Do you have a safe room?

[Mark #2]

Do you have a safe room or storm shelter?

I am thinking about one of these.
http://www.theperfectstormshelters.com/

What do you think?

[mustgofaster]

I've been thinking more & more about getting one. I don't have the $$$ for one right now, but my wife (the boss) in particular wants one, so it may be going into the budget.
I've looked at those, and I've also thought about re-building a closet into a safe room.

[dboat]

I think its a great idea.. I dont have room for one unfortunately, however, in our retirement house, we plan on having one, or creating a mini basement for such a space. I like the idea of getting one and building it, however, I wonder how well I would do in such a space? seems a bit small for a guy like me, and I might want one that would allow me to stand up. So, part of me wants one like in the link, cost effective and you only need it every once in a while when a big storm rolls in. Or would you want one to get into in case of a home invasion? Would you want one that you could stay in for more than a few hours say for a day or two? Honestly, I havent done enough research on this topic to speak to it with any kind of knowledge.
Mark, what are your thoughts on inside height and being able to stay in it for a longer period of time? for example, if a tornado destroyed a portion of your home, would you want a room big enough to stay in for an extended period of time?

Dana

[tucamote]

Them prices are crazy for a metal box you can build one just like it for less than half of what they are asking.

[Mark #2]

Them prices are crazy for a metal box you can build one just like it for less than half of what they are asking.
I looked at building myself, and the materials were ~$3K.

[Mark #2]

Mark, what are your thoughts on inside height and being able to stay in it for a longer period of time? for example, if a tornado destroyed a portion of your home, would you want a room big enough to stay in for an extended period of time?Dana

For me, the plan is to stay in a tornado shelter for the minimum amount of time, survival only, so I like the low height from a wind load standpoint. Also, like the workbench and secure storage uses.
If everything else is destroyed there is no point in living in a metal box.

[dboat]

For me, the plan is to stay in a tornado shelter for the minimum amount of time, survival only, so I like the low height from a wind load standpoint. Also, like the workbench and secure storage uses.
If everything else is destroyed there is no point in living in a metal box.

I understand but what if you had partial damage?

Dana

[Mark #2]

I understand but what if you had partial damage?

Dana
I would live in the part that wasn't damaged.

[gbgary]

my boss has one. he also has a natural gas powered generator that will power his house (a/c and all) if he loses electricity. it powers up automatically. pretty cool.

[Moonshine]

I saw a news story the other night that said storm shelters were $2-4k, far less than I would have expected. They also said FEMA will reimburse 75% of the purchase price. I plan to do some investigating, but haven't done so yet. The did show a brief shot of one that was mounted under the garage floor and you entered through a hatch. That looked pretty cool. Like Mark, I'd be looking for something to occupy for an hour or two, not days.

[mustgofaster]

I saw a news story the other night that said storm shelters were $2-4k, far less than I would have expected. They also said FEMA will reimburse 75% of the purchase price. I plan to do some investigating, but haven't done so yet. The did show a brief shot of one that was mounted under the garage floor and you entered through a hatch. That looked pretty cool. Like Mark, I'd be looking for something to occupy for an hour or two, not days.


If FEMA reimbursed 75% that would bring a shelter much closer to my kind of budget.
I like the idea of a hatch & dropping underground.

[Silver_2000]

If FEMA reimbursed 75% that would bring a shelter much closer to my kind of budget.
I like the idea of a hatch & dropping underground.

As the banker for FEMA - I dont agree with paying for 75% of the shelters...

As far as underground. Water and bugs would both be an issue to deal with.

Im concerned that the metal box in the first post would block wifi :hammer::hammer:
Which would increase the likleyhood that I would poke my head out before the worst was over...

[99bolt]

I'm sure you could run a hard line to the shelter. A small hole drilled in the side shouldn't compromise the integrity. :d

[Moonshine]

As the banker for FEMA - I dont agree with paying for 75% of t

Nor do I, but we can't change it, so as one of the other bankers for FEMA it'd be nice to see some return on my investment.

On a slightly related topic, one of my co-workers is part American Indian (Native American for the PC). He and every other member of his family were given a surplus Katrina FEMA travel trailer, courtesy of Uncle Sam and our tax dollars. Only two conditions; they had to go pick them up in La. or Ms., and they had to keep them for one year before they could sell them. He's fixing to sell the one he was given, and will probably clear $5k. He doesn't understand any more than I do why the government is giving those trailers to Indians.

[Mark #2]

Nor do I, but we can't change it, so as one of the other bankers for FEMA it'd be nice to see some return on my investment.

