uncle sam does he drive a l,,?

[mc-svt]

my new l arived in port so i pay tax (uncle sam i think u all call it)
he takes 6 days to work out what i need to pay ,then calls me yesterday ,call me stupid but he calls me on my phone after looking up my phone number and checking out paper work,
to say ,can i send him a utility bill to prove its me ,,
then today he says i need to pay $18,000 for duty and tax
after i pick myself of the floor i had to ask him again,
i have no choice its tax for what,,,,does he drive an l,
i think not ,,,,
heres the worst :throw: of it ,says at end of day ,calls me says oh the truck cant come out of container till wed,,,,well,,,,

the truck leaves for scotland tues like they promised me,now they say i mis the week the truck leaves so i need to pay a week storage ,,$100 a day ,,,,after i sayed a few f words at him,,
he came round to my way of thinking,,,but didnt promise,,he made it like he was doing me a favour ,,,,,
yeah :hammer:
great i feel a lot better after typing this got a whole lot of my chest,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
will keep ya all informed when it arives if it arives,,,

[L8 APEX]

No he doesn't need a Lightning because he rides on our backs and in our pockets:throw:

[mc-svt]

sorry,,,,,$18,000
no it dont feel any beter saying it again,,,
but to share a problem is a problem halfed ,,,
,,
thing is guys ,i havent told the other half yet,she is going to go hell mad at me,,,all night i was looking for right time,,,,come monday i have to pay the money,,,so i sitting here drinking my self stupid,,,maybe tell her tomorrow,,,,maybe not,,,,,haaaaaa haaaaaa,
gee,,,,
she wont mind paying the money its when i tell her who to ,,,,,,dammmmmmmmmmmmm

[Tex Arcana]

sorry,,,,,$18,000
no it dont feel any beter saying it again,,,
but to share a problem is a problem halfed ,,,
,,
thing is guys ,i havent told the other half yet,she is going to go hell mad at me,,,all night i was looking for right time,,,,come monday i have to pay the money,,,so i sitting here drinking my self stupid,,,maybe tell her tomorrow,,,,maybe not,,,,,haaaaaa haaaaaa,
gee,,,,
she wont mind paying the money its when i tell her who to ,,,,,,dammmmmmmmmmmmm
Amazing... these f****rs are making billions from all of us, and then the scre YOU on taxes?? WTF is that all about??

And those idiots wonder why tehre's such a huge grey market for cars.. :hammer:

[my2002lightning]

Norman,

Hang in there! :tu: "The Man" has us all in a squeeze over here too. High taxes, outsourcing TONS of jobs to India, Shell's 93 octane at $2.23 here in Plano, Texas. The list goes on...

When you get the L, take some pics of the L in the Scottish countryside. I want to visit there someday. :bows :)

I understand there are Gen. 2 Ls in England, Germany, Sweden and Spain. I seem to remember one over in Australia too.

Ronald

[03LightningRocks]

LOL..........Ronald, you may be crying about 2 dollar a gallon gas, to a guy who pays over 6 dollars a gallon.:D


On a different note..........I kind of get a kick out of out sourcing. I think of it as a pay back, for the lack of support the techy crowd gave to the American Unions , back when the Unions first tried to warn of things to come. Let's hear it for foriegn cars...LMAO.......I guess the techies thought they where immune.



Rocks:banana:

[Tex Arcana]

LOL..........Ronald, you may be crying about 2 dollar a gallon gas, to a guy who pays over 6 dollars a gallon.:D


On a different note..........I kind of get a kick out of out sourcing. I think of it as a pay back, for the lack of support the techy crowd gave to the American Unions , back when the Unions first tried to warn of things to come. Let's hear it for foriegn cars...LMAO.......I guess the techies thought they where immune.



Rocks:banana:
Unfortunately, we *ALL* pay the price of this outsourcing, not just the "techies". We pay in overall salaries being driven down to the basement; in overtime rules being rewritten to make it easier to exempt any employee; in employers requiring longer hours for no appreciable increase in compensation.

And the "techies" aren't the only ones: corporations are outsourcing the creation of Powerpoint presentations! They are trying to eliminate employees right and left, by introducing automation (MsDonald's is creating the completely automatic McDonald's store, with no human employees required). Today, the biggest employer is WalMart, with McDonalds coming in second; IBM is a very distant third, and the automotive manufacturers fall below that.

