Well we don't talk politics

[Mark #2]

Why not?

Who are we going to vote for next year?

It would be interesting to see an occasional house guest from the 80s run.:D

Related link
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-01/24/content_5648229.htm


Did you hear Ted on the radio this morning?

[Tex Arcana]

Because some of us have differing opinions, and around here that's anathema, so it's a complete waste of time.

[Mark #2]

anathema

I had to look up the definition, only got a 25 on the IQ test.;)

I like differing opinions, that is why we post isn't it?

Now who are we voting for in 2008?

[Mika]

Don't think the country is ready for a woman president, or a Muslim. I don't see any fantastic candidates from the Repubs either. It's another round of "choose the lesser evil".



Mika

[Tex Arcana]

I had to look up the definition, only got a 25 on the IQ test.;)

I like differing opinions, that is why we post isn't it?

Now who are we voting for in 2008?

HOnestly, so do I, but I get tired of being called "idiot" and getting flamed. :( If I can accept people for who they are, and not what I think they should be, why can't I get the return treatment?

[Mika]

HOnestly, so do I, but I get tired of being called "idiot" and getting flamed. :( If I can accept people for who they are, and not what I think they should be, why can't I get the return treatment?

One thing you've never had a problem doing is stating your opinion. If others can't accept that your opinion may be different than theirs, that's their close-mindedness that they have to deal with. I mean, there's over 6 billion people in this world. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion as yours in everything.



Mika

[dboat]

I would vote for Ted.. he's a Republican that is also a very avid hunter.. myself I am a Libertarian/Republican... moreso a guy that believes in fiscal conservatism but big on personal freedoms.

Go Ted Go..

Dana

[tiffo60]

HOnestly, so do I, but I get tired of being called "idiot" and getting flamed. :( If I can accept people for who they are, and not what I think they should be, why can't I get the return treatment?


need a tissue? :evil

[Ohmsby]

Why is the presidential election like a modified version of the Biggest Loser.
Seems like I find myself voting for the lesser of two evils.

For instance if I think the house and senate are going to be one party I vote the other for president. Usually less gets done to screw me out of things like civil liberty, tax dollars, etc.

IMHO we are walking that fine line of being careful what you ask for you just might get it.

[WA 2 FST]

HOnestly, so do I, but I get tired of being called "idiot" and getting flamed. :( If I can accept people for who they are, and not what I think they should be, why can't I get the return treatment?

John, I still love you man... and most everyone knows I'm from the far-right, ultra-conservative camp.

More than likely if this forum was based in Seattle, WA or the like, I'd be the one running for cover every time I opened my mouth on something that was non-L related. But the political climate here just happens to be more conservative, so you get flamed a bit.

Group hugs after its all said and done. ;)

[Silver_2000]

John, I still love you man... and most everyone knows I'm from the far-right, ultra-conservative camp.

More than likely if this forum was based in Seattle, WA or the like, I'd be the one running for cover every time I opened my mouth on something that was non-L related. But the political climate here just happens to be more conservative, so you get flamed a bit.

Group hugs after its all said and done. ;)
Not everything here is based on politics.

In my opinion Tex just likes taking the contrary position.

And I like disagreeing:evil:evil

[Tex Arcana]

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence guys. And Doug's right, I play devil's advocate alot.

As for the elections: I like JOhn Edwards from the get-go last time, and I wished he had run instead. Barak's got some serious momentum, and he really seems to be level-headed. I'd say we're ready for a woman president, if it were anyone but Hillary and her history.

I'm gonna hang back, tho, and let things shake out a bit before going any further, 'cept to say it won't be Republican I vote for. :nono:

[Sixpipes]

Not everything here is based on politics.

In my opinion Tex just likes taking the contrary position.




