Obama Stimulus Package

[dboat]

Without going into a whole bunch of stats, figures, lies, statistics, etc.. How many of you are FOR the new stimulus package? or AGAINST the stimulus package? as of right now it sits at about $825 BILLION..
The voting wont be reported on this website to protect your right to vote..

Dana

[L8 APEX]

I think we need to let the market level itself without any further medal ling by govt.

[BradOcean]

i think we need to let the market level itself without any further medal ling by govt.

+1

[98Cobra]

I vote FOR, and here is why.

We have promised the banks $800B for exactly nothing guaranteed in return. At least if this package is paying for new public works, like bridges, roads, and ither infrastructure that needs to be built or is badly in need of maintenance, that money is coming back to everyone's pockets.

I guess really, though, the devil is truly in the details. Once we actually see HOW the money will be spent is when we can truly make a judgment whether this is truly going to be good or not. I haven't seen the level of detail yet I would like.

[dboat]

I vote FOR, and here is why.

We have promised the banks $800B for exactly nothing guaranteed in return. At least if this package is paying for new public works, like bridges, roads, and ither infrastructure that needs to be built or is badly in need of maintenance, that money is coming back to everyone's pockets.

I guess really, though, the devil is truly in the details. Once we actually see HOW the money will be spent is when we can truly make a judgment whether this is truly going to be good or not. I haven't seen the level of detail yet I would like.

as has been widely reported.. there is $300 million for contraception in it.. but you are correct, the devil is in the details... like the also reported Mob Museum for Las Vegas... and of course, the porn industry put in a bid for $25 million as well..

Dana

[Ohmsby]

I am out. Capitalism is just that let it do it's thing.

[L8 APEX]

I know Eisenhower resurrected this country with his plan after WW2. Things are not bad enough to make that work now. People are not desperate enough to go off and do manual labor just for food and shelter. Back in the 40s they were...
Building roads and parks for food is unthinkable in these times...

[ZeusSVT]

I am out. Capitalism is just that let it do it's thing.


Same here, enough said.

[Silver_2000]

I know Eisenhower resurrected this country with his plan after WW2. Things are not bad enough to make that work now. People are not desperate enough to go off and do manual labor just for food and shelter. Back in the 40s they were...
Building roads and parks for food is unthinkable in these times...

Yeah but one of the things that was really important back then was helping people understand that there really was " nothing to fear but fear itself "

The issues we are having are largely due to lack of confidence
The markets are confidence driven - there is none - something has to be done to increase confidence - spending trillions of our kids money isn't building that confidence

[toddwarren]

It does not matter what we want, King Obama wants it so it goes in.
Bush started this because he did not want major banks to fail, or AIG insurance company, then Auto companies.
Have you noticed all of the companies that have recieved major bail out money are back for more already, Bank of America, Aig,Citi.
We are in a Big mess, greed, corruption, stupidity has put our finacial system on the brink, the first 350 Billion was suppose to ease lending but I heard this morning lending is down since it was implemented.

[Shiner1]

+1 for the confidence argument. I'm not sure what the answer is though. I don't know that throwing money at the automakers or banks is the answer. Give it to the people so we can go spend it on goods and stuff. Seems to me that when we are spending, the demand is higher, jobs are created, confidence is high. I'm sure it's not that simple but somtimes my pea brain can only think so far ahead.:icon_mrgreen:

[98Cobra]

as has been widely reported.. there is $300 million for contraception in it.. but you are correct, the devil is in the details... like the also reported Mob Museum for Las Vegas... and of course, the porn industry put in a bid for $25 million as well..

Dana

Why is funding contraception a bad thing?

Are the other two simply asking for money, or have they been told they will get it?

[Silver_2000]

Why is funding contraception a bad thing?

Are the other two simply asking for money, or have they been told they will get it?

its not a bad thing

It just has no bearing on the recovery

Its a sample of the huge increase in social programs we will see


From Kenny Marchant

E-Newsletter: Weeks of January 16 & 23, 2009Pelosi “Stimulus” Has More Pork Than a BBQ at a Hog Calling Contest:
The bill being proposed by Pelosi is not stimulus. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projected that only 7% of the infrastructure spending would be spent by September of 2009 and only 1/3 of spending would happen in the next two years. Under the guise of only approving “shovel-ready” projects, Pelosi has curiously back-loaded the so-called stimulus with special interest projects, pork-barrel spending, and earmarks stretching until 2019. With all economic experts agreeing that we will be out of a recession late in 2010, why would 2/3 of the “stimulus” be earmarked for 2012-2019? This is a trojan horse for wasteful government spending when we could give the American people wide-ranging, bold, and fast-acting tax relief so they can spend their own money the way they best see fit for their families. For those addicted to spreading pork around their district, inserting hundreds of billions in earmarks into this “urgent” stimulus bill is just the vehicle they needed. Furthermore, even if this bill was front-loaded, there is no needs-based assessment or shovel-ready test for these projects.