What does that tell you?? It tells me that American corporations are doing everything they can to drive down salaries, and drive up short-term profits, any possible way they can, up to and including buying politicians and laws in their favor.

And we are letting them do this. :flaming:

[03LightningRocks]

Unfortunately, we *ALL* pay the price of this outsourcing, not just the "techies". We pay in overall salaries being driven down to the basement; in overtime rules being rewritten to make it easier to exempt any employee; in employers requiring longer hours for no appreciable increase in compensation.

And the "techies" aren't the only ones: corporations are outsourcing the creation of Powerpoint presentations! They are trying to eliminate employees right and left, by introducing automation (MsDonald's is creating the completely automatic McDonald's store, with no human employees required). Today, the biggest employer is WalMart, with McDonalds coming in second; IBM is a very distant third, and the automotive manufacturers fall below that.

What does that tell you?? It tells me that American corporations are doing everything they can to drive down salaries, and drive up short-term profits, any possible way they can, up to and including buying politicians and laws in their favor.

And we are letting them do this. :flaming:


Your preaching to the choir brother. As I said before.........The American Unions warned of this years ago, but White Collar workers scoffed at them.

Now they too, must pay the price.

Everytime we order a Big Mac at the drive through, and the person taking your order can't even speak English, your seeing the future.


Rocks:tu:

[my2002lightning]

Ron,

I know gas prices are alot more than over here and their tax rates at much more than here. It's all relevant, I guess.

As far as you bustin' my chops on outsourcing, I joined the IT industry in '98 and never been affiliated with any union or even IT univ. societies. I just busted #ss, made my grades (worked full-time at Hertz Data Center in OKC -during my senior year) and jumped on the opportunities as they arose through the years.

Think about this: These "immune techies" that are sitting idle state-side can no longer buy luxury vehicles, dine out every night and buy nice, new homes as they used to.

They can't feed the U.S. housing industry and, ultimately/maybe, your HVAC business. I don't think it's as cut-and-dry as you think. It's all relative, Uncle Rocks and it affects us ALL.

Oh, btw, IT isn't the only job category being affected.

Management
Business
Computer
Architecture
Life Sciences
Legal
Art, Design
Sales
Office

:eek2:

This is all from the Offical US Dept. of Labor statistics:

http://www.onshorealternatives.com/index2.html

Check out those forecasts! :mad:


Happy Memorial Day TALON! Be safe...

Ronald




LOL..........Ronald, you may be crying about 2 dollar a gallon gas, to a guy who pays over 6 dollars a gallon.:D


On a different note..........I kind of get a kick out of out sourcing. I think of it as a pay back, for the lack of support the techy crowd gave to the American Unions , back when the Unions first tried to warn of things to come. Let's hear it for foriegn cars...LMAO.......I guess the techies thought they where immune.



Rocks:banana:

[03LightningRocks]

Where was your opinion 10 years ago....LOL. What I am doing is remembering the battles we used to go through when I was a TWU airline fueler in the 80's.

I have a hard time forgetting the lack of support from the white collar crowd. I remember vividly hearing non-stop comments from them about us being paranoid and unreasonable when we would express concerns over immigrants taking our jobs at lower pay.

Now the day has arrived for them/you also.

I realize you where just a kid in High School then, so it's not personally directed at you........But it is my way of saying...I told you so.


Rocks:beer:

[03LightningRocks]

Oh and by the way. What on earth would ever inspire you to think that you somehow have a better grasp on the working of our economy than I? As a business owner, I know all to well the affects of unemployeement in the tech sector.

So don't think for one minute, that I am in favor of out sourcing. I just get somewhat of a kick out of hearing the same group cry, that used to tell us we where full of crap 20 years ago.


Rocks:beer:

[my2002lightning]

Uh, let's see... one of my undergrad degrees in Economics - they even paid me to tutor freshmen/sophmores/juniors.

BTW, my parent's are blue-collar and live in rural OK. My father is "The Man" at the BF Goodrich/Michelin plant in Ardmore in the machine shop for his years of experience. Mom worked there too before she was seriously injured! :mad: . My younger brother works at OK. Steel and Wire in Madill running tracked equipment and welds.