I must admit it is like watching someone drive themselves off a cliff. You know you shouldn't watch, but you just can't help yourself. :beer:

[Tex Arcana]

I must admit it is like watching someone drive themselves off a cliff. You know you shouldn't watch, but you just can't help yourself. :beer:

:crying:

[WA 2 FST]

I'm gonna hang back, tho, and let things shake out a bit before going any further, 'cept to say it won't be Republican I vote for. :nono:

That doesn't surprise me. Guess our votes will cancel each other out.

That doesn't mean I'm real happy with how the Republicans have handled things (didn't get nearly enough conservative agenda passed when they had control of Congress... which to me is completely irresponsible of them), but I'm not voting for anyone with a socialist agenda and that is what we get with the Democrats.

To use an old Cold War slogan, "I'd rather be dead than RED", and I'd rather be proactive vs. terrorism and ask for forgiveness later (and yes, it's time to ask for forgiveness the way the Iraqi War has been handled _in the last two years_).

Ok... I'm going to shut up. Friends can vote different ways. :tu:

[Mark #2]

I still follow some of the Baaston papers.:D

http://news.bostonherald.com/editorial/view.bg?articleid=179046

http://www.exploremccain.com/?sid=google

http://www.joinrudy2008.com/?gclid=CND17eq2_4kCFR4cgQod1DhjMQ

[dboat]

I must admit it is like watching someone drive themselves off a cliff. You know you shouldn't watch, but you just can't help yourself. :beer:

I can see this, but I like John too.. I understand where he is coming from on a lot of issues, I dont necessarily agree with him a some, but I do appreciate the opinion being posted.. sometimes, things have to be said...

Dana

[Sixpipes]

:crying:


Nothing personal Tex; just an observation. While we disagree on virtually everything, I find a lot of your posts humorous if not entertaining. :D

[my2002lightning]

As an NRA Life-Member, avid hunter and old-school Reagan supporter "Peace through superior firepower" policies seem to work for me - on numerous levels.


Ronald

[BC Lightning]

I will still probably vote republican, even though I don’t really like most of the candidates.

Regardless of how you feel about Bush at least he has a plan and is sticking to it. It might not be a good one, but the only plan democrats can come up with is, pull all the troops out, and that doesn’t accomplish anything.

And the US used intelligence from Israel, Britain, and France before attacking Iraq.

Am I the only one that has noticed we haven’t had planes going through our buildings, or subway attacks, maybe something is being done right?

One of my Doctors went to Los Angeles County Hosp and did surgeries for 2 weeks, and he said that more people died from gang related violence in a day than troops dying in Iraq.

We should treat Iraq like we did Vietnam and have a yearly vote whether or not U.S. troops should stay in Vietnam (or Iraq), and when Vietnam (or Iraq) votes to have no more help from US troops then we will pull out. But to get to this point is years away.

What about all of the troops still in Bosnia Pres. Clinton sent over????

How about the city of New Orleans voting down 3 times to rebuild the levy. If this was done then it probably could have withstood Katrina.

I still like Pres. Bush because he doesn’t change his policies to get better polls.

[bluesvt]

Saw a funny bumpersticker today saying "When Clinton lied no one died." I am pro Bush all the way but it was still funny when the two 90 year old ladys could not even drive in one lane.

[WA 2 FST]

Saw a funny bumpersticker today saying "When Clinton lied no one died." I am pro Bush all the way but it was still funny when the two 90 year old ladys could not even drive in one lane.

That is funny, but highly debatable.

It's amazing this country has survived this long regarding thinking towards war of any kind nowdays. I'm honestly sorry and sad that we've lost ANY men/women over in Irag and Afghanistan. But the count is just over 3000 in 4+years of fighting a war on foreign soil. Anti-war people keep throwing out the sheer #s of lives lost. They have short (or no) memories whatsoever.

I understand the debate whether we should be at war over there or not, but leave the number of dead out of it. Those people went over there to serve and protect our country and died willingly for the cause.

[bluesvt]

All I have to say is this war would be over in 45 min if Bush really wanted it to. I am leaning more toward that way now since Dems. are taking over.

