Truck died...

[COPB8]

Started up the truck yesterday and it has a rough idle. I decided to take it for a cruise and the exhaust was popping under light acceleration (no smoke). I hadn't drove the truck in a week or so. Everything seemed to clear up and the truck was running great the rest of the day. On my way home that evening I noticed a loss of power and my a/f gauge was reading 11-12 at light to no throttle. Give it any gas and it would shoot to 18+. It ran fine on the highway and part way through town before this happened. I babied it on home and now it won't start. It cranks and I show fuel pressure on my gauge. I hear the fuel pumps and even tried starting it on my 10 gallon fuel cell. I checked for vacuum leaks and didn't notice anything but I'm not quite sure what to look for anyways. Is there anything else I should check before pulling the supercharger and checking the plugs? Truck has built block and whipple 2.3. Please help!

[Silver_2000]

"exhaust popping" is some times a launched plug - But that shouldnt keep it from starting

cant hurt to remove the battery and reset the PCM

[COPB8]

I will check the battery this morning.

Yesterday the truck cleared up and ran great about 20 seconds after leaving my driveway. I thought maybe since I haven't driven it in a while it could have just been some condensation in the exhaust or left over fuel. the truck seems to run rich at wot throttle too. I typically see 10.8 - 11.0. I wasn't driving it hard though, just some cruising and it happened. I replaced the fuel filter a few weeks ago. The theft light flashes. It goes 1 flash then like 6 flashes but that might be normal...haha The gauge shows mileage so I don't think it would be a PATS issue. Any fuses I should check in particular? Also it's not throwing any codes.

[L8 APEX]

Do you have fancy coil packs? If so go back to stock coil packs.

[Silver_2000]

http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=249254

http://www.f150online.com/forums/chips-tuners-programming/420190-pats-theft-system.html

[COPB8]

The coil packs read 3W7E-12A366-AA. I think they are a stock coil pack? I have the battery disconnected and will wait about an hour to reconnect. Thanks for the links on the PATS system. The theft light is flashing. It flashes about once per second right now without the key in or out and everything unlocked. I don't know what I did last night that changed the blink pattern. I tried to fire the truck up and it cranked and started for about 1 second then died again. I guess that means it's getting spark correct?

[COPB8]

OK making some progress! Connected the battery and the theft light was still flashing about once per second though. Turn the key to the on position and it went off. I started the truck and with a little bit of gas got it to run. It surged real bad at first and then kind of a steady idle. I noticed that my boost gauge was bouncing between 0 and 5 in. but its supposed to set at 10 in idle. Could it be a vacuum leak that I'm not finding? I tried to listen for one but my cai was sucking air too loud.

[Mark #2]

Does it have stock cams?
If so you should have about 20 inches of vacuum not 0 to 5

[COPB8]

Stage 2 cams. I was seeing around 10-12 in vacuum at idle and more on decel but it's just bouncing between 0-5 now. The truck still isn't throwing any codes. Maybe a bad plug, coil, or what about an 02 sensor. There has been C16 run through it several times. I would like to rule out cheap and easy fixes first before I pull the whipple and check plugs and coils. I think that would be a serious undertaking for me...:(

[Mark #2]

Stage 2 cams. I was seeing around 10-12 in vacuum at idle and more on decel but it's just bouncing between 0-5 now. The truck still isn't throwing any codes. Maybe a bad plug, coil, or what about an 02 sensor. There has been C16 run through it several times. I would like to rule out cheap and easy fixes first before I pull the whipple and check plugs and coils. I think that would be a serious undertaking for me...:(
I would pull the plugs first.

[mikelemoine]

If you have a dead COP then the unburnt fuel would dump into the exhaust and screw with your AF reading, plus cause the misfire. I had a COP go intermittent, it would run fine most of the time then miss for a while then come back to normal. I had to wait for it to get consistent enough to throw a code so the dealer could find the problem.

Not sure how you store your truck or how much you drive it, but other things to check would be stale gas (damn ethanol:flaming:) or maybe a critter chewed a wire somewhere.

Finally, do you still have the cats? Mine clogged up (both at separate times) and caused a rough idle, lower vacuum and major hesitation on accelleration. Because one side clogged at a time, it felt as if it was not firing some cylinders since the other half had normal power. Mine disintegrated and cleared themselves (I'm sure the mufflers are full of crap). My cats were cheap aftermarket units and rattled badly before failing, some may clog without rattling. If you suspect that you could probably have an exhaust shop hook a pressure gauge to the O2 bung and see if you have high backpressure.

Just tossing some suggestions out there, hope it helps you find the solution.

[COPB8]

I have hi flow cats. I don't think they would be clogged since it was running great before this last time I drove it. At wot I would get a 10.8 a/f reading. Is that maybe too rich and fouled a plug? I did notice it would smell like unburnt fuel sometimes from the exhaust except I have never seen any smoke. There was a slight tick once but it was cleared up after I found an exhaust leak. I should just pull the plugs. Does anyone know of a writeup with pictures on pulling the whipple and or swapping plugs and coils?:o haha Maybe I should just tow it to the dealership before I break it....more.

[99WhiteBeast]

Your theft light flashing and then it cranking but not starting sounds like a similar issue I had a year ago with a bad ground. These trucks cause very eradicate behavior when not properly grounded.

[99WhiteBeast]

My truck mimicked a PATS issues or bad PCM. I had several people look at and said the same thing.

A ground screw on the firewall was the culprit.

[In2deep]

The good ol ground..

[COPB8]

I checked over everything again and still can't find any wires or vacuum lines that appear to be the culprit. I decided I'm going to pull the plugs myself. Can anyone give me some advice on getting the job done. It looks like the whipple comes off with the 4 bolts up front. I can remove the CAI and whipple and it looks like that will give me acces to the coils/plugs. Once I get the whipple off do I have to remove the fuel rails? What tools should I use to get the plugs out. I figure while the whipples off I can check the vacuum hoses better and also clean the IAC. I will post pictures of the plugs once I get those out. Should I go ahead and buy new coil packs or just wait and look at the plugs first? Thanks guys!

[TXLIGHTNING]

Here is a good guide. There is no need to remove the SC. http://www.svtlightnings.com/svt/how-to/sparkplugs/plugs.htm

[COPB8]

Thanks for the link!

Picked up a set of plugs today. I will try and get the rest of the tools I need tonight and maybe wrench on it a little as well. I believe my old plugs are gapped to .032, does this sound about right? I'm making 16-17 #'s of boost on my street setup with 12* of timing.

[TXLIGHTNING]

Thanks for the link!

Picked up a set of plugs today. I will try and get the rest of the tools I need tonight and maybe wrench on it a little as well. I believe my old plugs are gapped to .032, does this sound about right? I'm making 16-17 #'s of boost on my street setup with 12* of timing. 32-34 is good. Some guys just put them in right out of the box. Make sure to use NGK TR-6 plugs :tu:

[Mark #2]

Make sure to use NGK TR-6 plugs :tu:Or TR6ix.

[Silver_2000]

Here is a good guide. There is no need to remove the SC. http://www.svtlightnings.com/svt/how-to/sparkplugs/plugs.htm

Thanks for posting the link

Just in case any of the new guys don't know svtlightnings.com is another of my sites. It was the first real website I did a long time ago. Haven't updated it. In a long time.

If you see anthing on it that's broke let me know

[COPB8]

Well I have three plugs out. They are from the passenger side starting from the front of the truck. I'm still havin' a talk with the forth plug. I don't think I have intimidated it enough b/c it ain't coming out yet...:hammer:
Am I way too rich possibly? Oil? There's no shine to it just black. I can't wait to see the rest if I can get it done. I also checked the four cops on the passenger side and all ohm out between 5.44 and 5.53 so I think at least they are good.

What do y'all think? Could these plugs be the reason the truck won't run?

[Mark #2]

Well I have three plugs out. They are from the passenger side starting from the front of the truck. I'm still havin' a talk with the forth plug. I don't think I have intimidated it enough b/c it ain't coming out yet...:hammer:
Am I way too rich possibly? Oil? There's no shine to it just black. I can't wait to see the rest if I can get it done. I also checked the four cops on the passenger side and all ohm out between 5.44 and 5.53 so I think at least they are good.

What do y'all think? Could these plugs be the reason the truck won't run?
Yes with that much carbon, they are basically shorted out. Don't like the one plug that seems to have some of it missing, and appears to be the leanest one too. If it does have something missing it could be under a valve seat and that could lower the vacuum level.

[COPB8]

I finally got the 4th passenger plug out. It was just as black however it is a little wet around the threads? I will try to get the whipple off tomorrow but it may be too much for me to handle. I imagine the drivers side plugs are just as bad. I know new plugs will probably just mask the problem so what do y'all think could be causing them to foul like that? Maybe a bad fpr, stuck injector, fuel or the tune? It hasn't been smoking at startup or wot that I have noticed.

Thanks for all the help y'all are giving me!:beer:

[Mark #2]

I finally got the 4th passenger plug out. It was just as black however it is a little wet around the threads? I will try to get the whipple off tomorrow but it may be too much for me to handle. I imagine the drivers side plugs are just as bad. I know new plugs will probably just mask the problem so what do y'all think could be causing them to foul like that? Maybe a bad fpr, stuck injector, fuel or the tune? It hasn't been smoking at startup or wot that I have noticed.

Thanks for all the help y'all are giving me!:beer:


The plugs look dry to me, so I would say tune.

[Silver_2000]

mark is the man when it comes to interpreting plugs

Ive never seen plugs that black ..
In agreement with mark - you need to take CLOSE look at the tune

For it to be that black AND missing pieces is an interesting combination of issues

[COPB8]

I finally got the whipple pulled and the last of the plugs out! :D The rest are just as black. I checked the cops and they all ohm at about 5.30, is that acceptable? I also cleaned the IAC. Is there anything else I should check or replace since the whipple is already off? I checked the gap on the old plugs and they were at about .035-.036, seem a little wide, what should I gap the new plugs to? I run about 16 psi on the street and 21-22 psi on my race tune. There was some oil in the intake elbow for the whipple is that normal? Sorry for all the questions...

I looked at the old plugs again and I think it's just the angle or lighting in the photo that makes it look like something is missing. A couple plugs have a little less buildup on the ceramic tips as well. Hopefully it's not something missing!

[COPB8]

Well I finally got everything back together and the truck is still doing the same thing. It does turnover and start a little easier but it just surges badly for a few seconds and eventually dies. My fuel pressure gauge reads about 20-25 when it primes and jumps to 40 at startup. I checked all the vacuum lines under the hood when the whipple was off. I'm now lost...:( Any other ideas?

[L8 APEX]

The tune may have too much fuel in it. Of course burning that rich has probably coated your forward 02 sensors with an equal amount of crud. Depending on the history of this setup you may need to look at the fuel part of the tune. Most trucks run 35psi at idle, cruise and 52-55psi wide open. Some folks bypass the resistor and get 40 psi all the time etc... Pat at PSI motorsports in Houston has tuned a lot of Whipples.

Your plugs should be a light to medium brown. 34-36 gap is fine to 18psi. 18-20 I would go down to 32-34 then with Nitrous will go 26-28 at high boost and NOS.

http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/spark_plugs_catalog.html

NGK has a more professional site.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqread.asp

[COPB8]

Thank you Terry, I will replace the 02 sensors and see what happens. I'm feeling pretty discouraged that it's going to be something more serious now. I will get the tune checked out hopefully soon. It would be nice for it to fire up and idle.


I looked under the truck and noticed a nice little hole in the exhaust right before the muffler. I think when I cranked it over the left over fuel in the exhaust busted it. I was wondering what that pop was. I will check the rest of it out when I jack it up. Do I need to replace all the 02 sensors or just the fronts?

[L8 APEX]

The fronts are used for fuel trimming, the rears are turned off in aftermarket tunes. Don't drive around too long on the new O2's or they will get fouled by all the fuel. Did your truck run like a top for years before this issue?

[COPB8]

I bought this truck in July, it was already built. Truck had about 10,000 miles on the build. I have put about 5,000 miles on it b/c it was a daily driver for a month or so while I bought a new car. I changed the fuel filter after I drove it back to Oklahoma and haven't had any issues until now. They said the tune would be good if I ran the 6lb lower. I did for a while then switched back to the 8lb lower and have been running 101 octane. Never heard any detonation with either setup and air/fuel at wot was 10.8-10.9.

The truck has been ran as it was setup for drag racing and been raced most it's life by the previous owner. It's been pushed to 10.5 second passes without the nos, but I was buying it to drive it hard myself.

[TXLIGHTNING]

Pat at PSI motorsports in Houston has tuned a lot of Whipples. He did a hell of a job on my new built motor and KB setup. You cant go wrong with Pat @ PSI. Only downside was he had my truck for over 6 months LOL!

[COPB8]

He did a hell of a job on my new built motor and KB setup. You cant go wrong with Pat @ PSI. Only downside was he had my truck for over 6 months LOL!


I'm afraid of sending my truck to PSI....


My wife would kill me when it came back rebuilt with a turbo setup.:hammer:

[TXLIGHTNING]

I'm afraid of sending my truck to PSI....


My wife would kill me when it came back rebuilt with a turbo setup.:hammer: HAHA! Tell me about it bro! Pat actually tried to talk me into going turbo :icon_eek: If I do anything else to my truck I will lower it some. It runs strong and I am very happy with it now, so no more go fast goodies for me lol.

[L8 APEX]

The race fuel may have killed the 02's and the computer defaulted full rich. Which you didn't notice until the plugs fouled out. 10's is too rich A/F. It needs to be 11.2-11.5. JDM claims he runs everything at 12.0 now days...

There may be a mechanical issue but the whole engine is soaked in carbon and fuel. It needs some logging and data, fuel pressure, spark, short term o2 trims with the battery reset etc...

[Mark #2]

The race fuel may have killed the 02's and the computer defaulted full rich. Which you didn't notice until the plugs fouled out. 10's is too rich A/F. It needs to be 11.2-11.5. JDM claims he runs everything at 12.0 now days...

There may be a mechanical issue but the whole engine is soaked in carbon and fuel. It needs some logging and data, fuel pressure, spark, short term o2 trims with the battery reset etc...

I agree, and will offer up some very basic methods.
The vacuum level needs to be understood.
Vacuum level is very good tool for tuning and diagnosing issues...there is ~100 years of data on vacuum levels and issues.
I would also recommend a compression or leak down test.

[COPB8]

I will try to get the 02's tomorrow before I leave for a couple days. Today was my birthday and I didn't get any time to work on the truck. Should I have it towed to ford for a compression test first or replace the sensors, reset the computer, load my tune and try to start it? If it starts I won't be driving it without getting some datalogging, tuning done first. I have no idea how to do any datalogging.

Terry do you still sale SCT software? I would like to get my hands on that new touch screen SCT tuner.

Pulling the whipple and changing plugs myself was pretty cool. I have learned more about my truck in a few days then I ever thought I would.

[Mark #2]

I will try to get the 02's tomorrow before I leave for a couple days. Today was my birthday and I didn't get any time to work on the truck. Should I have it towed to ford for a compression test first or replace the sensors, reset the computer, load my tune and try to start it? If it starts I won't be driving it without getting some datalogging, tuning done first. I have no idea how to do any datalogging.

Terry do you still sale SCT software? I would like to get my hands on that new touch screen SCT tuner.

Pulling the whipple and changing plugs myself was pretty cool. I have learned more about my truck in a few days then I ever thought I would.

Do the compression check yourself, should of/could of when you were changing the plugs.
20/20 vision on that one, sorry.
No harm in changing the sensors, etc. and trying it.

[TXLIGHTNING]

Sounds like to me you need to find a good tuner in your area. Edit: Here is a link to NLOC that has some recomended tuners in OK. http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/gen-2-lightnings/163322-reputable-tuner-ok.html