I guess I was the family "odd-ball". Imagine that. :D

Ronald






Oh and by the way. What on earth would ever inspire you to think that you somehow have a better grasp on the working of our economy than I? As a business owner, I know all to well the affects of unemployeement in the tech sector.

So don't think for one minute, that I am in favor of out sourcing. I just get somewhat of a kick out of hearing the same group cry, that used to tell us we where full of crap 20 years ago.


Rocks:beer:

[03LightningRocks]

Uh, let's see... one of my undergrad degrees in Economics - they even paid me to tutor freshmen/sophmores/juniors.



Ronald

What you learned from a book does not make you more intelligent than anyone. That was what I thought you where thinking. I just wanted to see you admit it.

Rocks:evil

[my2002lightning]

Whatever! :rolleyes: I'll elaborate more tomorrow. It's late and I'm sleepy.

There are very many forms of "intelligence", how humans are born with it and grow with it.

Ronald




What you learned from a book does not make you more intelligent than anyone. That was what I thought you where thinking. I just wanted to see you admit it.

Rocks:evil

[98Cobra]

Oh and by the way. What on earth would ever inspire you to think that you somehow have a better grasp on the working of our economy than I? As a business owner, I know all to well the affects of unemployeement in the tech sector.

So don't think for one minute, that I am in favor of out sourcing. I just get somewhat of a kick out of hearing the same group cry, that used to tell us we where full of crap 20 years ago.


Rocks:beer:
http://www.trietsch.com/images/forumpics/wow.jpg

/obligatory

My dad has been in business for himself just as long, and I sure wouldn't consider him an expert on the inner workings of the economy...(sorry Dad.)

OTOH, while I think unions have/had their time and place, they can be the cause of lost jobs as much as anything else. My uncle works for Grinnell Fire Suppression Systems, and when they go to install one in a building(this is Chicago) they can't do CRAP without union labor. Which means, you CANT move a piece of furniture out of the way, you have to let a unie do it. They have to pay someone $30+ an hour to RUN THE ELEVATOR.

THAT'S ABSURD.

My 2 cents...

[Tex Arcana]

Interesting discussion... and some interesting thoughts and opinions. Unions had thier place, back around the turn of the 19th/20thcentury, because working conditions were atrocious, benefits nonexistent, and pay horrible.

In the recent past, American workers wer the best paid, had the best benefits, and some of the best conditions. Just the goal, hm?

But during the whole time, corporations, and big owners were chafing. Chafing at the expenses, at the whole concept of paying workers a fair wage!! The said, "Screw them!! Screw their "fare wage"! *We* don't give a rats *ss about thier working conditions! We don't care a squirt of p*ss that they want to make a fair wage--it cuts into our profits!!"

So these greedy bastards started playing games with the books, cutting people to enhance short-term profits, so they could get thier multi-million-dollar bonuses. And the companies didn't see the effects of losing people until AFTER the fatcat ran to the bank and some other company with even bigger salaries and bonuses. And the companies eitehr foundered or died (see Lone Star Steel for a perfect example).

BUt that wasn't enough. THe fatcat corp-rats were greedy, and wanted more money, no matter who it hurt, or what it did to the company, the people, the economy. So, they continue their raping ways, hoodwinking investors into thinking 20% increases a year is normal and expected, slashing people and fixing the books to make it look like they made that 20%. Then off they go to another company, to do the same, while the previous one founders and dies.

WHile all this is hapening, wages keep rising, partially because of inflation, but mostly because the number of skilled workers is shrinking, and they can demand more. And the fatrats can't stand this, so they start buying politicians, to start changing the rules, to return this nation to the "old" ways of doing thing, turning people into cheap cannon fodder, and cutting the single biggest expense in any concern: labor.

Enron happens, Bush happens, and the new labor laws happen, and not only are they bringing in cheap labor, but they begin exporting jobs, to cut costs. And, of course, this is just short-term cuts, to make the bottom like look better (or to hide some improper accounting practices that will land them in jail if exposed), and to nail the corp-rats that all-important bonus, and the next new super-high-paying job.