[dboat]

I especially want the $250 million for new turf at the National Mall.. :mad:

Hey, have a fund raiser for that one why dont you? arggghhh

The Repubs have the best idea.. repeal the earnings tax (i.e. Soc Sec) for six months to a year.. that way the employer and the employee get a break.. and it impacts anyone and everyone that actually works.. no welfare in this proposition.. also, with the recession expected to end within a few months, doing nothing doesnt sound too bad either..

Dana

[ZeusSVT]

E-Newsletter: Weeks of January 16 & 23, 2009Pelosi “Stimulus” Has More Pork Than a BBQ at a Hog Calling Contest:

:rll:


I doubt it is gonna end in a few weeks, this thing is far from over. If they do pour more money in at this time, it needs to be focused on better things than what they are reporting on the news now. :tex

[tiffo60]

I figure this crisis is going to be around for a few more years. There isn't any one man that can fix this problem(human anyways)

[TXLIGHTNING]

I figure this crisis is going to be around for a few more years. There isn't any one man that can fix this problem(human anyways) Who's to say B.O. is human, I personally think he may be an alien from another planet :icon_mrgreen: Put your tin foil hats on :tex

[Mark #2]

The issues we are having are largely due to lack of confidence

It is not lack of confidence, it is lack of jobs.
50K more jobs lost just today, and there will be more tomorrow.
The stimulus package must find a way to provide jobs.

The toilet has been flushed and we are spiraling down the bowl. The valve needs to be closed with a stimulus package or we will continue to spiral down until the tank is empty.

[98Cobra]

Before TI reported their cuts, the number for today was actually 68K jobs. :(

[Silver_2000]

It is not lack of confidence, it is lack of jobs.
50K more jobs lost just today, and there will be more tomorrow.
The stimulus package must find a way to provide jobs.

The toilet has been flushed and we are spiraling down the bowl. The valve needs to be closed with a stimulus package or we will continue to spiral down until the tank is empty.

the stock market is based on confidence of the company's and other markets performance

the loan market is based on confidence - confidence in the borrowers ability to pay and the market

the media and the president are shooting the confidence in the foot - which is breaking the loan cycle which is how companies pay employees

its a bad cycle

thats why the quote from the last depression was so important - to get people believing that the only thing to fear is fear itself - we can drag ourselves out of this if we believe it - that belief is based on certain things BUT its still confidence

[Mark #2]

the stock market is based on confidence of the company's and other markets performance

the loan market is based on confidence - confidence in the borrowers ability to pay and the market

the media and the president are shooting the confidence in the foot - which is breaking the loan cycle which is how companies pay employees

its a bad cycle

thats why the quote from the last depression was so important - to get people believing that the only thing to fear is fear itself - we can drag ourselves out of this if we believe it - that belief is based on certain things BUT its still confidence

My confidence depends on my job.

There was a good program on the history channel yesterday unfortunately it isn't scheduled for re-air.

This one-hour special looks at the current economic meltdown in the US and compares and contrasts it with what led up to the Great Depression, the 1929 Crash, its immediate aftermath and what helped to bring us out of the Depression. Threading first person accounts with expert interviews, the special lets viewers understand how much history is repeating itself and what does history tell us about our future?

The thing that brought us out was jobs...not confidence.

[dboat]

It is not lack of confidence, it is lack of jobs.
50K more jobs lost just today, and there will be more tomorrow.
The stimulus package must find a way to provide jobs.

The toilet has been flushed and we are spiraling down the bowl. The valve needs to be closed with a stimulus package or we will continue to spiral down until the tank is empty.

Mark, 70% of our economy is consumer driven.. when gas prices went up, disposable income went to gas and out of the country.. it also pushed those that were getting by marginally to miss house payments and other payments on credit.. hence the beginning of the end.. however, if you remember what happened after 9/11, the administration told folks its ok, go out and spend and dont horde your money, the economy picked up again and we had many quarters of good economic growth..
Now we have a bunch of Dems that want to tell us the sky is falling and it makes those with money not spend it.. so there is contraction in the economy and it wont end until we start spending again. However, the current stimulus package doesnt do that.. it has very little current spending built into it.. that is why a tax break for all would be the best thing to do.. also, the markets dont like uncertainty and the current administration hasnt said what its tax policy will be..
So, if we all knew what the tax policies are going to be AND we had consumer confidence going again, then things would start to improve again. Lastly, the govt should just buy the "toxic" assets (homes and their loans) and then sell them to the highest bidder rather than throwing money at these financial institutions.. it would work out better that way..

IMHO

Dana

[dboat]

The thing that brought us out was jobs...not confidence.


ok, but it also a well known fact now that the same type of stimulus that
FDR tried to apply, which is what the Dems are doing now, also lengthened the Depression by several years.. it was the war that got us out of the Depression.. and we already have two of those now..

