curious about blower pulleys [merged]

[Lil Nicky88]

With my chip in and reburned, what is the optimal size pulley I should get, while leaving everything else stock?

[L8 APEX]

I am not sure what you are asking... You tuner should have the info you need. A chip and pulley must always match each other. On a stock truck NO CHIP you can run up to a 2# pulley and be safe. For a 4# pulley you MUST have a chip programed for that application. Most chips from tuners PSP, JDM, JL, etc. have too much timing and will detonate if a pulley is added without a program adjustment. I had a chip so tuned that that when I went from a 2# to a 3# pulley it detonated. So don't throw a pulley on your truck without making sure the chip is tuned for it :tu:

[Sixpipes]

I'm not sure about the pulley thing. I have a few things done to my truck including a 2# lower and 1# upper on the stock Ford program without any problems. According to Swanson, the shift rpm should be lowered to protect the blower from overspinning, but the A/F ratio is not altered by a pulley. The MAF is supposed to compensate for the increased air flow without a chip reburn.

I think you will find that a stock Lightning program will have far less timing than any performance chip burned for a 4# or greater pulley. To me, that means a stock Ford Lightning program can handle all the boost you want to give it if that is the only modification you have.

I haven't heard of anyone actually testing their A/F ration before a pulley and then again after the installation with no chip alteration, but that would answer the question, IMO.
:cool:

[Lil Nicky88]

that was kind of what I was asking. Saying the chip will be tuned specifically for whatever pulley I get, what would be the best size pulley? I don't want to put 6 lb pulley on my truck, then get my chip reprogrammed just to have my sh!t detonate.

[J.D. Blackwell]

I have been seeing quite a few guys running the 4# lower and a filter kit. I believe all of them have a 2# lower for sale if you know what I mean.:burnout:

[Mark #2]

Sixpipes,
Do you think that I can run a 90maf, 4# pulley on the stock program?

Is the computer really smart enough to look at the 4 O2 sensors and adjust the fuel delivery and timing maps to compensate?

[wesman]

Originally posted by HIHOAG
Sixpipes,
Do you think that I can run a 90maf, 4# pulley on the stock program?

Is the computer really smart enough to look at the 4 O2 sensors and adjust the fuel delivery and timing maps to compensate?

Seems like a lot of A/F for the stock ECU to just figure out. The theory behind the chip is that the A/F is changed for the increase in both air and fuel along with timing across the RPM range. I doubt the stock ECU will be able to handle it....of course I'm new to the L scene and am still analyzing the A/F maps :)

--wes

[Mark #2]

What belt should I order for a 4# pulley? I searched the web and they said 80670. I just bought a gates 80670 and it is too short. Any help here?

Mark2

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

I think Sixpipes is spot on about the fuel air mixture with the MAF which is calibrated for the computer. If you think about it, the MAF measures air volume which the computer uses to determine the amount of fuel to inject into the cylinders. You are not changing the displacement of the supercharger, so the ratio of air through the MAF will be independent of the rate of spin on the supercharger which produces the boost.

If you change one of the calibrated components --- such as the MAF, then the fuel/air ratio as far as the computer is concerned may be altered and as such the fuel/air mixture could be lean or rich depending on the variance in the MAF.

To increase the boost, you would necessarily have to increase the air flow through the MAF --- regardless of the RPM of the supercharger.

Altitude density of the air coupled with air flow and supercharger efficiency will determine the boost or something:d

[wesman]

Originally posted by Ivanhoe_Farms
I think Sixpipes is spot on about the fuel air mixture with the MAF which is calibrated for the computer. If you think about it, the MAF measures air volume which the computer uses to determine the amount of fuel to inject into the cylinders. You are not changing the displacement of the supercharger, so the ratio of air through the MAF will be independent of the rate of spin on the supercharger which produces the boost.

If you change one of the calibrated components --- such as the MAF, then the fuel/air ratio as far as the computer is concerned may be altered and as such the fuel/air mixture could be lean or rich depending on the variance in the MAF.

To increase the boost, you would necessarily have to increase the air flow through the MAF --- regardless of the RPM of the supercharger.

Altitude density of the air coupled with air flow and supercharger efficiency will determine the boost or something:d

Well...when the supercharger increases the boost it also increases the amount of air that it is sending to the MAF. This will in turn require an increase in fuel. I think the stock ECU is able to compensate a bit...say 2 psi...once you get up into the 4 psi area you are increasing the SC air output by 50% ...I'm not confident that the ECU can measure this accurately and in turn increase the fuel to match the increased air. I certainly wouldn't bet a 10k engine on it when I could buy a chip for a few hundred bucks to make these calculations for me :)

--wes

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Well...when the supercharger increases the boost it also increases the amount of air that it is sending to the MAF. This will in turn require an increase in fuel. I think the stock ECU is able to compensate a bit...say 2 psi...once you get up into the 4 psi area you are increasing the SC air output by 50% ...I'm not confident that the ECU can measure this accurately and in turn increase the fuel to match the increased air. I certainly wouldn't bet a 10k engine on it when I could buy a chip for a few hundred bucks to make these calculations for me

Looks like you already know what the solution is to your problem. As long as the MAF does not generate 5.0 volts, the ECU will calibrate correctly for it --- but that is probably as good of an excuse as any to buy a chip

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Originally posted by Ivanhoe_Farms


Looks like you already know what the solution is to your problem. As long as the MAF does not generate 5.0 volts, the ECU will calibrate correctly for it --- but that is probably as good of an excuse as any to buy a chip

BTW, one of my lightnings is showing 12lbs of boost on a autometer guage, and the only mod is an air filter kit --- geaux figure:burnout:

[L8 APEX]

Man I just installed one a month ago.. Either a K080680 or 85. Try the 680:tu: A 670 is for 2# pulley unless you "adjust the tensioner" as JDM calls it. I call it breaking off the stop tab:eek:

[Mark #2]

Okay,
So the wife is out of town and I'm wrenching, online, watching BBall, and having a beer or two:). The keyboard is getting kind of dirty.

Ivanhoe farms, So I should be okay with a 90 maf and 4# pulley????

I have a chip reburned but after Sixpipes performance at FFW I have a lot of respect for the stock computer.

L8Apex, I have a 08680 on order with O'Reilly's tomorrow. Hopefully it will fit.

Mark2

[Sixpipes]

Originally posted by HIHOAG
Sixpipes,
Do you think that I can run a 90maf, 4# pulley on the stock program?

Is the computer really smart enough to look at the 4 O2 sensors and adjust the fuel delivery and timing maps to compensate?

I will be running 4#s with an 80mm MAF soon so I'll let you know.

We seem to be making this harder than it actually is. The Cux-1 computer in the 99 Lightning is different than the computers found on the 01 & 02s. In the 01 computer, air flow is converted to volts through the MAF. Exceed 5 volts and the computer reverts back to the default program (read stock). See also JDM/Ennis 2001. Not so with the Cux-1.

I actually have three chips for Go_rila, none of which I am currently using. Since my Cux-1 computer is too "stupid" to figure out when too much air flow is going through the MAF, I shouldn't have a problem with a little extra boost. I am still using the 80mm MAF so the intake is restricted compared to the 01/02 trucks.

I do mean to do something about the stock shifting however. So how much trouble is the line mod valve thingy?

[Mark #2]

Sixpipes,
The Factorytech valve body is very easy if you punch a hole in the stock pan. Otherwise you're likely to get soaked with transmission fluid, which is course what I did.:) 3 hours max at our old man wrenching rate.

I have a 2000 with the CUX2, any idea if it is smarter than the CUX1?

Wrenching fool,
Mark2

[Sixpipes]

I'm not sure what the difference is in the CUX-1 and CUX-2, but they are very similar. So I need to get a new tranny to do the valve mod?

So when can I book my next appointment? :tongue:

[Mark #2]

Sixpipes,

If you can get the PSP Factorytech valve body by Friday we can do it Friday night or Saturday.

I got the 4X4 pan and filter at the Ford dealer on Central just south of LBJ at a similiar price as on line. I have the parts guy card at work and will send you his name tomorrow.

Mark

[Mark #2]

And by the way: You might be a Redneck:

If your favorite restaurant is open 24 hours a day.

[Badcarma]

So do you need a chip for ....let's say a 6# pulley? Or is the chip mostly for fine tuning and trainy tricks?::burnout:

[L8 APEX]

Yes you definately need a chip for these large pulleys. The computer has a base program fuel/timing maps with a "range" like (3-7) that it works with the O2's, MAF and other sensor inputs help it to tune within that preset range. Once you do these mods you go beyond the maximum range of the stock program and need a revised fuel/timing maps for it to run on like (5-9). Remember WOT fuel and timing MAPS are preset not set by closed loop sampling! WOT is where you will do your damage. Sound simple?

[Lil Nicky88]

so if I had a 6# pulley (that is actually what I was thinking about getting) and a chip that was programmed for it, I wouldn't have to replace anything else? I would be good to go?

[L8 APEX]

Yes, make sure the shift RPM is lowered to about 5200. Or risk lunching the blower. I have already replaced a customer's that had a 2# pulley and was shifting at 6200 RPM. That was thanks to a local Mustang tuner programing the chip like it was a Mustang motor :nono: I have pictures of it some where around here... Want to see my Eaton 166, wait where is that pic:D

Remember you need to drive a 6# motor different than others. They heat up aggresively and have a lot of heat induced power loss on consecutive runs. So that means more time between passes and don't stand on it WOT on the highway for long periods. Those are the main reasons I have stayed with 2#'s. Personally I would run a 4# and be happy and a bit safer unless you are going for a record and willing to face the music down the road. The Eaton SC is a roots type and becomes exponentialy (sp?) inefficient the faster you spin it. That's pulley talk on TALON!:D

[Lil Nicky88]

thanks. I feel like my head is going to explode with all of that useful knowledge. My question is now answered in full.

[Sixpipes]

Originally posted by HIHOAG
Sixpipes,
If you can get the PSP Factorytech valve body by Friday we can do it Friday night or Saturday.
Mark
Traveling this week and next. I'll get the stuff rounded up and then check in. :cool:

[MadMax]

MADMAX=REDNECK :D

cuz IHOP is killer.....nothing like a cheater meal...with 10 or so pancakes/eggs/grits/etc.

[Flats Man]

Hey Six, go rob a 7-11 or something and send that tranny off to Art Carr for your performance rebuild. Go_rila will thank you. See, I am pretty good at spending your money too!

[Sixpipes]

Trying to get another couple of years out of the stock unit. I'm not trying to lunch my stock stuff like some one else I know. :tongue: However, Mr. Carr will get a call when/if that happens. Actually, I'm quite happy/surprised that my transmission is still performing a like new one after 50K miles.

How much dough are we talking about?

[Flats Man]

Not that much really! A preformance rebuild, racing clutch packs etc. was around $2000 retail and the 2400 stall converter around $700 retail. If Go_rila shifted like my little truck, it would definitely take some time off your ET! It might be a Bear to launch however! Try www.artcarr.com for more info!