In the meanwhile, whole families are bankrupted, some even left living in cardboard boxes, whole families ripped apart becasue those who got laid off can't find another job except at WalMArt or McDonalds.

TOday, you can't get a blue-collar job that could support even one person, much less a family. More and more jobs are either being eliminated or sent overseas, all in the cause of individual profit, even over corporate profit.

All of this is pushing the salaries down to the cellar, that and illegal/immigrant labor, that's wlling to work for pennies on every dollar that an American worker needs to earn.

This is precisely what the Corporate Aristocracy wants. Keep the plebeians poor and downtrodden, while the rich get richer, and keep their power base.

I"m an engineer, who is STILL unemployed, after a year. I've always believed that it's the people who do the work that are a company's greatest asset, and that the disparity of salaries is way off the scale. Big corporations are so top-heavy that they can't even support themselves without cheating and cooking the books (and that list is LONG of corps that have done this, and I suspect the list of extant ones is even longer). And the ones who do the REAL work (engineers, programmers, laborers, assemblers, etc) all get screwed the hardest, and are the ones who lose thier jobs first, while the fatcats (who make the salaries of 100 or more REAL workers) stay on 'til the very end, and move with their destruction on to another company, while leaving behind unspeakable damage.

Some of you will read this and scream "Communism", but that's not true. I'm just calling for fairness, and fair wages and working conditions for everybody. I'm calling for the corporate fatcats to remember on whose backs they climbed to the top in the first place, the people that make up the real value of ANY company, and that that expense is inescapable, and should just be accepted. Make sure everyone earns good money, keep them happy, and they ALL will make the company so much better that the profits will roll in and benefit EVERYONE. And the company will do better, more money will roll in, and EVERYONE will profit, even if it's not 20% a year.

I despair of this, tho, because today "business ethics" is a contradiction in terms. :(

And I despair for our way of life, as the corporations get bigger and bigger, and start to rule EVERY aspect of out lives. :(

/rant.

[03LightningRocks]

http://www.trietsch.com/images/forumpics/wow.jpg

/obligatory

My dad has been in business for himself just as long, and I sure wouldn't consider him an expert on the inner workings of the economy...(sorry Dad.)

OTOH, while I think unions have/had their time and place, they can be the cause of lost jobs as much as anything else. My uncle works for Grinnell Fire Suppression Systems, and when they go to install one in a building(this is Chicago) they can't do CRAP without union labor. Which means, you CANT move a piece of furniture out of the way, you have to let a unie do it. They have to pay someone $30+ an hour to RUN THE ELEVATOR.

THAT'S ABSURD.

My 2 cents...
Your arguments are kind of weak.....The only thing that you prove is that owning a business does not make you an expert either. And I guess from your comments about the American workers, you feel that out sourcing is a good thing?

Rocks:tu:

[03LightningRocks]

Gosh Tex.....I really could not make myself read all that. :eek:



Rocks:confused:

[Silver_2000]

To read Tex's argument anyone that has employees is Evil. Anyone who manages someone elses work. That make Rocks evil so I agree.. :evil

Back to the discussion - The reason that Walmart is such a big employer is because everyone goes there to shop to buy stuff at the lowest cost. We all buy cheap foreign made goods.

There is no union connection other than the fact that many of the people in Walmart are union workers that simply buy walking in the door are putting their "brothers" out of work.

You want to spur the economy ? Buy american ... The cost for american made clothes is so high that no one is buying them .. Thats why Levi Straus the union shop is going out of business....

There is NO way that unions would have slowed the outsourcing of jobs. The cheap labor market in developing countries would have found work no matter what.

In my view unions in the current form are outdated. The recent airline negotiation is a good example - While the airlines are losing money hand over fist the union employees are guaranteed raises and bonuses. Thats a GREAT way to bankrupt another huge corporation. Unions like bankrupting corporations though so its ok...

This is from a non union employee who just got his first raise in 3 years. I know for a fact that if I had been a union employee the company I work for would have shut down....

Doug

PS - Rocks are you and your employees all in Unions ?
Here is some recent HVAC Union data ...
http://www.ualocal250fitter.com/L250MEMBERSHIPINFO.html
Tell me how you can justify paying a Journeyman ( rookie, beginner ) HVAC tech $30 an hour ? Thats F'ing rediculous

Doug

[03LightningRocks]

LOL...............I'm not evil:( .

What I do find entertaining.....watching a thread go fom a bitch about paying taxes....full circle to a debate on Labor Unions:d .


That's what I get for teasing Ronald about out sourcing.:throw:


Rocks:evil


No Doug...we are not union. Texas is not the friendliest of union states. I don't think the fine folks in our community want to pay the labor rates reflected in 30 dollar an hour apprentices.

And just to clarify. I never said wether I was "pro union" or not. I simply pointed out that 20 years ago, Blue Collar workers complained of cheap foreign labor while white collar workers scoffed at the problem. Now the white collar folks are facing the same demons.

[Silver_2000]

Another tasty union story.. I have family in the concrete business up north.. They can only do concrete like 6 or 7 months of the year so what do they do ? They go on unemployment, and drive the same heavy equipment in the winter with plows on the front.. Double dipping at yours and my expense...

:rolleyes: :flaming:

[03LightningRocks]

Doug,

I just read the link you posted. That is the highest paid union HVAC in the industry. They are out of California which explains the higher pay scales.

You scared me for a minute there...LOL. Texas tends to lie in the middle of the wage categories.

The range in Dallas, Texas is 18-25 dollars an hour for residential techs. A first year fellow around here usually ends up bouncing from job to job untill he gets enough experience to not get fired in the slow season.

At the present time, health benefits are still provided by the company. If health insurance rates keep going up...there could be some shared costs be implemented for those that want to have coverage.

It's a tough business to make a profit in. Net margins of around 10-15% are considered good....LOL.
Labor is the biggest expense after costs of equipment.


And no, I have not looked at out sourcing as a solution....LMAO. Maybe I could ge some guys from India to commute:D .



Rocks:cool:

[Tex Arcana]

To read Tex's argument anyone that has employees is Evil. Anyone who manages someone elses work. That make Rocks evil so I agree.. :evil
NOw, now, don't read that into my story (more a fable than a statement, but it does reflect my frustration). :nono: However, if you look at large corporations, you'll see exactly how they treat people, and how they do everything they can to eliminate that single biggest expense: labor. You of all people should see this. And we all have seen a good company go bad becasue the people working for it have poor morale and refuse to work well because they're being treated like cattle.

And the biggest beef I have is the super-overpaid CEOs and VPs, who are making such a huge portion of the pie that a 10% reduction in their own salary would give them that gain they seek with a 1000+ person layoff. Again, what is wrong with this picture??



Back to the discussion - The reason that Walmart is such a big employer is because everyone goes there to shop to buy stuff at the lowest cost. We all buy cheap foreign made goods.

There is no union connection other than the fact that some of the people in Walmart are union workers that simply buy walking in the door are putting their "brothers" out of work.
Fixed. And WalMArt does the same thing (gee, they're a HUGE CORPORATION run by the same type of people, what a surprise): they will do ANY thing to cut labor costs, from hiring illegals (and we all know they do this, even AFTER getting busted), to makeing damned sure that nearly EVERYONE works below the part-time/full-time cutoff, so they don't have to supply health insurance (the second biggest cost in any corporation). When the MeatCutter's Union went on strike, WalMart just ignored the contract and immediately hired non-union labor to fill the spots--at about 50% less that they were paying the union people.


You want to spur the economy ? Buy american ... The cost for american made clothes is so high that no one is buying them .. Thats why Levi Straus the union shop is going out of business....

There is NO way that unions would have slowed the outsourcing of jobs. The cheap labor market in developing countries would have found work no matter what.

In my view unions in the current form are outdated. The recent airline negotiation is a good example - While the airlines are losing money hand over fist the union employees are guaranteed raises and bonuses. Thats a GREAT way to bankrupt another huge corporation. Unions like bankrupting corporations though so its ok...
You're right: buy American, if you can find any anymore. :(

No corporation can be bankrupted, if they who run them are doing thier jobs by making sure that the products are good and the service is better, so that value comes from the produce. And I have no problem with corporations: my real beef is with those executriods who have figured out that lying and cheating their way to the top is the norm, and the shenanigans they've pulled. The economy is teetering because of a small group of people have been cheating the rest of us, and then trying to make us pay for it, both by eliminating American jobs and by changing the laws to support their goals. IN the American Airlines example: the people who struck were the rank and file, the grunts, who make such a small percentage of what the execs and pilots make it's not even funny. And to be honest, I suspect teh reason for the strike was becasue American tried to eliminate a significant portion of thier salaries and benefits, while *maintaining* the exec's salaries (yes, I know the CEO "gave back" his salary, one year. But who konw how much of that came back to him under the table? ANd now he's gone, "retired", and someone else is running things, and getting paid a ridiculous amount of money for a guy that pushes a pencil).


This is from a non union employee who just got his first raise in 3 years. I know for a fact that if I had been a union employee the company I work for would have shut down....

Doug
And, being IT, it's amazing that you're still employed, especially since the people in INdia are beckoning, even as we speak... :eek2:


PS - Rocks are you and your employees all in Unions ?
Here is some recent HVAC Union data ...
http://www.ualocal250fitter.com/L250MEMBERSHIPINFO.html
Tell me how you can justify paying a Journeyman ( rookie, beginner ) HVAC tech $30 an hour ? Thats F'ing rediculous

Doug
I had no idea what Rocks did 'til you said this; but then again, he's a small business owner (at least I infer this from what I've read), and becasue he has to look his employees in the eye every day, he must take their humanity into account, every day. But he also has to realize that the true value in his company is in his people, as well as himself, and that without those people, it would be just him, trying to keep his head above water.

[03LightningRocks]

I had no idea what Rocks did 'til you said this; but then again, he's a small business owner (at least I infer this from what I've read), and becasue he has to look his employees in the eye every day, he must take their humanity into account, every day. But he also has to realize that the true value in his company is in his people, as well as himself, and that without those people, it would be just him, trying to keep his head above water.
Absolutely Correct.........and they are the reason for my success....without question.


Rocks:bows

[Tex Arcana]

Absolutely Correct.........and they are the reason for my success....without question.


Rocks:bows
:bows :bows :bows :bows Excellent... I respect you greatly, sir. :bows

[my2002lightning]

Tex,
You evidently haven't met Uncle Rocks in person yet, have you? :rll:

Regarding Unions, a good friend of mine, was a mechanical engineer in Quality Control, at the GM Assy. Plant in OKC. (and later Lansing, MI.) was vehemently against Unions.

One of the stories he told me was that there was this one Union guy in the paint shop that kept screwing up paint on the vehicles on the assy. line - over and over.

His non-Union boss got fed up and wanted to can him, but his Union official said that he couldn't even touch him because that would violate some Union points system they had in place.

It escalated up the chain of command a ways, but the screw-up in paint dept. stayed and they had to keep repainting his work until it was up to Production spec. Ultimately, that means the quality of the final product suffered and the vehicle price went up. :cool:

He even told me of a Union married couple out there that made well over $100K / yr. combined putting body trim pieces on vehicles. That's ALL they did! :eek2:

Regarding one example of outsourcing, and I don't think I pointed this out on here. One job board posted that they were hiring Informatica developers in Chennai and Bangalore, India for $3,400 / yr. (USD). That's ~$1.82 / hr. ! Their English on those boards is terrible and they ask the most basic questions about the technology. You get what you pay for. :hammer:

Sort of O/T, on a recent project I had up North, one of "hot-shots" from India and I were debating a technical point about something. We were on the whiteboard and going back and forth.

We were in agreement, but he thought I was contradicting him. I had to explain to him like 3x that I agreed with him, etc. and kept explaining myself SLOWLY... he finally got the point.:cool:

This is the same guy that made a slip-up in a meeting and suggested dropping the primary key field on an Oracle table (relational database). The whole room bust out :rll: . He finally realized what he said and was back-pedaling big-time! :hammer:

He even tried talking trash on me and back me in a corner once - he was a bit of an #sshole (same Hindi as above). I told him "Bakwaz nahee choop prohoo". He stopped and gave me the :eek: . Translation: You're full of sh#t!

He did a 180 with me and he was my "buddy" from that point. Asked me to go to Subway with him almost every other day. :D

Laney went to lunch with us once and she thought he was an #ss, too!

Just thought I would share that story...

