized religions like to pick and choose which parts of the Bible they are going to profess to believe in.

[tiffo60]

jesus said let the man with out sin cast the first stone, and that had an adulter invloved, not a murderer, clearly states that the man that murders another man, then by man he will die

[tiffo60]

heres the new testiment, Revelation 13:10


If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

[Sixpipes]

Like I said before, debating religious philosophies is a waste of time. If you want to know what the Christian perspective should be regarding earthly authority, instructions are Romans Chapter 13. Man has broken the law from his very existence and will continue to do so until the last days. :cool:

[Silver_2000]

"What would Jesus do ??"

Well he wouldn't wear a bracelet or a keychain or a necklace with WWJD on it ...

[dboat]

"What would Jesus do ??"

Well he wouldn't wear a bracelet or a keychain or a necklace with WWJD on it ...

nope, that would be WWID... right?:D

[Tex Arcana]

I probably shouldn't say this... but you have to suspect a book that's been written and rewritten to reflect the views of the editors, not just the bible, but the koran as well. :rolleyes:

I prefer to live by Bhuddist philosophies:

It is better not to hurt;
It is better to hurt than to be hurt;
It is better to maim than to be maimed;
It is better to kill than to be killed.

:throw: Flame on, boys.

[Sixpipes]

I probably shouldn't say this... but you have to suspect a book that's been written and rewritten to reflect the views of the editors, not just the bible, but the koran as well. :rolleyes:

I prefer to live by Bhuddist philosophies:

It is better not to hurt;
It is better to hurt than to be hurt;
It is better to maim than to be maimed;
It is better to kill than to be killed.

:throw: Flame on, boys.
No flames necessary. Someone else will take care of that someday...:cool:

[dboat]

No flames necessary. Someone else will take care of that someday...:cool:

Yep, and it will give "flame on" a whole new meaning..

Dana

[03LightningRocks]

No flames necessary. Someone else will take care of that someday...:cool:

"Judge not, lest ye be judged." :D

[BC Lightning]

"Judge not, lest ye be judged." :D

and you can't take the splinter out of their eye before you take the log out of your own


So when will it stop? It never will, Jesus said "it rains on the just and un-just alike"

[Sixpipes]

"Judge not, lest ye be judged." :D

There is only one Judge and I ain't him. And I'm not getting sucked into the debate. The thread was originally about a bright young man who had his whole life in front of him and was killed by someone that obviously has no respect for human life. A sad commentary on how far the American psyche has drifted from the moral absolutes this country was founded upon. I choose to agree with you on that as opposed to disagreeing with you on the other stuff. :cool:

[dboat]

"Judge not, lest ye be judged." :D

I didnt take it that he was judging Tex, nor was I. But I guess I could understand how one might take it that way.

Dana

[Tex Arcana]

"Judge not, lest ye be judged." :D

Thank you. I know you weren't doing it for *me*, per se, but it sums up how I feel.

I don't live my life according to *one* philosophy; I pulled together the best aspects of many, and choose to live my life that way. A majority of is is based on christianity, but not all.

What bothers me the most about any form of "dogma" is the hypocrisy of those who tout themselves ad the "final word" of their dogma. As those of you who said that I'll "see flames" when it's over and done with, that's exactly what I'm talking about: you judged based on your narrow viewpoint, not on what *I* believe and how I practice it.

And that scope widens to include any and all religions. Who are we to judge what a person believes? And it goes the other way as well: who are they to judge us??

If any of you saw "Dogma", you'll know what I'm talking about; but Rufus said it right, when we should just understand that "it's a good IDEA", instead of carved in dogmatic stone--that way, if it turns out to not be such a good idea, it can be changed easily. Of course, that flies in the face of everything that's been beaten into our heads by "christian" leaders, for obvious reasons (they don't want to lose their control over us--"choice" to them is a dirty word). And that applies to most of religions as well.

I CHOOSE what and how to believe. Most things are pure fact: gravity, light, heat, physics, Lightnings. Others are "good ideas": "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", "Be Excellent to Each Other; Party On, Dude!". Etcetera, etcetera. But, the bottom line is: ***I CHOOSE***. The harder someone tries to push their beliefs on me, the more I think they have a hidden agenda (and it's usually true).

Those of you who've met me, know I'm an honest, decent person, and likely the last one to rip anyone off, and that I try my best not to hurt people.

So, if you're going to hold my beliefs against me, so be it: nothing I can do about it, no skin off my nose.