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View Full Version : $200 a barrel, "if supplies are disrupted"



Wht95Lightning
05-20-2008, 09:09 AM
Time to buy a bicycle. :eek2:

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/653285.html



Oil rises to $127; gas could top $4 soon

By KEVIN G. HALL
McClatchy Newspapers


WASHINGTON -- Oil prices rose to another record Monday, settling above $127 for the first time as gasoline prices continued to move toward $4 a gallon.
Light, sweet crude for June delivery jumped 76 cents to settle at a record $127.05 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. At this level, gasoline prices -- already averaging $3.79 a gallon -- could hit $4 a gallon next month, Geoff Sundstrom, fuel-price analyst at AAA, told The Associated Press.
Are these once unthinkable prices a high-water point, or just another pause on an upward march?
No one knows for sure. Experts argue forcefully for a fallback or a continued rise. Here are some answers to questions about what comes next for rising oil and gasoline prices.
Some analysts predict $200 a barrel. Is this possible?
Goldman Sachs & Co. recently grabbed headlines with a research note that examined that possibility. In March 2005, Goldman suggested that oil could pass $100 a barrel, and its call now seems prophetic. On March 16, Goldman forecast an average oil price of $141 a barrel for the second half of 2008 and a spike to $200 a barrel if supplies are disrupted.
If world economic growth remains solid and the U.S. economy begins rebounding in the second half of 2008, it's likely that oil prices, and thus gasoline prices, would go even higher.
"If we got back on a fast global growth track, that would put additional pressure into an oil market where new capacity is being delayed, postponed, not developed," said Daniel Yergin, an oil historian who runs Cambridge Energy Research Associates.
If oil prices rise high enough, wouldn't that lead to less consumption, more supply and lower prices?
That's the definition of demand destruction, where prices rise to an unsustainable level and fall back. It seemed we were there at $90 a barrel, $100 a barrel and so on. The U.S. Energy Information Administration and the Paris-based International Energy Agency both have revised downward their forecasts for oil demand this year in the United States and globally.
"The important point is it is still demand growth," said John Felmy, chief economist for the American Petroleum Institute, the lobby for Big Oil.
Are the fundamentals of supply and demand in play, or are these high prices the result of speculation?
Clearly, there are underlying problems of supply. Production is flat in Russia, the world's second-ranked oil giant after Saudi Arabia. Civil unrest in Nigeria is knocking out about 1 million barrels per day. Iraq has never returned to prewar production levels. Increasingly belligerent Venezuela has seen production fall year after year, and Mexico seems unable to reverse a production decline.
On the demand side, the global economy seems to have shrugged off the U.S. downturn, and China and the Middle East are each gobbling up about a third of new oil production for their fast-growing economies. The recent earthquake in China is likely to increase the need for oil, both for reconstruction and for power needs. Japan is consuming at least 200,000 barrels a day more than it otherwise would have after a decision to close some nuclear reactors.
With these variables at play, it's easy to see why investors who are nervous about the stock market or a falling U.S. dollar would see a safer bet on oil prices going even higher.
So it's not speculation?
That question is now being hotly debated. The Commodities Futures Trading Commission, which regulates the trading of contracts for future delivery of oil -- called futures -- believes that big pension funds and other institutional investors may accentuate a trend but are not the cause of high prices.
"If the fundamentals weren't strong, you couldn't play on the margin [speculate] in any event," said Frank Verrastro, director of energy programs for the policy-research group Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Others, including Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., believe that the "Enron Loophole" is to blame. This removed from regulation the electronic trading of oil futures by large traders. Some experts believe that oil traders are pushing trades into less-regulated overseas markets where they can escape direct scrutiny by U.S. regulators.
What's being done about this loophole?
A farm bill passed by the Senate last week by a veto-proof margin includes a provision to close this loophole and bring greater record keeping and scrutiny to electronic trading of oil futures.
Democratic presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton want the loophole closed. A top adviser to GOP candidate John McCain said the candidate has no position on the issue.


:vomit:

wesman
05-21-2008, 11:24 AM
They should at least make some of these speculators have some damn skin in the game....when guys are able to leverage 5M worth of oil with only 50k of their own money they have nothing to lose by driving up the price of oil. Screw the margin crap....make them buy the oil with *real* money and I guarantee that there won't be as much speculation.

--wes

dboat
05-21-2008, 12:43 PM
They should at least make some of these speculators have some damn skin in the game....when guys are able to leverage 5M worth of oil with only 50k of their own money they have nothing to lose by driving up the price of oil. Screw the margin crap....make them buy the oil with *real* money and I guarantee that there won't be as much speculation.

--wes
or at least "put on deposit" so that if they lose out, the money is tied up.. or is that what you were trying to say..

wesman
05-21-2008, 12:46 PM
or at least "put on deposit" so that if they lose out, the money is tied up.. or is that what you were trying to say..

Right, if they want 5M worth of oil, they need to pony up the 5M in real money/assets. This paper trading crap is bogus....it's time to make some changes to the financial sector in this country....instead of suing OPEC perhaps they should look in their own backyard.

--wes

dboat
05-21-2008, 12:47 PM
I am thinking one of the things I would do is institute a regulation that all motor vehicles must move to synthetic lubricants within a 3 year time frame.. this way we can stop using oil for that purpose and use it for fuel. Also, it would hopefully increase the gas mileage for all vehicles, even if only slightly. Also, if the companies that produce this are aware of the pending increase in volumes, the price of syn should go down..

Dana

dboat
05-21-2008, 12:54 PM
We need to suspend the aversion to drilling off or our own coasts and ANWAR.. this is just stupid for now.. problem is, if oil and gas go back down, everyone will forget about it and will want to go back to the way things were.. we do need to change some things, but the best way to do that is via incentives..

For some that are young here.. when we ran into this issue in the 70's, there were tax incentives to increase the insulation in your home..there should be heavy incentives for folks to replace their heating and a/c to highly efficient units, to give tax breaks to those that choose to purchase high mpg auto and trucks, etc.. to utilize new technologies in roofing, paint, insulation, etc.. for your home.. to award to auto companies cash for developing a safe and reasonable car that gets 150 mpg and then sells at least 50,000 units of them a year.. This way we all win..

Dana

03LightningRocks
05-25-2008, 01:14 PM
We need to suspend the aversion to drilling off or our own coasts and ANWAR.. this is just stupid for now.. problem is, if oil and gas go back down, everyone will forget about it and will want to go back to the way things were.. we do need to change some things, but the best way to do that is via incentives..

For some that are young here.. when we ran into this issue in the 70's, there were tax incentives to increase the insulation in your home..there should be heavy incentives for folks to replace their heating and a/c to highly efficient units, to give tax breaks to those that choose to purchase high mpg auto and trucks, etc.. to utilize new technologies in roofing, paint, insulation, etc.. for your home.. to award to auto companies cash for developing a safe and reasonable car that gets 150 mpg and then sells at least 50,000 units of them a year.. This way we all win..

Dana


There are incentives for people to replace old AC equipment with high efficiency equipment. I don't know that the average person is willing to look past their nose for the savings. Quite frankly, our government is already giving away to much money. It's our money they are giving away. People shouldn't have to be bribed to do what's right. Now it's time to pay the piper. For years I have tried to get home owners to understand the benefits in replacing equipment with high efficiency equipment. Some believe it...some choose not to. One problem we have is that too many service companies and technicians are all to ready to sell people what they want. What people want is to hear that they can get "bids" and go with the cheapest AC equipment and it won't make a difference in their bills. That is about to change..:evil

Silver_2000
05-25-2008, 01:42 PM
Back on topic

An article in the News paces most of the gas price blame on the weakness of the dollar and the financial markets.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/052508dnbusoil.3b6d23a.html



Oil insiders say investors using fear of low supply to drive up prices

12:33 AM CDT on Sunday, May 25, 2008

By JIM LANDERS and ELIZABETH SOUDER / The Dallas Morning News
jlanders@dallasnews.com; esouder@dallasnews.com You're paying way more for gasoline than common sense would suggest, and you might be surprised by who's to blame.
Not the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. It lost control of the markets 20 years ago. Not Big Oil. It contributes only a sliver of global oil supply. Not the government. The U.S. investment in oil is relatively small.
Also Online
T. Boone Pickens' prediction: Oil production is reaching its peak (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/industries/energy/stories/050508dnbusoilsidebar.3b519e7.html)
Download: Factors in the high cost of oil (.pdf) (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/05-08/0525oil.pdf)


Each of these former powerhouses influences the market sometimes, but these days what's driving prices higher is a rush of new investors. From professional fund managers to regular people trying to make a buck, investors with no interest in actually owning oil are pouring billions of dollars into oil markets.
Those investors are banking on fears that it will become much more difficult and expensive to produce oil, and, eventually, the world might not have enough.

dboat
05-25-2008, 05:01 PM
There are incentives for people to replace old AC equipment with high efficiency equipment. I don't know that the average person is willing to look past their nose for the savings. Quite frankly, our government is already giving away to much money. It's our money they are giving away. People shouldn't have to be bribed to do what's right. Now it's time to pay the piper. For years I have tried to get home owners to understand the benefits in replacing equipment with high efficiency equipment. Some believe it...some choose not to. One problem we have is that too many service companies and technicians are all to ready to sell people what they want. What people want is to hear that they can get "bids" and go with the cheapest AC equipment and it won't make a difference in their bills. That is about to change..:evil

Rocks, I agree.. but sometimes it just takes the govt getting involved for folks to start to react to do the right thing.. since I have to worry about heat moreso than a/c up here.. I have a 98% efficient furnace.. I upgraded from the 95% one they were going to put in here.. plus I upgraded the fan motor as well. It will pay for itself over the long haul.. but since it takes twice as much energy to cool a house 1 degree as to heat it 1 degree, a/c is much more critical where you are. I even liked my two speed unit that I had at the house in Dallas.. but I digress. I am just thinking that if there was a really big push by the govt, we might see a lot more folks doing more to save energy in their homes.

Dana

03LightningRocks
05-25-2008, 05:13 PM
Rocks, I agree.. but sometimes it just takes the govt getting involved for folks to start to react to do the right thing.. since I have to worry about heat moreso than a/c up here.. I have a 98% efficient furnace.. I upgraded from the 95% one they were going to put in here.. plus I upgraded the fan motor as well. It will pay for itself over the long haul.. but since it takes twice as much energy to cool a house 1 degree as to heat it 1 degree, a/c is much more critical where you are. I even liked my two speed unit that I had at the house in Dallas.. but I digress. I am just thinking that if there was a really big push by the govt, we might see a lot more folks doing more to save energy in their homes.

Dana

From what I hear, the move you made with your furnace up there is the right move to make. Up until recently, the reason most folks struggle to put in high efficiency has to do with cost. There is a whole lot of confusing information about new AC equipment. How are folks going to realize what a large difference there is from the lowest to highest efficiency equipment when the lowest unit made is allowed to have the words "High Efficiency" stamped on it? People have a tremendous desire to believe they can get something for nothing, so all it takes is one goof ball technician to tell a homeowner the lowest efficiency unit is good enough and the home owner eats it up because now they can feel good about installing cheap a$$, sh!t equipment.

03LightningRocks
05-25-2008, 05:21 PM
Back on topic

An article in the News paces most of the gas price blame on the weakness of the dollar and the financial markets.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/052508dnbusoil.3b6d23a.html


Something about all that just pisses me off.:flaming:

Silver_2000
05-25-2008, 07:39 PM
Something about all that just pisses me off.:flaming:
Which is why I posted it ..

Its just not right

The wealthy are destroying the economy

L8 APEX
05-26-2008, 12:23 AM
We are witnessing the extinction of the middle class:tex:icon_eek:

I may take a gamble and stock up some fuel before hurricane season this year. The way it is going a little hit from a hurricane will spike the pumps hard this year...:hammer:

03LightningRocks
05-26-2008, 12:57 AM
We are witnessing the extinction of the middle class:tex:icon_eek:

I may take a gamble and stock up some fuel before hurricane season this year. The way it is going a little hit from a hurricane will spike the pumps hard this year...:hammer:

You may be right. Makes me wish I had some of those empty fuel drums I have sent back. Diesel would be relatively safe to have sitting in the garage. Unless of course the house catches fire. That would suck for sure. I would have to tell the FD to run like hell instead of trying to put out the fire. Between the diesel and ammo and powder I have, it could make for quite a sight.

Beaudee
05-26-2008, 08:00 PM
I parked the L. and put the cover on it.Freeking depressing.We need to drill for oil here in the states,fock the environmentalists!!!!!!!!!!