Now, it's off to the pool to do something about my fish-belly white body and grill some ribs later with Sweetie!

Happy Memorial Day, TALON!

Ronald

[03LightningRocks]

Good lord Ronald...........Blah, Blah, Blah....and nothing useful said, yet again:rll: . Boy, you have alot of big tales.

- The World of Commander McBragg


This is the World of Commander McBragg
Your hair will curl in the World of McBragg.
He fights monsters galore
And then asks for still more
Or so says the brag of McBragg.

When on the hill the marines plant a flag
They may be led by Commander McBragg.
With a cannon in hand
He can beat any band
Or so says the brag of McBragg.

Fencing and fighting and round table knighting
And slaying of dragons, too.
Shipping and sailing and great harpoon whaling
There's nothing McBragg can't do.
Hunting and trapping and gold miner mapping
And flying to Timbuktu.
Roping and riding and Indian guiding
Commander McBragg comes through.

This is the World of Commander McBragg
Your head will whirl in the World of McBragg.
He can do anything
In his world he's a king
Or so says the brag of McBragg.






Rocks:evil

[98Cobra]

Your arguments are kind of weak.....The only thing that you prove is that owning a business does not make you an expert either. And I guess from your comments about the American workers, you feel that out sourcing is a good thing?

Rocks:tu:
Right, but I never said that I knew everything. I just was pointing out that you don't either. :D

Tex: Man that was a long read. And I have to say that I agree with you, for the most part - CEOs do get overpaid in a lot of cases. I guess one difference though is that if you screw up yours or my job badly, maybe a virus infects some computers, or a product gets a little delayed - but if a CEO does badly, it can spell the end for the entire company. With bigger risk should certainly come bigger rewards. And no, I don't think that if you crash a company you should get a "golden parachute" either.

For you Wal-Mart fans, read this article, and see how you are helping destroy America each time you shop there!

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

Lastly, while I don't like outsourcing any more than the next guy, I recognize it is a natural thing. Companies do have to compete with each other, and if reducing one of your largest expenses is possible without affecting quality, then they should do that. Blue collars bitched up a storm when auto makers started using robots in some sections of the assembly line, when what it did was boost production output, reduce cost, and reduce mistakes. A company would be foolish NOT to do it, but unions don't want to hear it. The difference with outsourcing IT is that in many cases, as Ronald has pointed out, the labor maybe be cheap as hell, but so is the work resulting from it.

[03LightningRocks]

[QUOTE=98Cobra]..........I just was pointing out that you don't either. :D

[QUOTE]


I would have to give that comment a great big....Aman Brothra!!! But I am trying, maybe some day....just not yet.


Rocks:D

[my2002lightning]

Uncle Rocks,
Put down the comic books and debate! :nana2

I'm just citing specific examples of Union and Outsourcing practices and results to back my points. Nothing but the facts.

Are you questioning my integrity? Because I DO KNOW you don't like yours questioned. :rll:

Ronald




Good lord Ronald...........Blah, Blah, Blah....and nothing useful said, yet again:rll: . Boy, you have alot of big tales.

- The World of Commander McBragg


This is the World of Commander McBragg
Your hair will curl in the World of McBragg.
He fights monsters galore
And then asks for still more
Or so says the brag of McBragg.

When on the hill the marines plant a flag
They may be led by Commander McBragg.
With a cannon in hand
He can beat any band
Or so says the brag of McBragg.

Fencing and fighting and round table knighting
And slaying of dragons, too.
Shipping and sailing and great harpoon whaling
There's nothing McBragg can't do.
Hunting and trapping and gold miner mapping
And flying to Timbuktu.
Roping and riding and Indian guiding
Commander McBragg comes through.

This is the World of Commander McBragg
Your head will whirl in the World of McBragg.
He can do anything
In his world he's a king
Or so says the brag of McBragg.






Rocks:evil

[03LightningRocks]

I have heard that about Walmart before. The funny thing is, anyone that goes to Walmart is usually looking for the great prices. Walmart is somewhat trapped by the reputation and Expectation of lowest pricing. If they raise the prices to pay higher wages....folks will go elsewhere.