[bluesvt]

Sorry... computer problems

[bluesvt]

.

[bluesvt]

.

[WA 2 FST]

All I have to say is this war would be over in 45 min if Bush really wanted it to. I am leaning more toward that way now since Dems. are taking over.

Exactly. We've been "playing nice" and "playing by the rules" (rules in war? haven't figured that out... tell that to communist red China or the old USSSR or the terrorists) in order to placate the propped up international police called the UN.

[bluesvt]

Exactly. We've been "playing nice" and "playing by the rules" (rules in war? haven't figured that out... tell that to communist red China or the old USSSR or the terrorists) in order to placate the propped up international police called the UN.

I also like how we are going back to not giving a sh*t over there when being threatened. We gave them a chance to try and let them form a gov't but with their Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki not doing anything about Hezbollah we have no choice. This may be just me but I think people forget how many people they killed in 9-11-01 and if nothing is done what will happen next.

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Why not?

Who are we going to vote for next year?

It would be interesting to see an occasional house guest from the 80s run.:D

Related link
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-01/24/content_5648229.htm


Did you hear Ted on the radio this morning?

When was the last time you voted for a candidate instead of voting against the opponent?:vomit:

[ThunderBolt]

I would vote for Ted.. he's a Republican that is also a very avid hunter.. myself I am a Libertarian/Republican... moreso a guy that believes in fiscal conservatism but big on personal freedoms.

Go Ted Go..

Dana


+1:cool:

[Mark #2]

When was the last time you voted for a candidate instead of voting against the opponent?:vomit:
Unfortunately, I agree, but who are you voting for next year?
I don't see anyone running that I like yet.

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Unfortunately, I agree, but who are you voting for next year?
I don't see anyone running that I like yet.

Mark,

There is NOT ONE CANDIDATE WHO HAS ANNOUNCED SO FAR I CAN SAY I WOULD VOTE FOR. IT IS GOING TO COME DOWN TO THE LESSER OF THE TWO EVILS. Having been in Washington and watched the yahoos there are a few things I perceive:

1. If their lips are moving, they are lying.

2. It doesn't matter what they say before the election.

3. Special interest money talks very loudly.

4. The media shows us what they want us to see.

5. Even though we have a correct view of the world, we are in a minority.

[Mark #2]

5. Even though we have a correct view of the world, we are in a minority.
Well my college roommate is below so I have a little insight.;)
http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=527703616

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Well my college roommate is below so I have a little insight.;)
http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=527703616

And there is still only so much he can do and keep his job --- trust me, been there ,, done that,, got the tattoo:cool:

[Tex Arcana]

3. Special interest money owns us.

4. The media shows us what they are paid to show us.


fixed.

And there is only one solution, problem is I can't use the word for fear of ending up in Guantanamo with my citizenship stripped and beaten half to death. :tex

[Shiner1]

fixed.

And there is only one solution, problem is I can't use the word for fear of ending up in Guantanamo with my citizenship stripped and beaten half to death. :tex

Don't be ascared.....say it!!!

[BC Lightning]

I disagree on your point Tex where TV shows us what they are paid to show us, if that were true then the images shown and reports would be saying how great the war is going, how were not loosing any lives, and would show the President as someone who is making a difference, as opposed to how everything is being reported now.

My main thoughts are that civilians shouldn’t know as much as they do about what is happening in the war or any wars for that matter, if people back home knew how many lives were being lost in WW2 do you think they would have supported the war like they did?? Heck No!!



The news only reports what they feel like can get an audience and so they show whatever they want, if the Govt were paying them it would be a totaly different broadcast

[Tex Arcana]

I disagree on your point Tex where TV shows us what they are paid to show us, if that were true then the images shown and reports would be saying how great the war is going, how were not loosing any lives, and would show the President as someone who is making a difference, as opposed to how everything is being reported now.