Dana

[Mark #2]

ok, but it also a well known fact now that the same type of stimulus that
FDR tried to apply, which is what the Dems are doing now, also lengthened the Depression by several years.. it was the war that got us out of the Depression.. and we already have two of those now..

Dana

But these wars are not creating jobs, they are just using old inventory and technology.

[dboat]

But these wars are not creating jobs, they are just using old inventory and technology.

We agree.. that is why they are not stimulating the economy.. we are not using the war to expand and create more jobs through the private sector..

Dana

[Mark #2]

It is all about jobs, and now 76k lost jobs today.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bb8ec7c0-ebb7-11dd-8838-0000779fd2ac.html?referrer_id=yahoofinance&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&nclick_check=1

Raymond Torres, head of the International Labour Organisation’s research institute, said employers were shedding workers far more quickly in this recession than in the early 1990s.

“We have a vicious circle of depression, where job losses lead to falling consumption, which lowers industrial confidence, which leads to less investment, which results in more job losses, and so on,” he said.

[Ohmsby]

obviously a silver bullet is not apparent. I like the "Fair Tax" it has flaws but certainly provides some of the building blocks to move forward.

I have been approached several times in my business life with ideas that simply do not pencil. Our current economy is reeling from these type's of business's failing. Both large and small scale.

Our current tax code allows to much power to reside in D.C. . Business's make decision based on tax implications rather business outcomes.

I have studied this issue to ad nauseam and capitalism is just that let it do it's thing

[Beaudee]

Stimulate what??????????:rll::rll::rll: What caused this crap????150.00$$ barrell of fuel.Time for Technology,mans @ his best in the worst.:burnout:

[ZeusSVT]

Stimulate what??????????:rll::rll::rll: What caused this crap????150.00$$ barrell of fuel.Time for Technology,mans @ his best in the worst.:burnout:


Huh??? :confused:

[toddwarren]

Beaudee step away from the Jack Daniels bottle! :D

Look at the new stimulus bill, full of pork and spending items

that will not help create jobs, or stimulate the economy.

[PUMP]

I voted AGAINST because it probably won't do much but add to inflation and our grandkids misery.

My reasoning is;
History tells us that we have never bought our way out of a recession. FDR's administration tried it and it took ten years and a world war to end that depression.

Our economic system is based upon trust and confidence. How many people actully see or touch the money that they get paid? It floats around from bank to bank electronically.

The current problems have their roots in a lack of confidence in the capitalist market system. This lack in confidence was caused by the greed and missmanagment (both private and governmental) of the market movers and shakers.

The money in the Stimulus Package is not going to the things and areas that will improve confidence in the system. Like a lot of the money spent in Iraq, it will simply vanish with the taxpayers holding the bag.

[Ohmsby]

I agree with you sir

[Silver_2000]

i voted against because it probably won't do much but add to inflation and our grandkids misery.

My reasoning is;
history tells us that we have never bought our way out of a recession. Fdr's administration tried it and it took ten years and a world war to end that depression.

Our economic system is based upon trust and confidence. How many people actully see or touch the money that they get paid? It floats around from bank to bank electronically.

The current problems have their roots in a lack of confidence in the capitalist market system. This lack in confidence was caused by the greed and missmanagment (both private and governmental) of the market movers and shakers.

The money in the stimulus package is not going to the things and areas that will improve confidence in the system. Like a lot of the money spent in iraq, it will simply vanish with the taxpayers holding the bag.

+100

[L8 APEX]

Thanks Bob,

I hope you live long enough to see the USA on top again:rolleyes:. It may take a while...:tex

[Beaudee]

Beaudee step away from the Jack Daniels bottle! :D

Look at the new stimulus bill, full of pork and spending items

that will not help create jobs, or stimulate the economy.

My point exactly.I dont drink Jack:vomit: I drink Svedka! http://www.svedka.com/home.html As far as the economy and how to stim. it.Im lost for words.

[PUMP]

Thanks Bob,

I hope you live long enough to see the USA on top again:rolleyes:. It may take a while...:tex
I'll vote for that.:tu:

[my2002lightning]

PUMP/Palin 2012.:burnout:

[Beaudee]

Its Bitter Sweet BUarHBlywl8 Yaaaahhh some L. driven tunes.:icon_mrgreen:

[Beaudee]

Some reason this one wont Y-Tube.OOOHHHWeLLL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y-rfBGtAck&feature=PlayList&p=94AE66BD5BA9AE73&playnext=1&index=9

[Beaudee]

Nice!!!!!!!!1

[Silver_2000]

Some reason this one wont Y-Tube.OOOHHHWeLLL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y-rfBGtAck&feature=PlayList&p=94AE66BD5BA9AE73&playnext=1&index=9


7Y-rfBGtAck

[Moonshine]

Well said, Bob! :tu: