The first debate

[Mark #2]

Well, what do you think?

Obama called John McCain...Jim, Tom,?

Obama really doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to international or military issues.

Obama..."I have a bracelet too", not cool.:nono:

McCain had too many references to RR IMHO.

Kind of a draw.

[L8 APEX]

Bama was sharp on a few things.
McCain was convincing on his points. I just think Obama lacks experience to run the country. He is a short time flopper. I noticed he was wearing an American lapel pin tonight, when did that start...

[BC Lightning]

Well, what do you think?

Obama called John McCain...Jim, Tom,?



Jim was the guy from PBS news asking the questions

Obama said I have a bracelet too his name is uhh, ummm, uhh

Obama came out giving specifics, which is what he has lacked his entire campaign

Obama gave book history, McCain gave first hand history saying "I was there"

"His liberal voting puts him all the way to the left, its hard to reach across the aisle from there"

Personally I thought they both did very well, I liked McCain saying he hasn't made his White House agenda yet, since he doesn't have a seal, making fun of the home made Pres. seal Obama has been using on his campaign

I personally think for the swing voters its going to come down to the vice pres. Palin has a lead even though the republicans are guarding her, because the comments Biden are making are just crazy

If you want a great speaker then Obama is a great choice, if you want someone who is ready to lead the country McCain is the better choice, but not my first choice

[dboat]

Obama did ok.. but this was McCain's strong suit.. I think overall, I would have given McCain the edge.. since there werent any major gaffs by either guy.. I do think he has to be careful on how negative he may come across.. unfortunately, folks want their president to be someone they "like" and want him to seem "nice".. but personally, I want a redneck that isnt afraid of anyone.. "think Chuck Norris".. I want to know where a guy stands and frankly, Obama twists with the wind.. "think Jimmy Carter".. so you know where I stand on this one.. it is apparent that without the teleprompter, you get a lot more .. uhhhhs, and hesitation from Obama which goes against him.. not sure either one will get any kind of a bounce out of this one and that favors Obama.. the next presidential one deals with the economy I think and that one favors Obama, so we shall see how that one goes..

[BC Lightning]

Obama did ok.. but this was McCain's strong suit.. I think overall, I would have given McCain the edge.. since there werent any major gaffs by either guy.. I do think he has to be careful on how negative he may come across.. unfortunately, folks want their president to be someone they "like" and want him to seem "nice".. but personally, I want a redneck that isnt afraid of anyone.. "think Chuck Norris".. I want to know where a guy stands and frankly, Obama twists with the wind.. "think Jimmy Carter".. so you know where I stand on this one.. it is apparent that without the teleprompter, you get a lot more .. uhhhhs, and hesitation from Obama which goes against him.. not sure either one will get any kind of a bounce out of this one and that favors Obama.. the next presidential one deals with the economy I think and that one favors Obama, so we shall see how that one goes..

Bush "lost" every debate in the eyes of the media, and the polls showed the people thought he won, just goes to show you never really know

[WA 2 FST]

I don't like either of them, really. In fact, no one in the Republican party has made me excited since Reagan, and I was in high school back then.

But I refuse to listen to the liberal rhetoric and cast a vote for what I believe is a platform stacked against traditional family values this country was founded on... oh, and they want to take 50% of my income to pay for programs that will further bankrupt the country. No thanks.

The Repubs have lots of problems, I wouldn't deny if I'm being honest and objective, but they get my vote.

[Mark #2]

The SO wonders why McCain took her with so little experience, thinks Palin is a hindrance and the SO is all about strong women, but she would have liked to see a more experienced running mate.

Too many arbitrary data points for me, and I am all about data but it didn't do anything for me, and lots of false data I believe.

One good line for Palin
"Your plan is a white flag of surrender"

Bottom line,
They both did very well, tie for me again.

[ZeusSVT]

The SO wonders why McCain took her with so little experience, thinks Palin is a hindrance and the SO is all about strong women, but she would have liked to see a more experienced running mate.

Too many arbitrary data points for me, and I am all about data but it didn't do anything for me, and lots of false data I believe.

One good line for Palin
"Your plan is a white flag of surrender"

Bottom line,
They both did very well, tie for me again.

Good points Mark....I think it was pretty close to a tie tonight as well. I think she did alot better tonight though compared to what she did during the Katie interview. She had a few good one liners and the white flag one was the one that stuck out well to me as well.

I also thought that Biden's comment about the bridge to nowhere was rather humorous as well. All in all, a pretty good debate imo.

[WA 2 FST]

Debates trump "interviews", at least IMHO. The leftist, liberal media will never give an impartial interview to a social, economic, fundamentalist conservative... sorry, it just isn't going to happen. It's edited television, for crying out loud.

I didn't give Palin much of a chance going in, and I was very impressed by her tonight, but maybe only b/c my expectations were low. That doesn't mean she did any better than Biden, but I thought she'd get killed, and I thought she held her own.

Bottom line is that this debate didn't change anyone's mind on the issues... if you already knew where you stood on the issues. So in that case, neither side "won."

If people want "change" for the sake of change, then they won't vote for Biden. All he's going to promote is taking more of your money. There was one point in time where I honestly wanted to ask him a question... he said that his ticket would help to insure that working class America can pay to send their kids to college, get affordable health care, etc. But yet, he and Obama are wanting to increase taxes on folks with an income over $46k a year. This is idiotic, insane, and someone really needs to go back for an Economic 101 class.

People living _within their means_ (which, IMO is the crux of the financial problem...people NOT living within their means... fostered by policies that promote banks giving loans to folks who have no conceivable chance of paying them back) making $100k a year will struggle sending a child or two to college. C'mon Joe... wake up and smell the 21st century. Tax the guy more making 6-figures and give it to the guy making $35k... the guy making $35k still won't be able to send his kid to school, and now the $100k earner can't either.

[Silver_2000]

I guess the fact that the moderator who drafted the questions is on a book tour selling her book about Barack isnt important to the neutral media ....

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76645

Its all BS - no good question is asked and none of the asked questions are answered

Still a VPILF (http://vpilf.com/) though

[BC Lightning]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_el_pr/debate_fact_check

WASHINGTON - Republican Sarah Palin criticized a version of a Barack Obama health care plan that doesn't exist and Democrat Joe Biden clung to a misleading charge about Republicans and big oil when the two clashed in the vice presidential debate Thursday.

Some examples of facts cast adrift in the debate:

PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Obama: "94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction."

THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/ap/ap_on_el_pr/storytext/debate_fact_check/29351199/SIG=10muij34d/*http://factcheck.org) found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.
___
BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."

THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the crisis today from being worse.
___
PALIN: Criticized Obama's "plan to mandate health care coverage and have universal government run program" for health care, and added: "I don't think it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the Feds."

THE FACTS: Wrong on several counts. Obama's plan does not provide for universal coverage, only mandates insurance for children and doesn't turn the system over to the government. Most people would still get private insurance through their work. Obama proposes that the government subsidize the cost of health coverage for millions who have trouble affording it and he'd set up an exchange to negotiate prices and benefits with private insurers — with one option being a government-run plan.
___
BIDEN: Warned that Republican presidential candidate John McCain's $5,000 tax credit to help families buy health coverage "will go straight to the insurance company."

THE FACTS: That's not surprising — the money is meant to pay for health insurance. The Obama campaign tried to capitalize on the candidates' health care exchange by issuing an ad Friday contending that the Republicans can't explain "the McCain health tax."
___
PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."

THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control.
___

BIDEN: Said McCain supports tax breaks for oil companies, and "wants to give them another $4 billion tax cut."

THE FACTS: Biden is repeating a favorite saw of the Obama campaign, and it's misleading. McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn't single out any one industry for that benefit.
___
PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007.

THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began.
___
BIDEN: "As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry — deregulate it and let the free market move — like he did for the banking industry."

THE FACTS: Biden and Obama have been perpetuating this distortion of what McCain wrote in an article for the American Academy of Actuaries. McCain, laying out his health plan, only referred to deregulation when saying people should be allowed to buy health insurance across state lines. In that context, he wrote: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."
___
PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."

THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."
___
PALIN: "Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year."
BIDEN: "The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes."

THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed that President Bush's tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others.
___
PALIN: Said a McCain-Palin administration "will support Israel," including "building our embassy ... in Jerusalem."

THE FACTS: Moving the U.S. Embassy from its present location in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is a perennial promise of presidential candidates courting the Jewish-American vote. In fact, moving the embassy is actually required by U.S. law. But successive administrations of both parties, including George W. Bush's, have made the same pledge only to find that the realities of Middle East peacemaking have forced them to invoke a waiver to delay it. Jerusalem is claimed as a capital by both Israel and the Palestinians and Israel's occupation of east Jerusalem is not internationally recognized. The city's status is one of the key issues of disagreement in peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
___ Associated Press writers Tom Raum, Steve Quinn, Jim Kuhnhenn, Lolita Baldor and Matthew Lee contributed to this report.

[WA 2 FST]

FACT: If the Democrats get their way, I'll have less $$ to "invest" back into the economy. It will be harder for me to send my kids to college (not that they can't earn their own way). I still will be paying an exhorbitant amount for my own healthcare as a self-employed individual.

People can debate the war, right to life, drilling in ANWAR, saving spotted owls, etc.

The above statement cannot be debated.

"This message was approved by me."

[Mark #2]

Just more opinion tonight,

I liked the Nuke push by McCain, worked at LETI the French nuclear development facility and saw how they could put up a plant like we build McDonald's, cut and paste. An opportunity for Ohmsby?

Early on Taxes, Taxes, Taxes, entitlements, records and just a bunch of rhetoric.

Then it went Military and McCain is so much better on this topic.

Later on it went back to records and "Let me tell you my friend"...I am biased to the veteran.

[dboat]

Just more opinion tonight,

I liked the Nuke push by McCain, worked at LETI the French nuclear development facility and saw how they could put up a plant like we build McDonald's, cut and paste. An opportunity for Ohmsby?