I can testify to the problems of IT out sourcing. 2 years ago I purchased 3 Dell Computers for our office. I also bought the wonderful extended warranty. Imagine my disapointment to find out that the extended warranty meant, I get to talk to some guy in India that could barely speak english, while I attempt repairs on a computer that was torn into 25 different components. Boy that ticked me off. Not being able to understand 95 percent of what the guy said only made it worse.

I spoke to someone at Dell and was told that the labor costs of 10 bucks a day where hard for them to pass up....LOL. Not his exact way of saying it...but that was what it boiled down to.


Rocks

[03LightningRocks]

Now don't get mad Ronald.......My response to you was due, in part, to the previous shot you took at me. Remember typing this.... You evidently haven't met Uncle Rocks in person yet, have you? http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/rofl2.gif, in response to some saying I had their respect?

Now put your sword down.....before I run you through:D .



Rocks:evil

[my2002lightning]

Uncle Rocks,
I know - just goofing off and friendly debate.:beer:

Just pulling your hind-leg! :D

Ronald

BTW, my cousin and her husband in Allen (they own their own Elec. Engineering company) bought a bunch of Dell PCs/laptops and will never do that again they say b/c of the Hindi helpdesk operators.




Now don't get mad Ronald.......My response to you was due, in part, to the previous shot you took at me. Remember typing this.... You evidently haven't met Uncle Rocks in person yet, have you? http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/rofl2.gif, in response to some saying I had their respect?

Now put your sword down.....before I run you through:D .



Rocks:evil

[03LightningRocks]

:D :beer: :cool:

[98Cobra]

I have heard that about Walmart before. The funny thing is, anyone that goes to Walmart is usually looking for the great prices. Walmart is somewhat trapped by the reputation and Expectation of lowest pricing. If they raise the prices to pay higher wages....folks will go elsewhere.

I can testify to the problems of IT out sourcing. 2 years ago I purchased 3 Dell Computers for our office. I also bought the wonderful extended warranty. Imagine my disapointment to find out that the extended warranty meant, I get to talk to some guy in India that could barely speak english, while I attempt repairs on a computer that was torn into 25 different components. Boy that ticked me off. Not being able to understand 95 percent of what the guy said only made it worse.

I spoke to someone at Dell and was told that the labor costs of 10 bucks a day where hard for them to pass up....LOL. Not his exact way of saying it...but that was what it boiled down to.


Rocks
And they say companies don't listen to their customers.... :)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103955,00.html

[03LightningRocks]

And they say companies don't listen to their customers.... :)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103955,00.html

Well I'll be damned!!!!!!!!


Rocks

[Tex Arcana]

Lastly, while I don't like outsourcing any more than the next guy, I recognize it is a natural thing. Companies do have to compete with each other, and if reducing one of your largest expenses is possible without affecting quality, then they should do that. Blue collars bitched up a storm when auto makers started using robots in some sections of the assembly line, when what it did was boost production output, reduce cost, and reduce mistakes. A company would be foolish NOT to do it, but unions don't want to hear it. The difference with outsourcing IT is that in many cases, as Ronald has pointed out, the labor maybe be cheap as hell, but so is the work resulting from it.
One point: the more jobs that go out of country, means fewer people able to buy your company's stuff. Translation: slow death for everyone.

RObotics are one thing, especially for dangerous repetitive work; but outsourcing intellectual work is a whole 'nother ballgame--and American dollars *still* get sent overseas, not back into the economy. And all those people like Ronald who lost their jobs, and aren't able to find others, what do they do? Besides watch their lives fracture and collapse? THEY STOP SPENDING MONEY. And we all know that money flow is what keeps an economy going.

It's a matter of time, folks... just a matter of time...

[Tex Arcana]

For you Wal-Mart fans, read this article, and see how you are helping destroy America each time you shop there!

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html


Holy fscking sh*t... I want to :vomit: . THis makes me sick. "American", my ass. :mad:

All the stuff I've been saying about corporations and how they would rape us if it netted them a buck? Well, Wal-Mart has not only already done it, it's sold the remains overseas to bolster their bottom line.

THe list of comapnies that have destroyed themselves trying to supply WalMart is staggering--and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The companies I've been complaining about, are NOTHIGN compared to WalMart practices.

THis is positively criminal.

And I am ashamed, becasue I have contributed to this for I dont know how many years now. :flaming: