Republican Convention

[03LightningRocks]

Has anyone noticed that C-SPAN seems to filter through the "after show" calls, making sure to get some of the dumbest SUMBITCHES this country has to offer, talking on the phone.

[my2002lightning]

Yep, typical liberal media has been doing this for the longest.

It's amazing the extent to which the populace is swayed by the media.:rolleyes:

[LonghornLightning]

Kerry '04 ;) It's not that I think he's great or that i'm even democratic, I just don't believe we ever should have attacked Iraq for the reasons that we did, as simple as that.


go nader!

[Shiner1]

I'm not at all clear why we went to Iraq this time. It's concerning that Bush convinced the cabinet and the Joint Chiefs that conducting two seperate wars was a good idea. What is clear though, Kerry is not the answer to the question.

[tliss]

.... What is clear though, Kerry is not the answer to the question.Amen to that. If Kerry's record in the senate is any indication, he'll likely miss most meetings as president and elect not to vote on most issues. Just think, if you were to miss most of the meetings you are required to attend in your job, would you still be employed? Doubtful. I trust John Kerry about as far as I can pee into the wind. Damn Herman Munster-looking SOB. [:|

Tom

[Sixpipes]

Kerry '04 ;) It's not that I think he's great or that i'm even democratic, I just don't believe we ever should have attacked Iraq for the reasons that we did, as simple as that.


go nader!Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.....to be young and idealistic again. :cool:

http://www.arlington.fcps.net/carter/lava1.gif http://www.columbia.edu/itc/history/brinkley/3651/photos/sixties/Antiwar%20Poster.jpg http://www.arlington.fcps.net/carter/lava1.gif

[L1nt2B]

Kerry '04 ;) It's not that I think he's great or that i'm even democratic, I just don't believe we ever should have attacked Iraq for the reasons that we did, as simple as that.


go nader!
perhaps you would like to see Hilliary Clinton in the white house in 4 years too?

[Shiner1]

I would almost bet my L that she'll be there...:vomit:

[tliss]

I would almost bet my L that she'll be there...:vomit:
And I'll become a naturalized Canadian citizen. No way in hell will I stay here if she's president.

Tom

[Tex Arcana]

perhaps you would like to see Hilliary Clinton in the white house in 4 years too?

Better'n seeing the Bushistas going another 4 years... :(

[Crawford]

I wouldnt touch this subject with Tom's dick.
Oh wait... wrong joke...
I wouldnt touch this subject with a 10 foot pole. http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/rofl2.gif

[anglerx007]

And I'll become a naturalized Canadian citizen. No way in hell will I stay here if she's president.

Tom

Have you checked the Canadian tax rate lately?

[my2002lightning]

Why is it that rubber chickens and Tom's man-junk is a recurring theme around here? :D I'm starting to worry.

I just don't see Hillary making it to the White House even though she's currently a US Senator in NY state.

Yes, it seems the Democratic party is grooming her for the office, but I tend to think she doesn't have a chance at the Presidency.

Mainly because she's way too far left to win a popular election. Presidential elections tend to run in patterns, historically. I think the last liberal Democratic President from the East was Kennedy? That whole Liberal/Hillary combination just won't add up, I'm betting.

Besides, Bill was soft on terrorism and hog-tied the military with cutbacks - the fruit doesn't fall too far from the tree. From what I've seen, Hillary appears to be more liberal than Bill - no matter how much spin they put on it.

On top of all that, she has the whole Bill / Monica "black-eye" that will always haunt her.

That seems to be the last thing the voting US public wants/needs right now.

Besides, the Bush twin daughters are cute party girls - Dubya gets my vote!:D

[Shiner1]

I think the Hillary camp will strike when the iron is hot. It will have to be just the right time though. On the heels of a bad Rep president, when the country is really down on him. More so than Bush now. I think she'll be VP first to get everyone prepared then she'll make the move. I don't think the Monica thing bothers her at all. The press at least makes her out to be a hero for putting up with that lying sum-bitch for 8 years. You know she was doink'n some other guy on the side. She just never got caught.

[Tex Arcana]

I think the Hillary camp will strike when the iron is hot. It will have to be just the right time though. On the heels of a bad Rep president, when the country is really down on him. More so than Bush now. I think she'll be VP first to get everyone prepared then she'll make the move. I don't think the Monica thing bothers her at all. The press at least makes her out to be a hero for putting up with that lying sum-bitch for 8 years. You know she was doink'n some other guy on the side. She just never got caught.

Well, expect her in 8 years, then, unless the retardism of the nation has hit an all-time new low and the Bushistas get reelected--then be prepared for a full-blown depression that not even a war can pull us out of. :mad:

[Sixpipes]

Well, expect her in 8 years, then, unless the retardism of the nation has hit an all-time new low and the Bushistas get reelected--then be prepared for a full-blown depression that not even a war can pull us out of. :mad:A liberal political analyst, a mental health expert, and an economic guru all rolled into one. Now that's talent. :tu:

[blueoval01]

Personally, she should be doing "Hot Wings" commercials. :evil

[dboat]

Well,
I am for lower taxes and less government. It is there to protect me from aggressors and not from myself.
So I support Bush on this one. You have to look at the entirety of what they stand for and on balance I have to go with Bush. I trust Kerry to do exactly what he as in the past. Try to lower our defense and raise taxes. I pay more than enough in taxes and I would prefer more defense to less.
Dana

[my2002lightning]

I agree 100%, Dana! :tu:

A friend just sent this one to me:

http://www.bumperart.com/ProductImages/2004041315_Display-35.gif

[03LightningRocks]

I agree 100%, Dana! :tu:

A friend just sent this one to me:

http://www.bumperart.com/ProductImages/2004041315_Display-35.gif

Yep...Kerry's politics are like Texas weather. If you don't like it, just wait a couple hours....it'll change.

[Tex Arcana]

Well,
I am for lower taxes and less government. It is there to protect me from aggressors and not from myself.
So I support Bush on this one. You have to look at the entirety of what they stand for and on balance I have to go with Bush. I trust Kerry to do exactly what he as in the past. Try to lower our defense and raise taxes. I pay more than enough in taxes and I would prefer more defense to less.
Dana


Personally, I'm for a nice hapy medium: enough defense, enough government to protect people's interests, and enough laxity to let people do their jobs.

Tough gig.

But the Bushistas are patently in the pocket of big business, and are doing everything they can to reduce regulation to the point of a joke. As it is, more big businesses are getting away with damn near murder, if the employment picture and the economy are any indication. The "war" in Iraq was, in retrospect, a "wag the dog" situation, because Bush et al were about to get their asses handed to them in the Enron, Etc. scandal. Helliburton just got outed for thier misdeeds, both in Iraq and in other countries; and there's a passell more corporations that have damn near destroyed the economy single-handedly (Wal-Mart is at the top of that list, with any number of companies right up there). We have jobs heading overseas wholesale, illegal Mexicans flooding the country sending billions of dollars south of the border; we have people either out of work and unable to find work, or on the verge of losing their jobs becasue of this wholesale job rape.

"Liberal" and "Conservative", "Right-wing" vs "Left-wing" are nothing more than bad semantics; once upon a time, it was the Democrats that were called "conservatives", becasue they supported essential government controls to prevent monopolization and the worker abuses perpetrated during the INdustrial Revolution. The Republicans during those times were beholden to the interested of the priveleged few--hm, history repeating itself??--and were only intersted in paying off their benefactors.

Government ain't free: you gotta pay them to do their jobs. I'm willing to pay taxes for them to do those essential functions. But the tax code needs to be fair, and needs to be improved to close the loopholes. Fix that, fix the corruption, fix the wholesale buying of politicians, and get people voting, and I think things will improve.

But it ain't gonna be the present administration that will do it, because they are the source of the problem.

[Tex Arcana]

Yep...Kerry's politics are like Texas weather. If you don't like it, just wait a couple hours....it'll change.

EVERY politician is like that... they're as slippery as snake oil salesmen, and better funded.

