So whaddaya think about this UAW strike?

[mikelemoine]

Figured I'd get the ball rolling. While I agree GM needs to take decent care of it's employees, I do think the UAW is killing the American companies. Sooner or later, they will drive all production out of the US to get away from their shenanigans.

My company deals with unions in the NE from time to time. Its not uncommon to be forced to hire unskilled union workers to watch our crews install our equipment. We can't even use the union guys to help since they don't know our product and aren't interested in learning anyway. We just pay off the union so we can get in and do our job. Bugs me!

[L8 APEX]

The unions are grossly out dated and need to be flushed. They did serve a purpose when people's rights were being abused along with child labor, fire hazards etc. But now they just serve to keep the incompetent employed and make sure even the night shift janitor makes $50 bucks an hour and has free health care for his 7 kids. 70% of the cost of GM vehicles is employee overhead that is BS. GM pays more each year for employee health insurance than it does steel to make CARS!!! I am sick and tired of unions choking out this country's ability to do good work at a reasonable price. I have had to work in union shops and give training and they are the absolute worst. They sleep on the job, and only care about their next lunch break or vacation:flaming:

[Ohmsby]

be careful what you ask for...... :tex

The UAW has long handicapped us auto production with a sense of entitlement.

flame suit on

[Silver_2000]

Figured I'd get the ball rolling. While I agree GM needs to take decent care of it's employees, I do think the UAW is killing the American companies. Sooner or later, they will drive all production out of the US to get away from their shenanigans.

My company deals with unions in the NE from time to time. Its not uncommon to be forced to hire unskilled union workers to watch our crews install our equipment. We can't even use the union guys to help since they don't know our product and aren't interested in learning anyway. We just pay off the union so we can get in and do our job. Bugs me!

I have seen the same at Hotels - especially in Vegas

6 guys to run a forklift - show up late - work slow - always end up running up overtime - 5-10 people to do the job of 2. Why do the job right once when you can do it slow and wrong before your break one more time after your break and then get paid OT to finally do it right ...

[Ohmsby]

I have seen the same at Hotels - especially in Vegas

6 guys to run a forklift - show up late - work slow - always end up running up overtime - 5-10 people to do the job of 2. Why do the job right once when you can do it slow and wrong before your break one more time after your break and then get paid OT to finally do it right ...


+1

[dboat]

I cant wait to see what Scott in Wichita has to say about this thread.. he is a BIG supporter of the union..

[dboat]

I will say this.. in Erie, the unions were good for the working folks here for years. However, those same unions due to inflexible negotiations have created a tremendous amount of job losses here more recently. When companies that are here pickup and move to other states or other countries, it says it all. I wont go on much more, but that is the truth, at least here in Erie.
Dana

[bluesvt]

I'm in a union but I find it to be a bunch of B.S. For god sakes they are supporting Hillary Clinton. Need I say more???:rolleyes:

[Mark #2]

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4590

[Mika]

Gm going overseas. It's arleady happening. Same with Ford(hecho en Mexico, and fabrique au Canada). As far as unions go, they're out for themselves, and nobody else. Sorry, but janitors shouldn't get paid 6 figures.



Mika

[f150freak]

What truly sucks is I work at the GM plant. To get the strike pay joining the picket line is mandatory. And the union is requiring a 24/7 picket line, i've been called in to picket at ****ing 2:30am for a 4 hour picket duty. I don't want to strike, in fact I was one of only 4% at the plant that voted not to strike if it came down to it. So yeah, if anyone is driving around the plant between 2:30am to 6:30am i'll be there and y'all will probably want to point and laugh.

[Sparkchaser271]

Dana, your right. I am a strong supporter of Unions. I am a proud member of I.B.E.W. (Electrician). However, some Unions are out of line with their demands. The reason I believe Unions should exist are to protect the workers rights. Without Unions do you believe there would be Overtime? 40 hour work weeks? Retirement benefits? Medical Insurance? The list goes on and on.
Without Unions we as workers would no earn a decent living. The CEO's and Owners would be even more filthy rich than they are. While we would starve working 80 hour weeks for next to nothing.

[L8 APEX]

You speak of the late 1800's to early 1900's Sparky. I have worked since I was 14 and every company I have worked for and there were many have paid overtime over 40. All paid competitive wages, offered good benefits, insurance and cared for their employees. Employers need good employees and must take care of them or they will loose them. Modern day unions only hurt America's workforce and bottom line. Unions have made incompetent employees untouchable by management.

[Silver_2000]

You speak of the late 1800's to early 1900's Sparky. I have worked since I was 14 and every company I have worked for and there were many have paid overtime over 40. All paid competitive wages, offered good benefits, insurance and cared for their employees. Employers need good employees and must take care of them or they will loose them. Modern day unions only hurt America's workforce and bottom line. Unions have made incompetent employees untouchable by management.

He will say that unions introduced those concepts to the workplace and without unions we will eventually all become indentured servants again

Its brainwashing pure and simple - unions are the reason that US car makers are declining - because the ONLY blue color people that can afford the poorly made crap, are union employees and they all get big discounts - which means no profit -
Im sorry but turning a screwdriver and spitting chaw shouldnt be paying $40 an hour :hammer:

Flame on

Read the link that mark posted - :bows

[Sparkchaser271]

I guess I am brainwashed. I can turn a screwdriver and I spit tobacco, but I don't earn $40 an hour. I am Skilled Labor. I went through a five year apprenticeship program. I took a 6 Hour test to receive my Masters Liscense. I take a minimum 24 Hours of Continuing Education courses a year. I deserve what I am paid.
I cannot argue about the UAW, the Teamsters or any other Union. I can only argue for what my Union stands for. Alot of the Unions, Like Teamsters, UAW and such, gives ALL Unions a bad name. Kansas is a right to work state. I work around Non-Union electrical contractors that pay up to $10 an hour less, and yet we win the jobs with a lower bid. Also I could give you a ton of Pro-Union article to read, but I don't want to brainwash you too. You are entitled to believe what you want to believe, this is America.

[StormShadow]

I work for AT&T in a union job but am no longer in the union nor do I pay union dues. I bought into everything that the union preached until I actually needed them to take care of something for me and they pretty much turned their shoulder on me. I currently have a grievance that was supposed to be heard on he 20th and everytime I see the local chief steward he ducks out the back door. So F the union, I'm sure AT&T will be on strike in the next few years over our new contract.

I am hearing that AT&T wants to lower our wages by $16an hour plus they are already hiring temporary full time employees with a 3 year contract that should overlap our "strike". Last time we had a "scheduled strike" meaning the union and the company figured out how long we had to be out and not getting paid for them to save enough money to pay our benefits for us. Either way it came out the same for us we just ended up with 4 extra days off (unpaid) CWA is in the same bed with the company so I quit paying dues and quit expecting anything from the union and just enjoy my good money.

This year with all of the rain we have gotten I have already put in over 400hours of overtime and will make close to 100k this year. I get tired of hearing that union workers are unskilled and overpaid. I know I bust my ass and I'm at work more than I'm at home and I work in the "hood" in whatever weather happens to roll in and I'm there everyday so I feel like my wages are justly earned. I know that if they didn't pay me what they do I'd probably say F this the first time we came under service emergency which is 10 hours a day 7 days a week. (we have done 3 months continuous this summer as well as 2 months combined thruout the year). Communications services are too important ,especially 911 access, to not have dedicated and skilled employees that take pride in their work

I think it's funny when I hear people who have a college degree that aren't making what they think they should make say that someone else shouldn't make $30+ an hour to do physical or skilled labor. That sounds like more of a sense of entitlement to me.

So F the union and quit having penis envy of people working with their hands making a good living. Rant over

[Sparkchaser271]

I hear ya. Like a Postman, rain, sleet, snow or shine. Tornadoes, Hailstorms, Hurricanes, we fight the weather to restore services to everyone.
I really don't know much about strikes. If we cannot agree on a contract, our Union and Contractors go D.C. for mediation. They hear both sides and decide what should happen. Last time we received more than we were asking for. We have a No Strike clause, so we have no work stoppage.

[Silver_2000]

I think it's funny when I hear people who have a college degree that aren't making what they think they should make say that someone else shouldn't make $30+ an hour to do physical or skilled labor. That sounds like more of a sense of entitlement to me.

So F the union and quit having penis envy of people working with their hands making a good living. Rant over

I dont have a degree and dont have a sense of entitlement, and dont think Im underpaid. BUT I have had MANY MANY MANY BAD experiences with unions and union workers. Its not simply a stereotype its reality. Union workers in US auto plants build some really BAD quality cars. Unions workers in the Hotel industry are the lazyiest and the least productive group of people I have ever seen. Unions workers in the airline industry have turned that industry into one of the most hated experiences. Whenever the focus is on NOT working then the function is broken.

Unions have bankrupted companies in many industries. Chrysler, many airlines, it goes on and on. You CANT argue that the unions are a BIG reason if not the biggest that the Auto makers are losing market share and going bankrupt. Having toured MANY auto plants, Its my opinion that someone who is attaching interior parts to a car with a Phillips head screw isnt entitled to 100k a year to use your number. I don't see how a rote, memorized, assembly line job is skilled labor. I don't care how many jobs have been learned over the years. I have worked plenty of those kinds of jobs.

[98Cobra]

I agree with Doug. If there is a SKILL involved - like stringing power lines, repairing infrastructure, what have you - then you deserve whatever you can make. Not sure you need a union though - if you don't like the compensation, go work somewhere else that you do like the compensation, like all the other skilled labor out there. Its a free market.

OTOH, if all you do is watch the machine mount and inflate tires on rims at a car factory, you do not deserve to be making tons of cash. If your job can be done by a robot, it may be time to find a new job.

[StormShadow]

i dont have any experience with auto workers or their union but i see that their 2 day strike is over just like ours was. im not pointing a finger at you in particular doug i have been reading dfwstangs and that thread got me fired up then i came here and saw this thread. i dont post on dfwstangs because i dont care about those people but i like to have dialog with my buddies over here where i care what they think. we have sorry workers in the union in our company that abuse the system and dont deserve what they make but dont group us all in that category because in my profession most of us take pride in our work and dont like hearing that we are lazy and overpaid just because you may have had a bad impression of union workers. but as i have stated f the union they are just out to make their money not to take care of the members.

[SILVER2000SVT]

The job has somewhat to do with what you are paid, If your job is dangerous you probably deserve to get paid more. On the other hand you should also get paid what you are worth. Anybody can physically work hard and they should get paid more than the lazy person. If you are an educated or skilled worker you should get paid more because you are worth more than just a physical laborer. However if any Joe Blow off the street can learn your job in a few weeks or even a few months for that matter you probably shouldn't consider yourself a skilled worker.

[gbgary]

So whaddaya think about this UAW strike?

what strike?

http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Silver_2000]

i dont have any experience with auto workers or their union but i see that their 2 day strike is over just like ours was. im not pointing a finger at you in particular doug i have been reading dfwstangs and that thread got me fired up then i came here and saw this thread. i dont post on dfwstangs because i dont care about those people but i like to have dialog with my buddies over here where i care what they think. we have sorry workers in the union in our company that abuse the system and dont deserve what they make but dont group us all in that category because in my profession most of us take pride in our work and dont like hearing that we are lazy and overpaid just because you may have had a bad impression of union workers. but as i have stated f the union they are just out to make their money not to take care of the members.
No worries adam - I its a discussion - I know its not personal - I didnt mean it that way either ...

[G'Lightning]

I hear ya. Like a Postman, rain, sleet, snow or shine. Tornadoes, Hailstorms, Hurricanes, we fight the weather to restore services to everyone.
I really don't know much about strikes. If we cannot agree on a contract, our Union and Contractors go D.C. for mediation. They hear both sides and decide what should happen. Last time we received more than we were asking for. We have a No Strike clause, so we have no work stoppage.
Who invited this guy??:tongue:

[mikelemoine]

Lots of good comments and opinions. I guess its safe to say that not all union workers are lazy or unmotivated, but the ones that are tend to bring the rest down. Doug can probably relate from his experiences, there is always that one guy with his union patches, baseball cap and shirt "local XXXX" that does nothing but gripe, argue and file grievances! Perhaps those guys gravitate towards the union because they can hide and get away with stuff they'd be canned for in the free market. The ones that bug me are the unskilled or supposedly skilled workers forced upon companies that don't really need them.

Another point that can be mentioned is that a union in KS, Vegas or even TX is not quite the same as one in NYC, Chicago, Boston, etc. The Northern unions are much more forceful and the members tend to be more extreme (Talibanish). They threatened to kill one of our installers when his union payment didn't arrive by Fedex for a couple days. Some rough fellas up there!

Anyway, hope none of the hard working union folks took it the wrong way, just interesting to hear what everyone has to say.

[f150freak]

The job has somewhat to do with what you are paid, If your job is dangerous you probably deserve to get paid more. On the other hand you should also get paid what you are worth. Anybody can physically work hard and they should get paid more than the lazy person. If you are an educated or skilled worker you should get paid more because you are worth more than just a physical laborer. However if any Joe Blow off the street can learn your job in a few weeks or even a few months for that matter you probably shouldn't consider yourself a skilled worker.

Thats actually part of the problem with GM. Most of the jobs inside the plant are unskilled labor jobs on the assembly line. Most people would learn one of these jobs in a matter of hours. Even I say the pay we get does not reflect our skill. A trained chimp would probably do my job for a few bananas a day.

[Silver_2000]

Thats actually part of the problem with GM. Most of the jobs inside the plant are unskilled labor jobs on the assembly line. Most people would learn one of these jobs in a matter of hours. Even I say the pay we get does not reflect our skill. A trained chimp would probably do my job for a few bananas a day.

:tu::tu: Honesty

[Mika]

It seems to me that *most* unions nowadays are out for themselves, and nobody else. I'm not saying that all unions are like that, but I kind of find it hard to justify janitors making close to or over $100k.

What really sucks is that like any other group, all it takes is one or two bad examples to make everyone seem like they're scum.





Mika

[charlie]

Union..... The word alone leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

As far as worth? What determines this? I say I'm more valuable and contribute more to a production environment than a "Safety" manager. But they sure do make more money than me. But then again the Safety manager might say the same about them selves. Pay all depends on the company, and the profit they make yearly. My job is electro/mechanical maintenance. In other words I work on, repair and modify high speed manufacturing equipment, every thing from the mechanical repair to changing, modifying the programs and electrical systems. And yes I do have the degree to go with it. Sound valuable? Considering every time a machine goes down it cost the company thousands of dollars. And yet my salary range in the DFW area is from 15.00 and hour to $30.00 and hour. And it all depends on what company it is. I don't make 30 an hour. But I'm getting there.
And no I do not worry about my job. I bust my a$$ every day, and I keep things running smooth. As far as a lay off. Lets just say there are a few, with more seniority than me that will go first. If it where a union, it would not be this way.

Charlie

[dboat]

As far as worth? What determines this? Charlie

Economic theory generally does rule over time.. your worth is really dependent on what it costs to replace you and the availability of your skill in the marketplace.

Hence, when we charge too much for our services, we see our services being lost and then those same services going overseas..

Dana

[charlie]

Economic theory generally does rule over time.. your worth is really dependent on what it costs to replace you and the availability of your skill in the marketplace.

Hence, when we charge too much for our services, we see our services being lost and then those same services going overseas..

Dana


Ding ding ding..... We have a winner!

Ironically enough. The biggest reason my company has not moved over seas, is because of the unions up north. I work for Victor (Victor torch) The welders will not buy imported gear. Well most any way.

Charlie

[dboat]

Ding ding ding..... We have a winner!

Ironically enough. The biggest reason my company has not moved over seas, is because of the unions up north. I work for Victor (Victor torch) The welders will not buy imported gear. Well most any way.

Charlie

:D:D