On a slightly related topic, one of my co-workers is part American Indian (Native American for the PC). He and every other member of his family were given a surplus Katrina FEMA travel trailer, courtesy of Uncle Sam and our tax dollars. Only two conditions; they had to go pick them up in La. or Ms., and they had to keep them for one year before they could sell them. He's fixing to sell the one he was given, and will probably clear $5k. He doesn't understand any more than I do why the government is giving those trailers to Indians.
http://www.toxictrailers.org/2007/06/giving-toxic-trailers-to-native.html

[Moonshine]

Yeah, I've seen some FEMA trailers at dealers, others being towed down the road with big orange "NOT SUITABLE FOR HUMAN HABITATION" stickers on them, and then of course the ones given to my co-worker and his family. Not sure how Unc Sugar is deciding which go where.

[Moonshine]

And I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Maybe we need a TALON group buy on storm shelters. After nearly two decades of thinking on it, I finally bought a portable generator. A storm shelter and a floor safe are other items on my "Yeah, I gotta' get one of those someday" list.

[dboat]

And I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Maybe we need a TALON group buy on storm shelters. After nearly two decades of thinking on it, I finally bought a portable generator. A storm shelter and a floor safe are other items on my "Yeah, I gotta' get one of those someday" list.

Mine would have to be inground because I dont know where else I would put it..

Dana

[Silver_2000]

Mine would have to be inground because I dont know where else I would put it..

Dana
You couldnt find room in your 3 car garage ?

[Sixpipes]

I'd rather die than give up garage space. :cool:

[Mark #2]

I'd rather die than give up garage space. :cool:
Me too,
I am still considering building one myself, my neighbor is a metals dealer and I'm going to see what it would cost for materials, cutting, and drilling at his cost.
I will change the size slightly to fit in my bedroom closet for easy access/safe storage.

The same neighbor has the underground in the garage one. It is really nice, I got in it, but no voluntary 6 ft under for me. If the cars parked in the garage move you wouldn't be able to get out. FYI, it cost about $7K.

[dboat]

You couldnt find room in your 3 car garage ?

uh.,..no... you have seen it.. barely enough room for the vehicles.. I would do it out by the shed but it would be too big to get by on a regular basis.. Maybe put it or convert the other downstairs closet.

Dana

[Silver_2000]

its just amusing ... huge house, 3 car garage and no room ... Um ok ...

[dboat]

its just amusing ... huge house, 3 car garage and no room ... Um ok ...

its an average sized house for the neighborhood.. not huge.. just enough space for Kim and I.. its barely a 3 car garage, if it was as big as the one in Erie, Pa, I would agree and I could find some space there..

Dana

[SILVER2000SVT]

I've been planning one for some time now. I'm trying to break the traditional thinking that you have to give up usable space, or have a separate unground structure. By building poured heavily reinforced concrete walls and ceiling you can make any room in your house a saferoom. It would be more easily built before the house is built but could be done after the fact. I'm thinking of something like a large bedroom closet, small office, or even the kitchen pantry. The only way someone would know it's a saferoom when you are done will be a really heavy steel door. Heck if you integrate a small bathroom or half bath you would have a pretty nice setup in the event of an emergency.

[dboat]

I've been planning one for some time now. I'm trying to break the traditional thinking that you have to give up usable space, or have a separate unground structure. By building poured heavily reinforced concrete walls and ceiling you can make any room in your house a saferoom. It would be more easily built before the house is built but could be done after the fact. I'm thinking of something like a large bedroom closet, small office, or even the kitchen pantry. The only way someone would know it's a saferoom when you are done will be a really heavy steel door. Heck if you integrate a small bathroom or half bath you would have a pretty nice setup in the event of an emergency.

I like your thinking.. :tu:

Dana

[Mark #2]

I've been planning one for some time now. I'm trying to break the traditional thinking that you have to give up usable space, or have a separate unground structure. By building poured heavily reinforced concrete walls and ceiling you can make any room in your house a saferoom. It would be more easily built before the house is built but could be done after the fact. I'm thinking of something like a large bedroom closet, small office, or even the kitchen pantry. The only way someone would know it's a saferoom when you are done will be a really heavy steel door. Heck if you integrate a small bathroom or half bath you would have a pretty nice setup in the event of an emergency.
FYI, I think this is the best solution for an existing house.
http://www.usstormshelters.com/safe_rooms.html
I am considering putting one in my bedroom closet.

[Moonshine]

I'm liking these -

http://www.tornadomaster.com/below-ground-steel.php

[Moonshine]

Based on what I've found so far, the 75% funding by FEMA that the news reported only applies to states, cities, and some non-profits, not individual homeowners. However, for those in Tarrant County, you can apply for 50% reimbursement on a safe room or shelter up to $3k, so you could potentially get $1500.

http://www.tarrantcounty.com/egov/cwp/view.asp?a=733&Q=476808

[Sixpipes]

I'm going to buy this and bolt it down in my driveway during tornado season. :cool:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-E-Series-Van-E-350-2001-FORD-E-350-V8-ARMORED-VAN-RUNS-GREAT-NO-RESERVE-/190537388149?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c5ce9d075

[Mark #2]

I'm going to buy this and bolt it down in my driveway during tornado season. :cool:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-E-Series-Van-E-350-2001-FORD-E-350-V8-ARMORED-VAN-RUNS-GREAT-NO-RESERVE-/190537388149?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c5ce9d075

That is really scary/funny, because I have actually thought about just chaining down the K5 in the garage.

[dboat]

Dennis's option only has 504K miles on it, so its still pretty new.. but dang are these things pricey.. the one in the garage floor has a 4" lip to it.. that would be a huge toe catcher for me.. I am now thinking spare bedroom closet.. not too keen on the passive air changes either, that little space is going to heat up pretty fast with a couple of folk in it..

Dana

[Moonshine]

There are several versions with no lip. A lip would make the garage space virtually unusable, in addition to being a serious toe catcher. Also, several have battery powered vent fans.

[Silver_2000]

great options

I like the armored van the best - Cheap and flexible ,,:hammer::rll:



and the garage ones that "fit" in the garage - would require you park your car elsewhere to use it.. Which is inconvenient since 99 times out of 100 you will use the room and not need it - BUT while you are using it your car is out in the elements getting pelted

[Mark #2]

Well since these things cost so much and the odds of being killed in a tornado are ~1 in 5 million, the SO says no safe room, fix the other things around the house and purchase lottery tickets as the odds are in the same order of magnitude.
So the newer concrete seat/concrete board/ceramic tile shower stall is our solution for now.
Had I thought about a shelter when I built this shower it would have been very easy and little cost to build it to the FEMA standards, double studs, ties, bolts, plywood, etc, even a temporary panel/door stored in the closet to put in place of the door with 3 horizontal bars into holes in the door frame.
Check out the FEMA standards, it is not too costly or difficult to build an above ground F5 wood based shelter.

[dboat]

Well since these things cost so much and the odds of being killed in a tornado are ~1 in 5 million, the SO says no safe room, fix the other things around the house and purchase lottery tickets as the odds are in the same order of magnitude.
So the newer concrete seat/concrete board/ceramic tile shower stall is our solution for now.
Had I thought about a shelter when I built this shower it would have been very easy and little cost to build it to the FEMA standards, double studs, ties, bolts, plywood, etc, even a temporary panel/door stored in the closet to put in place of the door with 3 horizontal bars into holes in the door frame.
Check out the FEMA standards, it is not too costly or difficult to build an above ground F5 wood based shelter.

I went to the FEMA website and didnt find too much.. mind sharing the links you have on this?
Dana

[99WhiteBeast]

With a family of 5 I have a real space issues to protect everybody. The link Brian had of the underground steel shelter in the garage floor may be the best bet- but I bet that is very pricey.

I just redid a shower due to a leaking pan and we added a few extra studs. With that the concrete board and tile and no windows in the bathroom its probably my best bet- but space is still an issue.

I think anything sub grade is going to be the safest.

[dboat]

I am thinking the walkin closet with no windows, tall ceiling and building it inside. I want to see the FEMA guidelines to see how I might make this work.
Dana

[Mark #2]

I went to the FEMA website and didnt find too much.. mind sharing the links you have on this?
Dana
http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/saferoom/shplans/

[gbgary]

of the two examples, linked previously, the stand-up model (bolted down to the slab with the door that opens inward) makes more sense than the hole-in-the-floor model. you could be trapped in the latter with the car or house sitting on the door.

[Mark #2]

of the two examples, linked previously, the stand-up model (bolted down to the slab with the door that opens inward) makes more sense than the hole-in-the-floor model. you could be trapped in the latter with the car or house sitting on the door.
Agree,
The neighbor has the underground in the garage one. It is really nice, I got in it, but no voluntary 6 ft under for me. If the cars parked in the garage move you wouldn't be able to get out. FYI, it cost about $7K.