Early on Taxes, Taxes, Taxes, entitlements, records and just a bunch of rhetoric.

Then it went Military and McCain is so much better on this topic.

Later on it went back to records and "Let me tell you my friend"...I am biased to the veteran.

agreed..

[BC Lightning]

Later on it went back to records and "Let me tell you my friend"...I am biased to the veteran.

Me too, no question which of the 2 is more qualified, but Obama kept putting McCain and Bush's name together, and lets face it thats all some people hear :throw:

[Mark #2]

I didn't like McCain's body language at all, he obviously just hates Obama.
I really liked the moderator, Bob Schieffer

Got really tired of the negative attack Ad discussion and "Joe the plumber" references.

Ayers and Acorn were good points for McCain
Obama had to do a lot of "splaining" on these

Repeating we need to go Nuclear on energy

It comes down to Tax policy, national health insurance, and other welfare programs of the Democrats at this point for me.

I am afraid that the best looking guy is going to win, there is some history on this, remember the "Back to the Future" movie?:D

[BC Lightning]

McCain was a little too late, "If you wanted to run against Bush, you should have 4 years ago" that should have been said way back in the RNC not the last debate

[dboat]

McCain was a little too late, "If you wanted to run against Bush, you should have 4 years ago" that should have been said way back in the RNC not the last debate

actually the timing of doing it here isnt bad... its close to the election and will take it out of the minds of the voter.. the dems would have brought it back up again anyway.. I think it will be said less and less now.


I didn't like McCain's body language at all, he obviously just hates Obama.
I really liked the moderator, Bob Schieffer

Got really tired of the negative attack Ad discussion and "Joe the plumber" references.

Ayers and Acorn were good points for McCain
Obama had to do a lot of "splaining" on these

Repeating we need to go Nuclear on energy

It comes down to Tax policy, national health insurance, and other welfare programs of the Democrats at this point for me.

I am afraid that the best looking guy is going to win, there is some history on this, remember the "Back to the Future" movie?:D

I would have said this whole mess is due to the cost of energy.. the extra cost of gasoline, electric, heating etc and then drove up the cost of food, goods, etc and then pushed a lot of folks that were making their mortgage over the edge, this precipitated the meltdown of mortgages.. I have an energy plan that includes putting all of our resources to work, I have a Vice President that knows about energy and I am willing to look at everything to get energy prices down. Yet you want to rule out and just conserve our way out of this and it cant be done.

Dana

[BC Lightning]

actually the timing of doing it here isnt bad... its close to the election and will take it out of the minds of the voter.. the dems would have brought it back up again anyway.. I think it will be said less and less now.

I just think that at this time all he did was fire up people who were already voting for McCain and not taking swing votes and pledged NObama votes to McCains side, maybe some of those who trust NObama wouldn't if McCain took this approach early

[WA 2 FST]

We're getting ready to elect a fool who will negotiate with terrorists, who has blatant ties with terrorists, who empathizes with Muslim extremists... I guess everyone forgot about 9/11 and just wants to cry over, what will amount to in the long run, a blip in the economic cycle; a blip created by a lot of poor policies on both sides of the table.

It's going to be a sad day in American history.

[BC Lightning]

We're getting ready to elect a fool who will negotiate with terrorists, who has blatant ties with terrorists, who empathizes with Muslim extremists... I guess everyone forgot about 9/11 and just wants to cry over, what will amount to in the long run, a blip in the economic cycle; a blip created by a lot of poor policies on both sides of the table.

It's going to be a sad day in American history.

I filled up today at 2.61 a gallon for 87, I think NObama is the reason for the drop in price of gas :rolleyes:

[mustgofaster]

We're getting ready to elect a fool who will negotiate with terrorists, who has blatant ties with terrorists, who empathizes with Muslim extremists... I guess everyone forgot about 9/11 and just wants to cry over, what will amount to in the long run, a blip in the economic cycle; a blip created by a lot of poor policies on both sides of the table.

It's going to be a sad day in American history.


Isn't that the truth!

[BC Lightning]

I filled up today at 2.61 a gallon for 87, I think NObama is the reason for the drop in price of gas :rolleyes:

Gas is under $69 a barrel, yet it was over $80 to fill up my Tahoe, I know I didn't use a whole barrel of oil

[L8 APEX]

147 to fill up last Sunday, I was thrilled:icon_rolleyes:

[TXLIGHTNING]

Filled my truck up for 3.01gal prem, only took $68 bucks.

[L-Fever]

I'm voting for the chick! She can see Russia from her back yard! :icon_mrgreen:

[Silver_2000]

u think its a coincidence that gas prices are falling as we near the election ?

[Mark #2]

We're getting ready to elect a fool who will negotiate with terrorists, who has blatant ties with terrorists, who empathizes with Muslim extremists... I guess everyone forgot about 9/11 and just wants to cry over, what will amount to in the long run, a blip in the economic cycle; a blip created by a lot of poor policies on both sides of the table.

It's going to be a sad day in American history.

It looks like it is over to me.
Can't wait for my estimated $6K tax increase:tu:

[WA 2 FST]

It's all over except for the guy who will show up and pull $$ out of your wallet.

[dboat]

It looks like it is over to me.
Can't wait for my estimated $6K tax increase:tu:

Yep, once they called Ohio.. it was over.. I did my part and voted today but it didnt make a difference... :mad:

I have already spoken to an atty that I work with.. he is thinking of moving to England.. honestly..

Dana

[Mark #2]

Yep, once they called Ohio.. it was over.. I did my part and voted today but it didnt make a difference... :mad:

I have already spoken to an atty that I work with.. he is thinking of moving to England.. honestly..

Dana
I believe they have tax rates in the 40% range
I sure hope that is not better than the USA.

[dboat]

I believe they have tax rates in the 40% range
I sure hope that is not better than the USA.

I think it was taxes mixed with the expected revised social economics and the move to socialism that is putting him over the line.

[WA 2 FST]

He should consider New Zealand over England. I wouldn't move to Europe for any reason. They are much farther to the left in social and moral issues than we are in the U.S. Anyway, he can immigrate to NZ if he's a successful lawyer. I can't. I don't make enough $$ and my business isn't something I can up and move to another country. NZ is very strict on its immigration laws... what a concept.

Amazing... we just elected a "Hussein" to office.

[Ohmsby]

Should be an interesting ride........"spread the wealth"

[98Cobra]

I've been to NZ and seriously considered moving there. They do have VERY strict rules for immigration. Its easy to see why if you go.

[BC Lightning]

I still have faith in the checks and balances, but I might just be naive, I just hope Obama isn't a rubber stamp for everything Congress wants to pass

We will see who Obama is truly here soon

[Silver_2000]

I still have faith in the checks and balances, but I might just be naive, I just hope Obama isn't a rubber stamp for everything Congress wants to pass

We will see who Obama is truly here soon

the checks and balances are dulled significantly when the congress and the pres are all the same

[dboat]

the checks and balances are dulled significantly when the congress and the pres are all the same

The only good news is that the Dems didnt pick up enough seats (60) to be able to override a filibuster.. that is our only check in the system now..

Dana

[WA 2 FST]

the checks and balances are dulled significantly when the congress and the pres are all the same

Here's the thing... Clinton had it that way, too. He wasn't as liberal as Obama appears to be (again, he doesn't have enough history to really know 100% for sure). At least the Repubs can filibuster with 44-45 seats in the Senate.

If Obama is smart and wants to be a 2-termer, then he will stay more towards the middle. If he strays too far left, then he'll get dumped in 4 years and, in the meantime after 2 years the mid-term elections will go Repub and he will no longer have a controlling Congress behind him.

Hopefully BC is right. We'll see.

[Moonshine]

IMHO, we've taken another significant step towards the demise of the republic.:icon_sad:

[dboat]

IMHO, we've taken another significant step towards the demise of the republic.:icon_sad:

+1

and am glad that you stated it correctly.. we are a Republic..

Dana

[toddwarren]

Well one good thing I noticed in a night of frustration is California is voting those Lesbians and Pipe pushers cant legally be married anymore!
I still am bitter, and I am bitter at the left media that annoited Obama
even when he was going against that witch Hillary Clinton.
The Republicans are going to have to retool and get some youth in their canidates! Another thing is the Republicans cant be out spent 600miliion to 80 million! Most uneducated voters make a determination for president by watching the TV ads.

[dboat]

Another thing is the Republicans cant be out spent 600miliion to 80 million! Most uneducated voters make a determination for president by watching the TV ads.

and now the internet.. that was the most listed method by which the youth vote got their info..

Dana

[Ohmsby]

IMHO, we've taken another significant step towards the demise of the republic.:icon_sad:

wise words

[WA 2 FST]

Well one good thing I noticed in a night of frustration is California is voting those Lesbians and Pipe pushers cant legally be married anymore!
I still am bitter, and I am bitter at the left media that annoited Obama
even when he was going against that witch Hillary Clinton.
The Republicans are going to have to retool and get some youth in their canidates! Another thing is the Republicans cant be out spent 600miliion to 80 million! Most uneducated voters make a determination for president by watching the TV ads.

Todd, being a conservative, right-wing, Christian like you... I agree with everything you said here.

Going back post-Jimmy Carter (I was just a kid then), the fact is that to be President, you really need some charisma. The only one to defy that since Carter was Bush Sr, and he only got in b/c of Reagan, and had really no shot vs. the professional politician Slick Willy.

To me, it was amazing that John McCain was supposedly ahead of Obama in August. He was a terribly boring candidate in my mind, although an incredible patriot and war-hero.

But you nailed it... the Repubs need some youthful vigor, and once McCain won the nomination, I had a really bad feeling about all of it.

[Moonshine]

Wes,

Your comments are very similar to thoughts I had this morning. On one hand we had a man who has dedicated his entire adult life to service to his country. He is emminently qualified and experienced, but he is not at all charismatic. On the other hand, we had a candidate who by any objective measure is inexperienced and unqualified, but he is a charismatic speaker. He told an audience (the country) I understand you have concerns (Iraq, economy, health care, education), I share your concerns, and I can fix them. And the public ate it up and voted for him in droves, without any regard for his ability to carry out his promises.

As usual, history repeats itself.

[dboat]

Wes,

Your comments are very similar to thoughts I had this morning. On one hand we had a man who has dedicated his entire adult life to service to his country. He is emminently qualified and experienced, but he is not at all charismatic. On the other hand, we had a candidate who by any objective measure is inexperienced and unqualified, but he is a charismatic speaker. He told an audience (the country) I understand you have concerns (Iraq, economy, health care, education), I share your concerns, and I can fix them. And the public ate it up and voted for him in droves, without any regard for his ability to carry out his promises.

As usual, history repeats itself.


Interesting Comment made to today on television..

TV became part of the election process in 1960.. Since then, one could argue that the most attractive candidate has won the White House. Except Carter and he was following Watergate..

Dana

[Ohmsby]

Selling is simple...... "people like shiny Chit" that being said I asked a Cab driver in Vegas why he was so happy Obama won

He quoted "change we need change" My retort was "which policy of Mr. Obama's is your favorite" the response "we need change" I replied "thank you"

Are you f....ng kidding me I can respect someone who votes for cause that differs from mine but holy chit this is crazy and my fear is that was the difference. The lemmings actually voted this time

PS I am adding this picture of a hot SEMA girl for no other reason than she is hot

2834

[TP Derrick D]

Carter,(Jackson), Mondale,Clinton,Clinton,Gore,Kerry,Obama

[dboat]

PS I am adding this picture of a hot SEMA girl for no other reason than she is hot
2834

Looks like a typical girl in the mall in Erie..

Dana

[Ohmsby]

Carter,(Jackson), Mondale,Clinton,Clinton,Gore,Kerry,Obama

I would assume these are the folks you have voted for in the past. First thanks for voting because so many people do not and then piss and moan about the outcome.

Second I am almost positive that if I posed the same question too you regarding why you voted the way you did or why you where happy Barrack won that you would respond with an intelligent answer.

I really get twisted at those who support either side without cause.

[Ohmsby]

Looks like a typical girl in the mall in Erie..

Dana

Why? Do they all where SYNAPSE t shirts?

[dboat]

Why? Do they all where SYNAPSE t shirts?

nope, they are all blond and have a similar figure.... but you ought to see the really good looking ones.. :eek2:

[Ohmsby]

nope, they are all blond and have a similar figure.... but you ought to see the really good looking ones.. :eek2:

I am calling BS:nono:

[dboat]

I am calling BS:nono:

Come on up here and see for yourself.. :tu:

[L8 APEX]

I thought it was a funny point someone made. McCain served his country longer in a POW camp than Obama has in the Senate, lol.

[Mark #2]

I support the best looking guy winning concept and refer to my previous reference to Back to the Future on "Why an actor is President"

The SO even said and I quote "but McCain is just so difficult to look at"

I see this in the business world too, younger, tall, thin, good looking people are often the VPs, independent of the country, USA, China, Japan, India, etc.

Look at how many former tall good looking male athletes get elected in Politics.
It is the perception of strength and confidence.

Hopefully the rest of the world will perceive Obama as having strength and confidence and not challenge the USA.

It appears to me that the glass ceiling is on women, again independent of the country, USA, China, Japan, India, etc.

Clinton and Palin the most recent.

Obama is our president and I wish him and all of us well, but I do fear for him, there are still too many nut jobs out there. Even Reagan had a nut job go after him.

Let's hope the USA economy can recover, I don't know how it can with the decline in manufacturing.

[L8 APEX]

I just hope he doesn't bring Chicago style corruption into the white house.:icon_rolleyes: He already appointed a shifty eyed guy to chief of staff... The stock market isn't very sure of him either.

[TP Derrick D]

I would assume these are the folks you have voted for in the past. First thanks for voting because so many people do not and then piss and moan about the outcome.

Second I am almost positive that if I posed the same question too you regarding why you voted the way you did or why you where happy Barrack won that you would respond with an intelligent answer.

I really get twisted at those who support either side without cause.

Yes, these are all they people I have voted for in the past. I did not join in the stuff posted because all the stuff posted was for McCain...Republicans...Palin...people vote the way they do and I am in a losing position on here no matter what. I been in several heated discussions on here with people that in no way do they know what they are talking about don't and could NEVER understand as long as they live. Put it like this, just because I like Asian food don't mean I'm an expert about Asian culture and why Asian people do what they do. I can give intelligent answers but those reading already got their mind made up also. I just laugh at some of the stuff I see because if the situation was reversed I'm sure the things being posted would be reversed. TOLERANCE is lacking on here at times and birds of a feather.....
I can go farther with the Red/Blue map breakdown,this issue ,that issue and why Rep. don't get a lot of minorities vote, but I'm sure with all the wisdom on here everyone knows so let's just leave it be.

[Ohmsby]

I vote both sides of the aisle but find that my thoughts align themselves with the republican party more times than not.

Derrick would you say you voted for Barrack because he is a democrat or because of his policies?

[98Cobra]

To me, Obama's big message was really simple: "I know things suck now, and I am not Bush, so give me a shot."

