flowmasters suck???????

[03'svtlight]

Gaven and Ron both said that flowmasters suck on trucks but where is the dyno sheets to prove it????? Has anyone ever dyno'd a couple of flows on an L and then put on a bassani or maganflow??? I have a flow cat-back system and have to say Im happy with I it because it doesnt have that god awful sound the bassani has....The bassani sounds bad in my opinion, the maganflow is sweet.... But there is one way to prove all of this.... i would be willing to split the bill on some dyno time on my truck or anybody's truck using my cat-back system and a bassani or magnaflow.... We could all benefit in some way, because if it does suck in the torque dept., it'll be sitting on the side of the house next to the stocker cat-back.......... ;)

[ken cryder]

i have afreind that i told not to put them on his new harley. he dynoed before , and the after installation . he lost 10hp . then put the magna flow on and gain it plus 5 back not real empresive , i have had three different systems on my truck and my favorites are spintechs . you can get the quiet ones like i run up to full race . they seem to give it just enough back preassure with out being restictive .jmo


ken

[03'svtlight]

i have afreind that i told not to put them on his new harley. he dynoed before , and the after installation . he lost 10hp . then put the magna flow on and gain it plus 5 back not real empresive , i have had three different systems on my truck and my favorites are spintechs . you can get the quiet ones like i run up to full race . they seem to give it just enough back preassure with out being restictive .jmo


ken
you have 2 spintechs How do they sound???

[ken cryder]

you have 2 spintechs How do they sound???i got the queit ones nice litte rumble going down the road but at full throttle you can't hear them , just the s/c , but they have ones that are alot more agressive sounding . i didn't dyno before or after , but i built my traction bars and the spintechs , and that finnally put in the 7s from low eights on the 1/8 . so i'm satisfied with them .

ken

ps here's thier site
spintechmufflers.com/spintech/spintechindex.asp

you can see videos and sounds of their mufflers.

[03LightningRocks]

Gaven and Ron both said that flowmasters suck on trucks but where is the dyno sheets to prove it????? Has anyone ever dyno'd a couple of flows on an L and then put on a bassani or maganflow??? I have a flow cat-back system and have to say Im happy with I it because it doesnt have that god awful sound the bassani has....The bassani sounds bad in my opinion, the maganflow is sweet.... But there is one way to prove all of this.... i would be willing to split the bill on some dyno time on my truck or anybody's truck using my cat-back system and a bassani or magnaflow.... We could all benefit in some way, because if it does suck in the torque dept., it'll be sitting on the side of the house next to the stocker cat-back.......... ;)I have, but The dyno included long tubes, X pipe, high flow cats(magnaflow), and magnaflow dual mufflers. Between all the above I gained about 25 H.P. and 30 torque. The biggest issue was it widened my time in the peak power range.

I have installed Flowmaster mufflers and could actually feel the loss... no dyno, but when the loss is so bad that you can feel it, it is bad. I immediately went to a gibson and then went to Magnaflow.

Some things you just have to trust the majority of us. If the flowmaster was the best exhaust...I would, by gawd have it.

I have an 03 L and have so far dumped near 10 K in performance mods on it. Trust me when I say...money ain't the main issue for me. What is best is my issue.

I also don't like the sound of the Bassani. Flow Dynamics is what the game is all about...not just "reducing back pressure". The exhaust system must move the correct velocity of exhaust to maintain proper torque through the entire rpm range. Flomaster is SHIOT when it comes to this.

Rocks:nono:

[tliss]

You're not going to see too much of a difference horsepowerwise with any cat-back exhaust, period. All you put one of those on for is sound. I my humble opinion, the Flowmasters sound horrible on the Lightning and make it sound like less of a beast and more like a fake. They're too "hollow" sounding and don't provide the good rumble that these trucks deserve, IMO. Personally I have the Wild set up that PR put on with twin Magnaflow Bullets and love it. Great sound, and didn't have to pay Bassani prices!

Tom

[03LightningRocks]

You're not going to see too much of a difference horsepowerwise with any cat-back exhaust, period. All you put one of those on for is sound. I my humble opinion, the Flowmasters sound horrible on the Lightning and make it sound like less of a beast and more like a fake. They're too "hollow" sounding and don't provide the good rumble that these trucks deserve, IMO. Personally I have the Wild set up that PR put on with twin Magnaflow Bullets and love it. Great sound, and didn't have to pay Bassani prices!

Tom
Tom is pretty much correct on this. Exhaust is just one small part of the total performance increase equation.

For example....doing a complete exhaust upgrade from longtubes all the way to the tail pipes will show more of an increase for those that have upped the boost to 6 or 8lb than for those running a 4lb lower. To really see the max performance gain in H.P. torque, one would then look into a single blade throttle body, ported and polished heads, cold air intake...ect.

The confusion comes in when we try to take any one mod on it's own and then expect somer magic increase in performance.

After watching mods being dynoed one by one I now believe that the only really big improvement happens with the pulley/chip mod. All the rest are just small gains that build upon each other.

Take for instance the "plasma booster". Gain from that thing was being bragged as high as 10 H.P. Turns out that the only gain from this is the ability to run larger gaps on my plugs without suffering spark blow out. This in turn translates into "SMALL" gains in total H.P.(like maybe 3 or 4).

Point of all this rambling is, as you mod your truck, don't look at each mod independenly for what it will gain you. Have an idea about where you are taking your truck in the end. Then do your mods as a building block towards your ultimate goal.


Rocks:tu:

[03'svtlight]

Tom is pretty much correct on this. Exhaust is just one small part of the total performance increase equation.

For example....doing a complete exhaust upgrade from longtubes all the way to the tail pipes will show more of an increase for those that have upped the boost to 6 or 8lb than for those running a 4lb lower. To really see the max performance gain in H.P. torque, one would then look into a single blade throttle body, ported and polished heads, cold air intake...ect.

The confusion comes in when we try to take any one mod on it's own and then expect somer magic increase in performance.

After watching mods being dynoed one by one I now believe that the only really big improvement happens with the pulley/chip mod. All the rest are just small gains that build upon each other.

Take for instance the "plasma booster". Gain from that thing was being bragged as high as 10 H.P. Turns out that the only gain from this is the ability to run larger gaps on my plugs without suffering spark blow out. This in turn translates into "SMALL" gains in total H.P.(like maybe 3 or 4).

Point of all this rambling is, as you mod your truck, don't look at each mod independenly for what it will gain you. Have an idea about where you are taking your truck in the end. Then do your mods as a building block towards your ultimate goal.


Rocks:tu:
I understand all of what you guys are saying, my only thing is I just may be the only guy with a flowmaster "cat-back" (not 2 mustang flows) on his L this side of the red river because it just recently came out... Thats why I couldnt understand how Ron and Gaven could judge it based on nothing... I can understand the mustang flows not showing up in the power dept. and not sounding very good because they werent designed for this truck.... Seat of the pants feeling is better than it was and it requires a whole lot less pedal effort for the tires to break lose than before..... As far as sound goes its doesnt sound hardly any different than stock which is good for me because I didnt want a loud truck anyway.... But like I said before, i would dump it in a chevy heartbeat if I knew for a fact it costing me some horses.... :burnout:

[cpeapea]

i have factual information that says flowmaster+lighting=sucks. try running a search on f150online. there are several people who went through several sets, burning them out. people even said they sounded restrictive. (could just be opinion though) and i believe long ago that someone actually posted a loss. bassani sounds the best with long tubes, thats what i run, sounds nice and resonant. bassanis and magnaflows design are way more advanced than flowmaster anyways. flowmasters sound/run good on my 71 and my 67, but like i said they just arent for the s/c'd Lightning truck. each muffler will act differently upon every motor, depending on head design, cam, compression, blah blah blah.

[03LightningRocks]

I understand all of what you guys are saying, my only thing is I just may be the only guy with a flowmaster "cat-back" (not 2 mustang flows) on his L this side of the red river because it just recently came out... Thats why I couldnt understand how Ron and Gaven could judge it based on nothing... I can understand the mustang flows not showing up in the power dept. and not sounding very good because they werent designed for this truck.... Seat of the pants feeling is better than it was and it requires a whole lot less pedal effort for the tires to break lose than before..... As far as sound goes its doesnt sound hardly any different than stock which is good for me because I didnt want a loud truck anyway.... But like I said before, i would dump it in a chevy heartbeat if I knew for a fact it costing me some horses.... :burnout:

I will give ya some slack on this one since your a newbie and all. I may even answer more of your questions in the future. You really wouldn't say we are making recks based on nothing if ya new us.

As for me, I have tried each and every exhaust I gave recks or thumbs down on. Go ahead though and use that cowboy master exhaust and when we are at the track with my truck handing you your azz, I will try and help you out again.


My 12.11 truck tells my story...NO NOZZZZ, NO AFTER MARKET BLOWER....I must be doing something right.

Did your azz tickle from the smoke that guy blew up it about selling you some new invention that was exlusive to you. A "Cat Back Exhaust" is nothing more than a muffler welded to a piece of pipe pre-formed to allow the novice the ease of bolting it to the pipes after the cats. The exhaust that comes stock with an L is already so darned effecient, it is real tough to get a replacement that will top it. Flo-master doesn't do it.
Rocks

[03'svtlight]

I will give ya some slack on this one since your a newbie and all. I may even answer more of your questions in the future. You really wouldn't say we are making recks based on nothing if ya new us.

As for me, I have tried each and every exhaust I gave recks or thumbs down on. Go ahead though and use that cowboy master exhaust and when we are at the track with my truck handing you your azz, I will try and help you out again.


My 12.11 truck tells my story...NO NOZZZZ, NO AFTER MARKET BLOWER....I must be doing something right.


Rocks
Newbie???? I think we have the same year truck.......Basically I didnt ask for your help or do I need it ...Maybe you havent had any luck with flows but have you ever had a flow cat-back???????Like I said I could easily take it off if it was something out there "proven" to be better, and that was all I was asking how you assumed it wasnt worth it when it only recently came out........ But as far as handing my ass to me, it is very easy to talk trash on a keyboard isnt it.... I couldnt do that...You seem to be an a**hole....... :flaming: So yeah you are right I will see you at track and I will make sure I see you we will how much trash you have to say then .......peace :tu:

[03'svtlight]

I will give ya some slack on this one since your a newbie and all. I may even answer more of your questions in the future. You really wouldn't say we are making recks based on nothing if ya new us.

As for me, I have tried each and every exhaust I gave recks or thumbs down on. Go ahead though and use that cowboy master exhaust and when we are at the track with my truck handing you your azz, I will try and help you out again.


My 12.11 truck tells my story...NO NOZZZZ, NO AFTER MARKET BLOWER....I must be doing something right.

Did your azz tickle from the smoke that guy blew up it about selling you some new invention that was exlusive to you. A "Cat Back Exhaust" is nothing more than a muffler welded to a piece of pipe pre-formed to allow the novice the ease of bolting it to the pipes after the cats. The exhaust that comes stock with an L is already so darned effecient, it is real tough to get a replacement that will top it. Flo-master doesn't do it.
Rocks
no but I know yours does naturally :eek2:

[03'svtlight]

no but I know yours does naturally :eek2:
Thanks Gaven and Ken....... I really appreciate your incite on this.....All I wanted was some answers to my questions but I got an a**hole instead but I guess there is one in every bunch....To bad he doesnt have the balls to back it up........... If you guys every need an alignment on your truck just let me know.....Im not bragging but if I cant align it the SOB is broke..... Im just good at it and thats all I do all day long.... Have been for the last 12 years..... Just so you know I appreciate it thats alll................. Trai

[03LightningRocks]

Newbie???? I think we have the same year truck.......Basically I didnt ask for your help or do I need it ...Maybe you havent had any luck with flows but have you ever had a flow cat-back???????Like I said I could easily take it off if it was something out there "proven" to be better, and that was all I was asking how you assumed it wasnt worth it when it only recently came out........ But as far as handing my ass to me, it is very easy to talk trash on a keyboard isnt it.... I couldnt do that...You seem to be an a**hole....... :flaming: So yeah you are right I will see you at track and I will make sure I see you we will how much trash you have to say then .......peace :tu:I do believe you started the insults by saying that Gavin and I where talking out of our azzes.
Bring it......See ya at the staging light.:nana2
Saturday at 8 am.....I love a good grudge match.

Rocks:tu:

[03LightningRocks]

I do believe you started the insults by saying that Gavin and I where talking out of our azzes.
Bring it......See ya at the staging light.:nana2
Saturday at 8 am.....I love a good grudge match.

Rocks:tu:

OOps, I forgot to say,we'll be at Ennis. We usually set up behind the staging lanes.

Rocks:tu:

[03'svtlight]

OOps, I forgot to say,we'll be at Ennis. We usually set up behind the staging lanes.

Rocks:tu:
No I didnt say anything of such, just didnt know if you knew I had a cat-back or not but its cool Ron, no hard feelings..... You have a pretty quick truck... Its faster than mine.... So what ??? Beat on your chest alittle if you want but I never intended on insulting you or anyone for that matter.... So seem to know and thats what I was asking but I never asked you personally about it though, its was just how do you know based on what I have........So now I know and I will take it off sometime next week .........peace :tu:

[03LightningRocks]

No I didnt say anything of such, just didnt know if you knew I had a cat-back or not but its cool Ron, no hard feelings..... You have a pretty quick truck... Its faster than mine.... So what ??? Beat on your chest alittle if you want but I never intended on insulting you or anyone for that matter.... So seem to know and thats what I was asking but I never asked you personally about it though, its was just how do you know based on what I have........So now I know and I will take it off sometime next week .........peace :tu:
It's all cool, I get to teasing around a bit to much sometimes. No offense intended. Most of us have had bad luck with flomasters, if yours is doing good...that's cool.

I have made somewhat of a test truck out of my truck by dumping alot of different mods on it fgrom day one. By feb, I had already run out of new bolt on's to add...LOL.

I really have tried the Gibson, flomaster and magnaflow. The magnaflow gave me the best down low torque and H.P. so I chose to keep that one, since my truck is more for the track than street. The one Gavin uses I have heard is pretty darned good also.

Come out to Ennis tommorrow anyway...it's a good chance to meet some of us. We all tease each other a bit but in the end we also try to help each other when needed.

Hope to see ya there for some fun and racing.

Rocks:beer:

[02BOLT]

Glad to see you two worked it out. 03'svtlight, I can assure you Rocks is NO A**HOLE. He's a blast to hang out with at the track, and is plenty knowledgable when it comes to modding these trucks. He has quite a few passes under his belt, so he has a lot of experience to draw from that may benefit guys like yourself, that are in the process of modding their L's, and need to know what works and what doesn't. For example, his advice earlier in reference to building a combination of mods that will work together to accomplish your performance goal is dead on IMHO. Hope you can come out to Ennis tomorrow morning. It's always cool to meet a new L brotha!:tu:


Later,
Rob:burnout:

[03'svtlight]

Glad to see you two worked it out. 03'svtlight, I can assure you Rocks is NO A**HOLE. He's a blast to hang out with at the track, and is plenty knowledgable when it comes to modding these trucks. He has quite a few passes under his belt, so he has a lot of experience to draw from that may benefit guys like yourself, that are in the process of modding their L's, and need to know what works and what doesn't. For example, his advice earlier in reference to building a combination of mods that will work together to accomplish your performance goal is dead on IMHO. Hope you can come out to Ennis tomorrow morning. It's always cool to meet a new L brotha!:tu:


Later,
Rob:burnout:
Thats cool, really didnt mean any harm .........Ill be there 2morrow nite...About 8ish....I want all the L owners to look under my hood and tell me all Ive done wrong!!!!! :) Seriously it runs decent for me not to have a chip..... I wanna do all my mods Im gonna do like a converter, long tubes etc., so I dont have to go through the hassle of reburns, or maybe the diablo predator will be out in a couple of weeks ..... All you guys are cool in my book and your opinons are taken seriously so like I said before I am the alignment guru, so if you guys need help in that dept. im here for you.............Trai :tu:

[02BOLT]

Thats cool, really didnt mean any harm .........Ill be there 2morrow nite...About 8ish....I want all the L owners to look under my hood and tell me all Ive done wrong!!!!! :) Seriously it runs decent for me not to have a chip..... I wanna do all my mods Im gonna do like a converter, long tubes etc., so I dont have to go through the hassle of reburns, or maybe the diablo predator will be out in a couple of weeks ..... All you guys are cool in my book and your opinons are taken seriously so like I said before I am the alignment guru, so if you guys need help in that dept. im here for you.............Trai :tu:
Just wanna clarify, we'll be there at 8:00 AM not pm. They open the gates at 8:00 in the morning and are running through the afternoon. I don't know if they're running tomorrow night or not. Just didn't want you to make a dry run. Hope you can make it out in the morning.

Later,
Rob:burnout:

[03'svtlight]

Just wanna clarify, we'll be there at 8:00 AM not pm. They open the gates at 8:00 in the morning and are running through the afternoon. I don't know if they're running tomorrow night or not. Just didn't want you to make a dry run. Hope you can make it out in the morning.

Later,
Rob:burnout:
I sure was thinking pm.......Thanks Did nt wanna drive from cedar hill for nuffin'........ Gotta work till 7pm so Ill take a rain check..... Let me know how it ran Rob..... Stopped by Terry's 2day....... Truck was there but no Terry... :tongue:

[rav1972]

I just ordered a borla exhaust today? What are your opinions of it?

[L8 APEX]

I was working on a Z06 off site this afternoon. Before then I was testing Robs transmission and line lock:burnout: :D But I am always by my phone:tu:

Damnit Ron, quit typing when stoned:hammer: . I say buy the exhaust for the sound. As for the +/- 5-10hp that is not a big deal for a street truck. All about the bling yo!

[03LightningRocks]

I was working on a Z06 off site this afternoon. Before then I was testing Robs transmission and line lock:burnout: :D But I am always by my phone:tu:

Damnit Ron, quit typing when stoned:hammer: . I say buy the exhaust for the sound. As for the +/- 5-10hp that is not a big deal for a street truck. All about the bling yo!
Ok...who snitched me out...LOL. Once you reach the age of 40, we call them prescription meds.:eek2:


Hope to see you out there in the morning. I have some funds burning a hole in my pocket.

Rocks:evil

[ken cryder]

Thats cool, really didnt mean any harm .........Ill be there 2morrow nite...About 8ish....I want all the L owners to look under my hood and tell me all Ive done wrong!!!!! :) Seriously it runs decent for me not to have a chip..... I wanna do all my mods Im gonna do like a converter, long tubes etc., so I dont have to go through the hassle of reburns, or maybe the diablo predator will be out in a couple of weeks ..... All you guys are cool in my book and your opinons are taken seriously so like I said before I am the alignment guru, so if you guys need help in that dept. im here for you.............Trai :tu:
start with the basics . the long tubes will not gain you what the diference in price till you get to where rob is on your boost . a converter is not going to be of any use if you pull a trailer , a reprograming kit in the tranny will help alot , that way you can keep the line preasure stock and take less of a chance of a mod line valve over running and sticking , and burnig up your tranny .
first a #5 lower pulley . a ram air and a chip will get you in the high 12s low 13s . then you need to think about some slicks and traction bars . you want to get the most bang for you buck . and as ron said The exhaust that comes stock with an L is already so darned effecient, it is real tough to get a replacement that will top it (ken)" that's why i found putting a small cross over tube before the mufflers , and the spintech seem to give it just the right amount back preassure . some of have more money in our trucks than others . but it does take alot of money to really make it fast . i don't have bud about $2000 in mods in mine and i'm running low 12s with stock t/c and 3.55 rear end . so it's very important to take your time and pick your mods wisely .