[Moonshine]

of the two examples, linked previously, the stand-up model (bolted down to the slab with the door that opens inward) makes more sense than the hole-in-the-floor model. you could be trapped in the latter with the car or house sitting on the door.

If the storm was strong enough to demolish the house and/or move the car on top of the in floor model, I doubt the above ground model would survive intact and stay attached to the slab.

[gbgary]

If the storm was strong enough to demolish the house and/or move the car on top of the in floor model, I doubt the above ground model would survive intact and stay attached to the slab.

i don't know. take a look at the construction...

http://www.usstormshelters.com/sr_more.html

[Moonshine]

i don't know. take a look at the construction...

http://www.usstormshelters.com/sr_more.html

No question, it's pretty stout and WAY better than nothing, but I didn't see anything standing in Tuscaloosa. I think it might stay intact, but I don't know that it would stay attached to the slab when a car or a section of someones house hit it at 100 MPH.

[SILVER2000SVT]

I always wonder about the design guidelines. Sure they are designed to take 200MPH winds but what about the 2-3 ton chucks of debris flying at 200mph?

[Mark #2]

Okay, an analogy, think SAFER barrier they survive a Nascar car at 200 MPH. Steel wall/foam/concrete wall. How is the concrete attached to the track either rebar or bolts, depending on the track and the wall location.

That is why I like the workbench style, I question if the load was applied 8 feet in the air versus 3 feet.
I saw refrigerators still standing in Joplin. The kitchen's seemed to survive, with all the appliances, cabinets, counter tops, sinks, etc. so screwed/bolted metal things to wood appear to be better than ceramic things glued to wood(bathroom). I think a pantry near/in the kitchen maybe a better location.
Designing a new product, the kitchen island safe shelter. Maybe another patent, so I will have to disclose that I posted it here and will need your NDA;s.;)

[Moonshine]

Designing a new product, the kitchen island safe shelter. Maybe another patent, so I will have to disclose that I posted it here and will need your NDA;s.;)

Me likes. :tu: I'll be the first to volunteer to test a prototype.

[dboat]

my non engineering mind says, make a room in the walk-in closet. attach the walls to the floor with bolts or those .22 powered nails into the slab. Then the walls are cement backer board, then sheet metal, then drywall. put the studs on 12" centers and screw the backer board on first, then using new screws, screw the sheet metal on and then another set of screws, screw the drywall on.. this should put a screw about every 3 inches. Then you will still have to get a good door and install it using some very long screws into several studs for the door surround. Not going to be cheap but should be $7k either.. then in your planning, install some batter powered vent fans and such.. but I think the three layer wall will work for most of what comes our way..

Dana

[Mark #2]

my non engineering mind says, make a room in the walk-in closet. attach the walls to the floor with bolts or those .22 powered nails into the slab. Then the walls are cement backer board, then sheet metal, then drywall. put the studs on 12" centers and screw the backer board on first, then using new screws, screw the sheet metal on and then another set of screws, screw the drywall on.. this should put a screw about every 3 inches. Then you will still have to get a good door and install it using some very long screws into several studs for the door surround. Not going to be cheap but should be $7k either.. then in your planning, install some batter powered vent fans and such.. but I think the three layer wall will work for most of what comes our way..

Dana
Sorry, but you are way off, cement backer board and drywall on 12 in centers you can break with a punch, the data from college is with ceramic tiles on them.;)
See the FEMA standards, 2 layers of 3/4 inch plywood. Many millions of dollars spent on those standards and testing.

[dboat]

Sorry, but you are way off, cement backer board and drywall on 12 in centers you can break with a punch, the data from college is with ceramic tiles on them.;)
See the FEMA standards, 2 layers of 3/4 inch plywood. Many millions of dollars spent on those standards and testing.

I figured the cement backerboard would be as strong or stronger than the ply..

Dana

[SILVER2000SVT]

I figured the cement backerboard would be as strong or stronger than the ply..

Dana

In fact the opposite is true. The cement backer board is hard and brittle. Imagine it being like a piece of glass compared to plywood. Like glass it seems really hard and strong but a simple impact will bust it to pieces.

[dboat]

Thanks guys, back to the FEMA blueprints. :(

Dana

[Moonshine]

Imagine it being like a piece of glass compared to plywood. Like glass it seems really hard and strong but a simple impact will bust it to pieces.

Same idea as kicking in a hollow core versus a solid core door. A solid core door transmits all of the force to the lock and door jamb, and is often easier to kick in than a hollow core door,which flexes.

[L8 APEX]

The base housing at Whiteman AFB has a steel safe room in every unit. Probably at other tornado alley bases as well.