My main thoughts are that civilians shouldn’t know as much as they do about what is happening in the war or any wars for that matter, if people back home knew how many lives were being lost in WW2 do you think they would have supported the war like they did?? Heck No!!



The news only reports what they feel like can get an audience and so they show whatever they want, if the Govt were paying them it would be a totaly different broadcast


If you don't believe my assertion avout TV, look at Fox news, which is totally biased toward the Rush Limbaugh crowd. Some "news agencies" seem less biased/bought, but when money talks, the news follows.

WW2, and even WW1 were totally different than today, I suspect that with the media coverage we have today, the response to WW2 would've been even stronger, and possibly sooner than Pearl Harbor--remember, it was a policy of isolation that kept the US out of WW2 until we were forced to by the telegram from hitler to Mexico, and the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

And you can't compare WW2 with any of the "wars" that followed: Korea was a political action, and ended as a stalemate; VietNam was a major league mistake, period; and this "action" is simply an oil war, with a bunch of "patriotism" heaped upon it. Sending 20k more troops is a drop in the bucket, akin to VietNam's, and definitely insufficient to bring this to a conclusive end; it merely guarantees that a another hefty percentage of soldiers die. Either swarm the place with soldier ans materiel and hammer then into the sand, or just give up and get the hell out. Truth be known, we don't need the oil, the Russians and Chinese are perfectly happy to sell us their oil--hell, there's all those Lukoil gas staions going up, and they're Russian-sourced; and there's the fields off the left coast, in Canada, and in Alaska waiting to be tapped. And let's not forget Mexican oil, and South American. Who needs OPEC and Iraqi oil??

As for us being informed: hell yes we should know everything that doesn't compromise our troops safety/security, or the safety of undercover operatives. Everything else is fair game--and we NEED to know, so we can be invovled with the overall decisions, if our representatives don't vote the way WE tell them to, we SHOULD know this so we can vote their sorry butts out. WE THE PEOPLE are the bosses, not them, it would do well if we all remembered this.

[Tex Arcana]

Don't be ascared.....say it!!!
It's the first word in the acronym "rpm". :tex

[Shiner1]

It's the first word in the acronym "rpm". :tex

That may be the answer.

[WA 2 FST]

Tex,

It's certainly your perrogative to not watch Fox News, just like I refuse to watch anything with Tom Brokaw, or the station (ABC) that once used the late socialist Peter Jennings as an anchor. I also don't waste my time with the New York Times, The LA Times or several other far-leftist propaganda-producing publications.

While I will agree that Fox is more conservative than almost every other news station out there, it seems it was created b/c everything else that has been around in my lifetime that I can remember (last 25 years) is so far slanted to the left it's absurd. So I'll give you the issue regarding Fox, but any denying my point on the others is just ignorance.

I happen to agree somewhat with you on the Iraq war. "Shock and Awe" was a joke, but we are hamstrung by policies that make us "play nice". We could have ended the conflict a long time ago with more force, but I'm not sure the end result would be any better... albeit, it would have been quicker. I think the biggest miscalculation here was that by eliminating the dictator we would, in effect, throw the country into civil war with all these religions/sectarian factions fighting for control. They all hate each other... something that probably only those old enough to have been around during the pre-civil rights days can understand to any real extent.

I don't think this is all about oil though, or we'd already be sucking the country dry. We also would have been quicker to put our forces around the precious oil fields... something we are not guarding well enough even now, leading to a complete waste of the country's only real resource as they are being pillaged and vandalized to the point of slow operation.

Will it ever become a true democracy over there? It's a long shot at this point based on the past 4+ years. :( But I do think that was as big of a reason for this as trying to rid the world of a rich, cruel dictator. A democratic, Arab/Muslim-ruled ally in the middle-east would be a great thing... I just doubt it will ever happen.

What's unfortunate is that since this has not gone well, I am betting we'll leave ourselves open to bigger problems later on. But I supported the war when we started it, and I'm not going to completely bail on the policy now just b/c it hasn't gone as planned. The "sit back and sit on our hands" approach doesn't work either.