ken

[03LightningRocks]

start with the basics . the long tubes will not gain you what the diference in price till you get to where rob is on your boost . a converter is not going to be of any use if you pull a trailer , a reprograming kit in the tranny will help alot , that way you can keep the line preasure stock and take less of a chance of a mod line valve over running and sticking , and burnig up your tranny .
first a #5 lower pulley . a ram air and a chip will get you in the high 12s low 13s . then you need to think about some slicks and traction bars . you want to get the most bang for you buck . and as ron said The exhaust that comes stock with an L is already so darned effecient, it is real tough to get a replacement that will top it (ken)" that's why i found putting a small cross over tube before the mufflers , and the spintech seem to give it just the right amount back preassure . some of have more money in our trucks than others . but it does take alot of money to really make it fast . i don't have bud about $2000 in mods in mine and i'm running low 12s with stock t/c and 3.55 rear end . so it's very important to take your time and pick your mods wisely .

ken
I am a big fan of the X pipe before the mufflers also.:tu:

Rocks

[03'svtlight]

I am a big fan of the X pipe before the mufflers also.:tu:

Rocks
Im gonna give those spintechs w/x pipe a try....Wish I could here Kens just to see how aggresive it is....... Thanks Ron and Ken!!!!! :tu:

[03LightningRocks]

Im gonna give those spintechs w/x pipe a try....Wish I could here Kens just to see how aggresive it is....... Thanks Ron and Ken!!!!! :tu:
Andrew has them also....I don't remember if he has an x pipe. PM him and see if he'll be somewhere you could meet up and hear what they sound like.

It looks like I'll be going to Redline in the morning to run with the torque masters club. Ken is a member of it and he'll be there also. Gates open at 8 am and we'll be there all day. You could drop by out there and hear the magnaflow and the spintech. That's safer than taking a chance and ending up with a sound you aren't happy with.

Another option is to make the next Talon get together and listen to a bunch of different exhausts. The next meet is at Hooters in Mesquite on thursday next week...6pm.

Come on out and meet all the guys...(and gals?):beer:


Rocks:d

[03'svtlight]

Andrew has them also....I don't remember if he has an x pipe. PM him and see if he'll be somewhere you could meet up and hear what they sound like.

It looks like I'll be going to Redline in the morning to run with the torque masters club. Ken is a member of it and he'll be there also. Gates open at 8 am and we'll be there all day. You could drop by out there and hear the magnaflow and the spintech. That's safer than taking a chance and ending up with a sound you aren't happy with.

Another option is to make the next Talon get together and listen to a bunch of different exhausts. The next meet is at Hooters in Mesquite on thursday next week...6pm.

Come on out and meet all the guys...(and gals?):beer:


Rocks:d
Ive heard of redline I just dont know where it is..Probably couldnt make it anyways, but Ill try to make that hooters deal ok.....First round of beer is on me ok Rocks :beer: And as for the girls.............ITS ALWAYS ABOUT THE GIRLIES!!!!! :eek2: "look at that" :D
Is that air I see between the ennis launch pad and your front wheel??? :tongue:

[ken cryder]

CHALLENGE REDLINE FALL
Redline Raceway
Royse City, Texas
Sunday, November 2, 2003
Ph. 903-527-5911
Gates open at 8am

GENERAL INFORMATION
Time trials start at 8:30am
Eliminations begin right after time trials

FEES
Redline : Car & Driver $25, Spectator $12

Ok y'all this is the last race of the season as well as being the Big Dog race for all the Race of Champion winners. We are trying to regain and hold a 3rd place finish. That's a huge improvement for us as a team from 10th place out of 40 clubs last year to 3rd place this year. Please come out and support your TMCCC racing team.


if you come from dallas take 635 east to interstae 30 take it east to royce city . if your comeing from the north you can take hwy 380 east and when you get to greenville drop down to royce city .

i've only race there once but it seemed to be a decent track . every boby is welcome no matter what you drive . and a good show of lightnings would really be great .:cool:

this is about teams racing teams and i really wish talon would join next year .


ken