McCain lost my vote with Palin. (I voted for Barr.) I have nothing but respect for McCain, but I am sure the number of people driven away by his choice of Palin is larger than the number he gained with her. If she is truly the future of the Republican party, the message they are sending me is they don't want my vote.

[dboat]

McCain lost my vote with Palin. (I voted for Barr.) I have nothing but respect for McCain, but I am sure the number of people driven away by his choice of Palin is larger than the number he gained with her. If she is truly the future of the Republican party, the message they are sending me is they don't want my vote.

why?:confused:

[BC Lightning]

why?:confused:

Palin is an idiot!!!

[Moonshine]

I been in several heated discussions on here with people that in no way do they know what they are talking about don't and could NEVER understand as long as they live.
I can go farther with the Red/Blue map breakdown,this issue ,that issue and why Rep. don't get a lot of minorities vote, but I'm sure with all the wisdom on here everyone knows so let's just leave it be.

Derrick,

For the record I disagree with your policital position less than I disagree with your condescension. Your suggestion that the other people on this board are incapable of understanding and respecting a differing, but well stated, argument is unwarranted and insulting.

[dboat]

Palin is an idiot!!!


unsubstantiated..

[WA 2 FST]

unsubstantiated..

Dana, I think we just "don't know." As little as I feel myself (and I have been listening) and others know who Obama is at his core, I know Palin even less.

Lots of folks said that about GWB, too, and he was governor of a large, prosperous state. Alaska may be prosperous, but I think its literally off the political landscape in my mind.

It's going to be interesting in the next 2-4 years for the Repub party. They can't keep running out the "old guard." As much as I truly do respect McCain for his valiant service to our country (and I think the Dems do too), he was too centrist for me...at least his voting record shows that, as well as the platforms he stood on when trying to gain the Repub nomination for the last 12+ years. The Repubs need someone to excite the right-wing fundamentalists who are capitalists at their very core.

Once taxes are raised, and a middle class family making $60-75k is giving more to fund health care for illegal immigrants, education for crack babies, and welfare to those to lazy to flip burgers and _earn_ a living, then the middle will swing back around. E.g.: Jimmy Carter. And for those who argue that Obama says he won't raise taxes on people making that amount... you need to 1) read the fine print, and 2) read the history books on past Dem Pres, and Dem-controlled Congresses.

This is egg on my face, but most here are old enough to remember the REPUBLICAN Pres who said, "read my lips... no new taxes." :icon_razz: I don't think Bush Sr was lying when he said that... he just couldn't keep his promises and/or stand up to a Dem-controlled Congress. Honestly... Obama will HAVE to raise taxes to fund what he wants to do. He can't have it both ways (no one can, this is not an attack against him), unless he has a $$ printing press in his basement.

The Republicans had their shot, and didn't do much of anything with it (although anyone blaiming the financial crisis soley on one side or the other is just ignorant), and I'm disappointed in that. They had _better_ be ready with a strong and appealing candidate when the time arrives in the future.

[dboat]

Dana, I think we just "don't know." As little as I feel myself (and I have been listening) and others know who Obama is at his core, I know Palin even less.

Lots of folks said that about GWB, too, and he was governor of a large, prosperous state. Alaska may be prosperous, but I think its literally off the political landscape in my mind.

It's going to be interesting in the next 2-4 years for the Repub party. They can't keep running out the "old guard." As much as I truly do respect McCain for his valiant service to our country (and I think the Dems do too), he was too centrist for me...at least his voting record shows that, as well as the platforms he stood on when trying to gain the Repub nomination for the last 12+ years. The Repubs need someone to excite the right-wing fundamentalists who are capitalists at their very core.

Once taxes are raised, and a middle class family making $60-75k is giving more to fund health care for illegal immigrants, education for crack babies, and welfare to those to lazy to flip burgers and _earn_ a living, then the middle will swing back around. E.g.: Jimmy Carter. And for those who argue that Obama says he won't raise taxes on people making that amount... you need to 1) read the fine print, and 2) read the history books on past Dem Pres, and Dem-controlled Congresses.

This is egg on my face, but most here are old enough to remember the REPUBLICAN Pres who said, "read my lips... no new taxes." :icon_razz: I don't think Bush Sr was lying when he said that... he just couldn't keep his promises and/or stand up to a Dem-controlled Congress. Honestly... Obama will HAVE to raise taxes to fund what he wants to do. He can't have it both ways (no one can, this is not an attack against him), unless he has a $$ printing press in his basement.

The Republicans had their shot, and didn't do much of anything with it (although anyone blaiming the financial crisis soley on one side or the other is just ignorant), and I'm disappointed in that. They had _better_ be ready with a strong and appealing candidate when the time arrives in the future.

well put.. I didnt have a problem with her because at least she had more experience to review than did the Presidential candidate for the Dems. So I was ok with her. Unless something weird happened, I didnt see much of an opportunity for her to ascend in the first term of a McCain admin. I am not really sure he would have gone for a second term.

In regard to taxes.. Obama has been pretty clear that he is going to raise taxes on all forms of energy use. While spouting his "tax relief" to 95% of the folks, he is going to raise other taxes and use that money to pay for it. They wont have more money to take home, its just a way to pay for the increased taxes elsewhere.
There is already discussion taking place where the govt is either goint to disallow 401k deductions for tax purposes or they want to take over our 401k's in their entirety.. I could see the former happening.. it would mean an additional $80 Billion dollars in tax revenue.
I do agree that the Repubs missed their opportunity to keep the Congress by spending and not doing what is their core philosophy(s). But I also think the Dems will probably overreach when the Repubs put a stop on some far left issues and taxes.. Then we will see the strongarm of the Dems come out.. the pendulum will then swing the other way..
In my mind the most telling vote wasnt Obama, but was the voting down the marriage rights for gays in California. That still tells me that this country is center right in its philosophy.. there is still hope..

Dana

[98Cobra]

Here we go:

First - a link that has some nice juicy background info from both camps: http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581

Then let's cut to a Fox News video (notable since FN is the worst of the major networks in that their bias isnt even debatable):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc

And this is before we even broach the fact that she has less experience than Obama. At 82, while I dont think it will happen, it is possible that McCain could die in office and then THAT'S the person we would be left with? The first thing I said when she was picked and I saw her credentials was that it disarms the ability for Republicans to go after Obama's lack of experience.

If they run her in 2012, I won't be voting for her, period.

Note: I did NOT vote for Obama either.

[dboat]

Here we go:

First - a link that has some nice juicy background info from both camps: http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581

Then let's cut to a Fox News video (notable since FN is the worst of the major networks in that their bias isnt even debatable):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc

And this is before we even broach the fact that she has less experience than Obama. At 82, while I dont think it will happen, it is possible that McCain could die in office and then THAT'S the person we would be left with? The first thing I said when she was picked and I saw her credentials was that it disarms the ability for Republicans to go after Obama's lack of experience.

If they run her in 2012, I won't be voting for her, period.

Note: I did NOT vote for Obama either.

I understand your POV, however, I would disagree with a couple of your points.. one, Fox News has been rated as the most balanced network in terms of this race.. the other networks were in the tank for Obama, some more some less but they all were in the tank.. Palin's actual experience trumps Obama's.. period. she has had to run a city and a state.. she has had to make very tough decisions. Ok, Alaska isnt New York, Texas or California but it still has its own issues to deal with.. she has been an executive.. Obama has not had to make any of those kinds of decisions, at all... but that is my POV..

Thanks
Dana

[Moonshine]

+1 on both Wes' and Dana's comments. Both very insightful. I may not always agree with others' viewpoints on this board, but as a group ya'll are some pretty sharp puppies.

[TP Derrick D]

Derrick,

For the record I disagree with your policital position less than I disagree with your condescension. Your suggestion that the other people on this board are incapable of understanding and respecting a differing, but well stated, argument is unwarranted and insulting.

It is very warranted, not trying to insult anyone, I've been insulted on here more than anyone. I don't care how YOU vote or YOUR political choices nor should YOU be trying to challenge my feelings about understanding...YOU CAN NOT walk in my shoes nor can YOU ever see the world and this country through my eyes. I am not speaking of the difference that everyone has, I'm speaking in terms of like "a man can not feel what its like to deliver a child, no matter how many books a man read, movies on TV he sees or how many times it is explained to a man, he can NEVER experience that feeling, ONLY a woman". That was just one quick example in being different & incapable of understanding or knowing the(mental,emotional as well as physical) feeling.
John(Ohmsby), see this is why I didn't post, NO TOLERANCE of anyone that don't think the way the majority that's posting think. Did you notice that no one was posting that they voted Democrat? Probably because they know what would happen. I did't come on here preaching Democrat this or that, I just posted the people I voted for in the past & that was it, all of a sudden I am being attacked & debated...why?...because I voted different....NO Tolerance.

[Silver_2000]

its not an attack - just a spirited discussion - but Im pretty sure I know how my input will be interpreted

[TP Derrick D]

I vote both sides of the aisle but find that my thoughts align themselves with the republican party more times than not.

Derrick would you say you voted for Barrack because he is a democrat or because of his policies?

Both, as far as voting ,no person will have issues & policies I agree with 100%

[Ohmsby]

D you are probably going to need to remind me where in this post I or anyone else attacked you or your point of view.

Garret posted up that he voted for Barrack and although I disagree with his thinking at least he has an opinion that he has put some thought in. Unlike the example of the Vegas cabby I used.


I simply asked you if you voted because Barrack was a Democrat ( based on your past voting history) or it was because of one or many of the policies that had been proposed by Barrack. This was in hope to better understand your position for the purpose of debate.

If you are telling me that your vote was solely based on race then you sir are the one who is lost. You would be correct I can not understand your position.

[TP Derrick D]

D you are probably going to need to remind me where in this post I or anyone else attacked you or your point of view.

Garret posted up that he voted for Barrack and although I disagree with his thinking at least he has an opinion that he has put some thought in. Unlike the example of the Vegas cabby I used.


I simply asked you if you voted because Barrack was a Democrat ( based on your past voting history) or it was because of one or many of the policies that had been proposed by Barrack. This was in hope to better understand your position for the purpose of debate.

If you are telling me that your vote was solely based on race then you sir are the one who is lost. You would be correct I can not understand your position.

The "attack" I feel was by Moonshine, I believe the 4th post from the top.
By the way Garrett posted he did NOT vote for Obama. As for race, look at all the people I voted for, all white except Jesse Jackson in 1984, also All Democrats. Now do you see Alan Keys name on the list? Think about it.
John, to me its not something that I go on & on about, along with issues like religion, abortion,race(except with the right person(s) of ANY race. Reason being these are very personal choices & very personal reasons why people vote & feel the way they do. People like to yell "I have a Constitutional right to..."
but when those same rights are called for by someone else....all of a sudden person #1 get selective forgetfulness.....you know the I have a right to...but you don't have a right to unless I believe in it also....ie, religion, abortion, life, liberty & pursiut of HAPPINESS. Sorry if I confused you, I really hope you know what point I'm TRYING to make.

(Nice weather we're having),(We need a playoff in college football),(You think Carl Edwards going to catch Jimmy Johnson?),(man,...I'm not convinced the Mavs are still a winning team).......

[99WhiteBeast]

One person president, black, white democrat or republican is not going to change d idly in 4 years. We need to limit the terms in Congress and get rid of all the fat cats up there making laws that are persuaded (pockets lined) by special interest.

[gagspa]

One person president, black, white democrat or republican is not going to change d idly in 4 years. We need to limit the terms in Congress and get rid of all the fat cats up there making laws that are persuaded (pockets lined) by special interest.
Amen to that!

[tiffo60]

To me, Obama's big message was really simple: "I know things suck now, and I am not Bush, so give me a shot."

McCain lost my vote with Palin. (I voted for Barr.) I have nothing but respect for McCain, but I am sure the number of people driven away by his choice of Palin is larger than the number he gained with her. If she is truly the future of the Republican party, the message they are sending me is they don't want my vote.


The "attack" I feel was by Moonshine, I believe the 4th post from the top.
By the way Garrett posted he did NOT vote for Obama. As for race, look at all the people I voted for, all white except Jesse Jackson in 1984, also All Democrats. Now do you see Alan Keys name on the list? Think about it.
John, to me its not something that I go on & on about, along with issues like religion, abortion,race(except with the right person(s) of ANY race. Reason being these are very personal choices & very personal reasons why people vote & feel the way they do. People like to yell "I have a Constitutional right to..."
but when those same rights are called for by someone else....all of a sudden person #1 get selective forgetfulness.....you know the I have a right to...but you don't have a right to unless I believe in it also....ie, religion, abortion, life, liberty & pursiut of HAPPINESS. Sorry if I confused you, I really hope you know what point I'm TRYING to make.

(Nice weather we're having),(We need a playoff in college football),(You think Carl Edwards going to catch Jimmy Johnson?),(man,...I'm not convinced the Mavs are still a winning team).......


looks like he voted for him too me.....

[98Cobra]

You're either with us, or against us, huh?

That's another reason McCain lost then.

[Beaudee]

Wes,

Your comments are very similar to thoughts I had this morning. On one hand we had a man who has dedicated his entire adult life to service to his country. He is emminently qualified and experienced, but he is not at all charismatic. On the other hand, we had a candidate who by any objective measure is inexperienced and unqualified, but he is a charismatic speaker. He told an audience (the country) I understand you have concerns (Iraq, economy, health care, education), I share your concerns, and I can fix them. And the public ate it up and voted for him in droves, without any regard for his ability to carry out his promises.

As usual, history repeats itself.

America/democrocy elected Obama,give him a chance.Election opinions/internet can cause deff. conflicts.Best to watch and see how the winner does

[Silver_2000]

well if you voted for obama - at least click the link above ( banner - if you dont see it just refresh this page ) and get a tshirt

http://ivoted4obamatee.com/IVoted4ObamaTee-b-o-w.jpg

[Beaudee]

well if you voted for obama - at least click the link above ( banner - if you dont see it just refresh this page ) and get a tshirt

http://ivoted4obamatee.com/IVoted4ObamaTee-b-o-w.jpg

I voted in the booth:cool:

[98Cobra]

I saw this today, and had to post it. A bit Leftist but funny.

http://www.236.com/video/2008/get_your_war_on_new_world_orde_10121.php

[tiffo60]

I saw this today, and had to post it. A bit Leftist but funny.

http://www.236.com/video/2008/get_your_war_on_new_world_orde_10121.php

:rll::rll::rll:

[L8 APEX]

What sucks is that the popular vote was 51/48 but the delegates vote was 333/147... wow...

[dboat]

What sucks is that the popular vote was 51/48 but the delegates vote was 333/147... wow...

Thats because each state is win or lose no percentages... it can be close and look really ugly...

When W was asked about the fact that Gore got more votes, his response was, "well, if it was a popular vote that would get you in, I would have spent a lot more time in Texas getting more votes out there.. "

Dana