As far as WW2, we might have entered the war earlier had we had media coverage like we do today, but I'm not sure we'd have stayed the course. People are going crazy over 3000+ dead in 4+ years in Iraq. What would they have done over that number dead in 30 minutes of brutal fighting in Europe? And I'm in no way devaluing the men/women who have perished during this war... it's just that if these numbers make Americans queasy now, then what would we do if the number was significantly higher? Our society now values the "quick fix" and the "way of least resistance". That attitude back in WW1/WW2 would not have served us well.

[Tex Arcana]

That may be the answer.

Don't get me wrong: I don't want war. War is hell; and it is an absolute LAST resort. We humans should be more advanced than our ancestors, we should be able to resolve all of our conflicts peacefully. SHOULD being the operative word: humanity as a whole has been very disappointing lately.

[Silver_2000]

And let's not forget Mexican oil, and South American. Who needs OPEC and Iraqi oil??

[sarcasm on]yeah we dont need Opec

They export 60% of the worlds oil and produce 45% of it ... Nah lets piss them off. [/sarcasm off]

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/topworldtables1_2.html

Venezuela is part of opec and is the biggest SA producer/exporter

Once again tex we disagree . This time the facts disagree with you as well ..

[Tex Arcana]

Tex,

It's certainly your perrogative to not watch Fox News, just like I refuse to watch anything with Tom Brokaw, or the station (ABC) that once used the late socialist Peter Jennings as an anchor. I also don't waste my time with the New York Times, The LA Times or several other far-leftist propaganda-producing publications.

While I will agree that Fox is more conservative than almost every other news station out there, it seems it was created b/c everything else that has been around in my lifetime that I can remember (last 25 years) is so far slanted to the left it's absurd. So I'll give you the issue regarding Fox, but any denying my point on the others is just ignorance.

I happen to agree somewhat with you on the Iraq war. "Shock and Awe" was a joke, but we are hamstrung by policies that make us "play nice". We could have ended the conflict a long time ago with more force, but I'm not sure the end result would be any better... albeit, it would have been quicker. I think the biggest miscalculation here was that by eliminating the dictator we would, in effect, throw the country into civil war with all these religions/sectarian factions fighting for control. They all hate each other... something that probably only those old enough to have been around during the pre-civil rights days can understand to any real extent.

I don't think this is all about oil though, or we'd already be sucking the country dry. We also would have been quicker to put our forces around the precious oil fields... something we are not guarding well enough even now, leading to a complete waste of the country's only real resource as they are being pillaged and vandalized to the point of slow operation.

Will it ever become a true democracy over there? It's a long shot at this point based on the past 4+ years. :( But I do think that was as big of a reason for this as trying to rid the world of a rich, cruel dictator. A democratic, Arab/Muslim-ruled ally in the middle-east would be a great thing... I just doubt it will ever happen.

What's unfortunate is that since this has not gone well, I am betting we'll leave ourselves open to bigger problems later on. But I supported the war when we started it, and I'm not going to completely bail on the policy now just b/c it hasn't gone as planned. The "sit back and sit on our hands" approach doesn't work either.

As far as WW2, we might have entered the war earlier had we had media coverage like we do today, but I'm not sure we'd have stayed the course. People are going crazy over 3000+ dead in 4+ years in Iraq. What would they have done over that number dead in 30 minutes of brutal fighting in Europe? And I'm in no way devaluing the men/women who have perished during this war... it's just that if these numbers make Americans queasy now, then what would we do if the number was significantly higher? Our society now values the "quick fix" and the "way of least resistance". That attitude back in WW1/WW2 would not have served us well.


WW2, and society back then, was very, very different than today. Remember, i grew up with a father who *was* a WW2 vet, with parents who both went thru the Depression; and with a grandmother/grandaunt who were born at or before the previous turn of the century: and I know how they and their contemporaries thought. WW2 was a world threat, led by Hitler and his gang, and even with greater media saturation, we Americans of that era would have stepped up to the plate and done what had to be done (which, it seems, is a trait of Depression-era survivors, because no matter how messed up you were in the head, you still had to *survive*, no matter what it took); plus, that was a direct threat to the nation, where the susequent actions were not, which I think is the biggest reason you get a large portion of people saying "STOP IT".

As for the present action: I support our troops, and I want them to come home as whole and as safe as possible. My disagreement with "policy" does not extend to them (like it mistakenly did with VietNam), nor will it ever. I'll stick to riding the politicians out of town on a rail, tarred and feathered. ;)

[Tex Arcana]

[sarcasm on]yeah we dont need Opec

They export 60% of the worlds oil and produce 45% of it ... Nah lets piss them off. [/sarcasm off]

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/topworldtables1_2.html

Venezuela is part of opec and is the biggest SA producer/exporter

Once again tex we disagree . This time the facts disagree with you as well ..

Indeed so: I wasn't aware that Venezuela was part of OPEC.

Even so, the combined production from China, Russia, Mexico and Brazil is enough to offset the loss from the OPEC countries (and Chinese/Russian production is at the low end of the ramp-up--there's a boatload more to come from them in the near future). And when you toss in the Angolan fields (which are so huge they still don't know exactly how much is down there, except that it's in the TRILLIONS of barrels)... well, you get my point: waging war for oil is a waste of lives, time, and money. And if Iraq is that smalla drop in the bucket, why are we wasting our time?? Bring the troops home, spend the money HERE where it's needed most, and let them beat each other with their shoes.

[BC Lightning]

In my view the weapon of mass destruction was hung not too long ago, however people want a quick fix and if its not there it never was there. Sadaam was a very intelligent man and if the World's super power was coming to my door step, I'd get rid of everything I could and ship it to neighboring countries that house terrorism. Like Wes said, the main problem is we weren’t expecting a civil war to break out.

I too have relatives that fought in WW2. I actually just met yesterday a WW2 vet who fought in Eugima (sp??) and any one who was there is a far stronger man than I am.

This being a war over oil is just a cop-out or a scapegoat.

I do however disagree with our need to be the big brother to every country and feel the need to try and Americanize countries that have be at war since Biblical times. I would still like to see the numbers of people killed do to gang violence in LA County in the last 4 years

[WA 2 FST]

In my view the weapon of mass destruction was hung not too long ago, however people want a quick fix and if its not there it never was there. Sadaam was a very intelligent man and if the World's super power was coming to my door step, I'd get rid of everything I could and ship it to neighboring countries that house terrorism.


But since we didn't find any, Bush is the biggest liar in the history of mankind, right? At least that's what every Democrat in the US is screaming at the top of their lungs (with a lot of effect, I might add).

The American people are stupid. We blow with the wind, and we forget easily, and the latest character flaw is a complete unwillingness to take responsibility (and this does not just go for politicians).



This being a war over oil is just a cop-out or a scapegoat.



Which is why I disagree with the notion that oil is the primary reason we went to war in the first place. If it was, we'd have every Iraqi oil field under US military control.

This was about removing a dictator who was a problem at the local, national, and to a lesser extent the global level (but it wouldn't have been to a lesser extent had we left him in power for another 10-20yrs + his sons left to run the country after he was dead). It was also about "nation building", and I'm with Michael... I don't think it's necessarily our job to police everyone, but then I tend to be more isolationist at times (and I fully understand the fault with that thinking as well). We've fought terrorism in Afghanistan and now in Iraq... who's next? Iran? N. Korea?

No that won't happen... the Dems will claim the White House next time and the military will be cut in 1/2 again. Then 4-8 years from then we'll be back at war with some country that fostered another terrorist attack on our soil. It's a vicious cycle, and I don't see it ending anytime soon.