[my2002lightning]

Speaking of Bush, Iraq and the media, here's a funny one I found: http://home.comcast.net/~band1t/filelib/newsreportfromIraq.wmv :rll:

Ronald

[L1nt2B]

Now that was funny :rll:

[dboat]

Personally, I'm for a nice hapy medium: enough defense, enough government to protect people's interests, and enough laxity to let people do their jobs.

Tough gig.

But the Bushistas are patently in the pocket of big business, and are doing everything they can to reduce regulation to the point of a joke. As it is, more big businesses are getting away with damn near murder, if the employment picture and the economy are any indication. The "war" in Iraq was, in retrospect, a "wag the dog" situation, because Bush et al were about to get their asses handed to them in the Enron, Etc. scandal. Helliburton just got outed for thier misdeeds, both in Iraq and in other countries; and there's a passell more corporations that have damn near destroyed the economy single-handedly (Wal-Mart is at the top of that list, with any number of companies right up there). We have jobs heading overseas wholesale, illegal Mexicans flooding the country sending billions of dollars south of the border; we have people either out of work and unable to find work, or on the verge of losing their jobs becasue of this wholesale job rape.

"Liberal" and "Conservative", "Right-wing" vs "Left-wing" are nothing more than bad semantics; once upon a time, it was the Democrats that were called "conservatives", becasue they supported essential government controls to prevent monopolization and the worker abuses perpetrated during the INdustrial Revolution. The Republicans during those times were beholden to the interested of the priveleged few--hm, history repeating itself??--and were only intersted in paying off their benefactors.

Government ain't free: you gotta pay them to do their jobs. I'm willing to pay taxes for them to do those essential functions. But the tax code needs to be fair, and needs to be improved to close the loopholes. Fix that, fix the corruption, fix the wholesale buying of politicians, and get people voting, and I think things will improve.

But it ain't gonna be the present administration that will do it, because they are the source of the problem.

Just a couple of comments.
Most labor laws are generated by state govts not the feds. The difference in Tx and PA is huge, from an employers point of view.
The unemployment rate is as low as it was with Clinton in office and is darned near an all time low. I dont want folks out of work, but the percentage now is not much above the normal percent of folks that are in between jobs at any one point in time. I do find it interesting that folks expect to find a job where they live doing what they want to and earn what they want to earn. Sometimes you have to move. I understand Ronalds biatch about the movement of jobs overseas, however, I think he would admit that if he were more willing to relocate, he would have a job. I moved to get my current job, but I had certain income requirements and this job met them.
As a prior state employee, I always felt lower paid for the same work as my counterparts that were not govt employees. However, the benefits offered to state employees are so superior that it isnt even funny. There are differences but the state agencies are not necessarily managed by those that are rewarded for cutting costs. Because if you come in under budget, then your budget gets cut and the money given to the dept that is mismanaged, i.e. no good deed goes unpunished. Been there and done that.
So, having worked in a govt job, a privately owned business, a for profit publicly traded company and a non-profit entity, the one thing I can say, the for profit publicly traded guys at least are VERY CLEAR on what their objectives are and what they are willing to do to get there.
p.s. I wont shop at Wally World... off of soapbox
Dana

[my2002lightning]

...and just when you thought outsourcing to India couldn't get any worse: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5831747 :eek2:

What next, Gen. 3 Lightnings built in Bombay or New Delhi? :hammer: :cool:

BTW, "Bahkwaz nahee choop prohoo" = Hindi for "You are full of sh1t". :D

[TreeFiddy]

Kerry '04 ;) It's not that I think he's great or that i'm even democratic, I just don't believe we ever should have attacked Iraq for the reasons that we did, as simple as that.


go nader!

What reasons are those? That everyone agreed that Saddam had WMDs and that the UN was not enforcing the sanctions and inspecting their weapons programs? That we had gotten burned by not doing anything about Afghanistan and we decided that it would be a good idea to be safe rather than sorry this time, since the international community weren't the ones with the targets on their backs? That some of the 9/11 hijackers had met with senior Iraqi officials? We later found that France, Syria, Germany and Russia were still doing business with Iraq, selling them weapons, food and supplies behind our backs, which is why they were so critical of the invasion. Syria had been helping them move the chemical weapons across the border before we arrived, which they tried to use in a thwarted attack on Jordan.

We didn't have enough evidence to act on Afghanistan, so we waited until the buildings were smoking. We didn't want to wait for more dead bodies before we did something about Saddam. Everyone agreed that it was the right thing to do at the time, but suddenly everyone gets selective memory and starts bad-mouthing the president.

The difference between a conservative and a liberal is that a conservative won't abandon you and say "I never really wanted to do this" when the fight gets difficult.

How do you vote for someone when you honestly have no idea what he believes in? That seems awfully dangerous IMO. Add to that the fact that most of the Democrats have said that they would vote for anyone in order to unseat Bush and you should be even more scared of him.

[dboat]

Very Well Said :tu:


What reasons are those? That everyone agreed that Saddam had WMDs and that the UN was not enforcing the sanctions and inspecting their weapons programs? That we had gotten burned by not doing anything about Afghanistan and we decided that it would be a good idea to be safe rather than sorry this time, since the international community weren't the ones with the targets on their backs? That some of the 9/11 hijackers had met with senior Iraqi officials? We later found that France, Syria, Germany and Russia were still doing business with Iraq, selling them weapons, food and supplies behind our backs, which is why they were so critical of the invasion. Syria had been helping them move the chemical weapons across the border before we arrived, which they tried to use in a thwarted attack on Jordan.

We didn't have enough evidence to act on Afghanistan, so we waited until the buildings were smoking. We didn't want to wait for more dead bodies before we did something about Saddam. Everyone agreed that it was the right thing to do at the time, but suddenly everyone gets selective memory and starts bad-mouthing the president.

The difference between a conservative and a liberal is that a conservative won't abandon you and say "I never really wanted to do this" when the fight gets difficult.

How do you vote for someone when you honestly have no idea what he believes in? That seems awfully dangerous IMO. Add to that the fact that most of the Democrats have said that they would vote for anyone in order to unseat Bush and you should be even more scared of him.

[Tex Arcana]

Just a couple of comments.
Most labor laws are generated by state govts not the feds. The difference in Tx and PA is huge, from an employers point of view.
The unemployment rate is as low as it was with Clinton in office and is darned near an all time low. I dont want folks out of work, but the percentage now is not much above the normal percent of folks that are in between jobs at any one point in time. I do find it interesting that folks expect to find a job where they live doing what they want to and earn what they want to earn. Sometimes you have to move. I understand Ronalds biatch about the movement of jobs overseas, however, I think he would admit that if he were more willing to relocate, he would have a job. I moved to get my current job, but I had certain income requirements and this job met them.
As a prior state employee, I always felt lower paid for the same work as my counterparts that were not govt employees. However, the benefits offered to state employees are so superior that it isnt even funny. There are differences but the state agencies are not necessarily managed by those that are rewarded for cutting costs. Because if you come in under budget, then your budget gets cut and the money given to the dept that is mismanaged, i.e. no good deed goes unpunished. Been there and done that.
So, having worked in a govt job, a privately owned business, a for profit publicly traded company and a non-profit entity, the one thing I can say, the for profit publicly traded guys at least are VERY CLEAR on what their objectives are and what they are willing to do to get there.
p.s. I wont shop at Wally World... off of soapbox
Dana

That bit about the unemployment rate being low is the numero uno lie coming out of the white house right now. They are claiming this based on the number of people actually drawing unemployment, but will not count those who've already fallen off unemployment insurance, and haven't found work yet, mostly people like Ronald and I, or worse.

And IT isn't the only thing going overseas: electrical engineering, programming, even mechanical engineering are going overseas, becasue the only thing the corporations care about is the bottom line, to the exclusion of everyone and everything. Unfortunate, but true, and the only people that can stop it are US, those who vote, by voting into power people willing to balance things out, to prevent the overseas rush, to encourage business to build here and produce here.

If everyone is unelmployed, who will there be to buy all the sh*t the coprrats want to sell?? No one, and then everything will collapse in a apoplexy of greed.

[Tex Arcana]

What reasons are those? That everyone agreed that Saddam had WMDs and that the UN was not enforcing the sanctions and inspecting their weapons programs? That we had gotten burned by not doing anything about Afghanistan and we decided that it would be a good idea to be safe rather than sorry this time, since the international community weren't the ones with the targets on their backs? That some of the 9/11 hijackers had met with senior Iraqi officials? We later found that France, Syria, Germany and Russia were still doing business with Iraq, selling them weapons, food and supplies behind our backs, which is why they were so critical of the invasion. Syria had been helping them move the chemical weapons across the border before we arrived, which they tried to use in a thwarted attack on Jordan.

We didn't have enough evidence to act on Afghanistan, so we waited until the buildings were smoking. We didn't want to wait for more dead bodies before we did something about Saddam. Everyone agreed that it was the right thing to do at the time, but suddenly everyone gets selective memory and starts bad-mouthing the president.

The difference between a conservative and a liberal is that a conservative won't abandon you and say "I never really wanted to do this" when the fight gets difficult.

How do you vote for someone when you honestly have no idea what he believes in? That seems awfully dangerous IMO. Add to that the fact that most of the Democrats have said that they would vote for anyone in order to unseat Bush and you should be even more scared of him.

Iraq was a direct result of 9-11, and wouldn't have happened otherwise, because the evidence just wasn't there.

Honestly enough, I'd rather we dumped every fsking politician in the deepest part of the ocean, and start over with REAL people do the representing and such. Politics and the unbridled pursuit of unlimited power is causing all our problems, and we are getting screwed becasue we aren't doing what we should to prevent it.

Aw, hell with it: we're screwed. Might as well buy that mountain cabin, and move, because it's just a matter of time before this nation becomes a fascist autocratic theocracy. :crying:

[dboat]

Iraq was a direct result of 9-11, and wouldn't have happened otherwise, because the evidence just wasn't there.

Honestly enough, I'd rather we dumped every fsking politician in the deepest part of the ocean, and start over with REAL people do the representing and such. Politics and the unbridled pursuit of unlimited power is causing all our problems, and we are getting screwed becasue we aren't doing what we should to prevent it.

Aw, hell with it: we're screwed. Might as well buy that mountain cabin, and move, because it's just a matter of time before this nation becomes a fascist autocratic theocracy. :crying:

On the mountain cabin part...I've been thinking that way too... but only after I can afford to do it.. :evil

[dboat]

That bit about the unemployment rate being low is the numero uno lie coming out of the white house right now. They are claiming this based on the number of people actually drawing unemployment, but will not count those who've already fallen off unemployment insurance, and haven't found work yet, mostly people like Ronald and I, or worse.

And IT isn't the only thing going overseas: electrical engineering, programming, even mechanical engineering are going overseas, becasue the only thing the corporations care about is the bottom line, to the exclusion of everyone and everything. Unfortunate, but true, and the only people that can stop it are US, those who vote, by voting into power people willing to balance things out, to prevent the overseas rush, to encourage business to build here and produce here.

If everyone is unelmployed, who will there be to buy all the sh*t the coprrats want to sell?? No one, and then everything will collapse in a apoplexy of greed.

I have just a few questions. Have you chosen to only live in the Metroplex and to only find a job there or are you willing to relocate?
What and how would you propose to encourage business to build and produce here instead of overseas?
If the unemployment figures are a big lie, why are all the economic indicators going up?
:confused:

[tliss]

Must we lower ourselves and the standards of this forum by talking about politics?

I feel dirty now.

Tom

[dboat]

Must we lower ourselves and the standards of this forum by talking about politics?

I feel dirty now.

Tom

You are such a dirty boy... :evil
Dana

[Silver_2000]

Hate to say it but Tex has a point the Unemployment stats have ALWAYS been an easy number to fudge.

MANY IT folks are off the government tit so they dont appear in the stats

Either the benefits ran out or they went to work in another industry or they are working but at a significantly reduced rate

Doug

[02BOLT]

I'm no political expert by any stretch of the imagination, but as far as the war in Iraq goes....if I'm not mistaken, both Kerry AND Edwards voted to GO TO WAR with Iraq. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. If anyone honestly believes that Iraq did not have WMD's at some point, or at the VERY least, would not have been a threat in trying to attain them, then they need to have their fricking heads examined! Saddam Hussein and his regime clearly posed a serious threat to the National Security of this country on several fronts PERIOD.

I'm not saying that Bush is perfect by any means, but he's lead this country through one of the most difficult periods of American History, and did one hell of job IMO. At least with Bush, you know EXACTLY where he stands, and he does not base his decisions on the fricking polls. He stands by his decisions, however difficult they may be, and bears responsibiltiy for them. WAR SUCKS, there ain't no two ways about it, but in my opinion, he is a true LEADER. May God help America if he's not re-elected.

Later...

[L1nt2B]

Right on!

[dboat]

Hate to say it but Tex has a point the Unemployment stats have ALWAYS been an easy number to fudge.

MANY IT folks are off the government tit so they dont appear in the stats

Either the benefits ran out or they went to work in another industry or they are working but at a significantly reduced rate

Doug

The number can be fudged, but I have always thought that in any industry, one can usually move to find another job. The real issue has been those that are only willing to find it where they live at the moment. I feel that I have been able to increase my earnings and job knowledge because I was willing to move.
If one gets another job, then they are not unemployed.
Dana

[03LightningRocks]

I'm no political expert by any stretch of the imagination, but as far as the war in Iraq goes....if I'm not mistaken, both Kerry AND Edwards voted to GO TO WAR with Iraq. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. If anyone honestly believes that Iraq did not have WMD's at some point, or at the VERY least, would not have been a threat in trying to attain them, then they need to have their fricking heads examined! Saddam Hussein and his regime clearly posed a serious threat to the National Security of this country on several fronts PERIOD.

I'm not saying that Bush is perfect by any means, but he's lead this country through one of the most difficult periods of American History, and did one hell of job IMO. At least with Bush, you know EXACTLY where he stands, and he does not base his decisions on the fricking polls. He stands by his decisions, however difficult they may be, and bears responsibiltiy for them. WAR SUCKS, there ain't no two ways about it, but in my opinion, he is a true LEADER. May God help America if he's not re-elected.

Later...


:tu: :tu: :tu:

[03LightningRocks]

Mechanical Engineering???????? Funny coincidence this has come up. I was talking to Ronald and Mark Thursday night about my own :ron: (history of how I arrived at owning an HVAC Empire:D ).

At 19 years old, I had the desire to become a mechanical engineer. After putting in the equivalent of 2 years worth of credits to get closer to that goal, a College Counceler(sp), warned me that according to job trends and hiring statistics, I was heading for a profession that was already becoming glutted by new graduates.

Due mostly to life and the obligations of feeding a family of four, I was put in a position of having to get something that paid well quicker than the engineering degree would allow. I went to an HVAC trade school....Life moved on and I never arrived at the Mechanical engineering degree. Now I am doing just fine and have no desire to have the degree in engineering.

The point of my story is...........mechanical engineering was a rough road many years ago. Mostly due to the fact that a whole crap load of folks mine and Tex Arcana's age, thought wrongly to go into that field. The Mechanical Engineering field, suffers a problem way beyond anything one can blame a President, that has only been in charge for 3 and a half years for.

[Tex Arcana]

I have just a few questions. Have you chosen to only live in the Metroplex and to only find a job there or are you willing to relocate?
What and how would you propose to encourage business to build and produce here instead of overseas?
If the unemployment figures are a big lie, why are all the economic indicators going up?
:confused:

One: I choose to live here because there SHOULD be more opportunities, plus since my wife opened her bookstore, it would be a bad idea to bail now. So, since we're not hurting yet because of my umemployment, I can try to ride this out. Altho, I think I figured out why I'm getting NOTHING in the way of responses: I was redoing my resume for a job lead I found, and noticed that I had an egregious error: my last job was listed as from 2001-2002, not 2001-2003. :eek: Oooops. :o

Two: Reinstitution of basic protectionism laws that will encourage hiring US employees, opening US plants, and spending US money in the US, instead of sending US dollars overseas, to never be seen again. Also, tightening up the Mexican and Canadian borders, to prevent illegal immigration, to prevent the snapping up of US jobs by illegal aliens. Scrap the hell out of NAFTA, while we're at it, it's doing nothing but providing a huge illegal alien and drug pipeline, while sucking US dollars into Mexico.

Three: The economic indicators are controlled by Greenspan, and his wires run back to the White House. Remember the old adage: "lies, damn lies, and statistics". And the damn administration is twisting the truth harder than a pedophile priest twists the fears of his victims.

[Silver_2000]

One: I choose to live here because there SHOULD be more opportunities, plus since my wife opened her bookstore, it would be a bad idea to bail now. So, since we're not hurting yet because of my umemployment, I can try to ride this out. Altho, I think I figured out why I'm getting NOTHING in the way of responses: I was redoing my resume for a job lead I found, and noticed that I had an egregious error: my last job was listed as from 2001-2002, not 2001-2003. :eek: Oooops. :o

Two: Reinstitution of basic protectionism laws that will encourage hiring US employees, opening US plants, and spending US money in the US, instead of sending US dollars overseas, to never be seen again. Also, tightening up the Mexican and Canadian borders, to prevent illegal immigration, to prevent the snapping up of US jobs by illegal aliens. Scrap the hell out of NAFTA, while we're at it, it's doing nothing but providing a huge illegal alien and drug pipeline, while sucking US dollars into Mexico.

Three: The economic indicators are controlled by Greenspan, and his wires run back to the White House. Remember the old adage: "lies, damn lies, and statistics". And the damn administration is twisting the truth harder than a pedophile priest twists the fears of his victims.
Tex to add substance to your arguement - here is a list that will help


Gladly Pay MSRP for your next Union Built Ford
Dont Shop at Walmart or Target
Dont buy ANYTHING not made in USA from USA Parts
Sell all stock in any NASDAQ company that uses offshore labor ( hell just sell it all )
http://madeinusa.org/nav.cgi?data/elec
Dont buy any electonics - Except Bose - Here's a sampling. RCA's electronics business is owned by a French company. So's General Electric's. Quasar is Japanese. Sylvania is Dutch, as is Magnavox.
In fact, the only major American company left in the TV and VCR business is Zenith, and it could be bought up by foreigners before long.


It sucks...... We are screwing ourselves

Doug

[L1nt2B]

FYI Zenith is made by LG a Japanese company

[Tex Arcana]

Tex to add substance to your arguement - here is a list that will help


Gladly Pay MSRP for your next Union Built Ford
Dont Shop at Walmart or Target
Dont buy ANYTHING not made in USA from USA Parts
Sell all stock in any NASDAQ company that uses offshore labor ( hell just sell it all )
http://madeinusa.org/nav.cgi?data/elec
Dont buy any electonics - Except Bose - Here's a sampling. RCA's electronics business is owned by a French company. So's General Electric's. Quasar is Japanese. Sylvania is Dutch, as is Magnavox.
In fact, the only major American company left in the TV and VCR business is Zenith, and it could be bought up by foreigners before long.


It sucks...... We are screwing ourselves

Doug


I've covered two of those so far (The Lightning and the stock), and I'm trying to kill off the WalMart reliance (slowly, slowly weaning us off them). As for the electronics: when I was a copier tech, I serviced Sharps, RIcohs, Mitas, and the rebadged versions; when I worked for Kodak, I saw the writing on the wall when the best machines coming out of THEIR doors were the Canon-rebadged Kodak boxes. :( Three years later, Kodak goes under, never to be seen again.

It's a tough thing to do, to close the borders, and keep the money at home; but, once done, and the products and money is being piad HERE and circulates HERE, then the economy overall will be hella better than it is now. The only way for any economy can be healthy is if the money FLOWS, with spending. And that includs labor costs-they're inevitable, so just nut it up and pay it; at least the people who're buying the products are getting paid that way.

[Silver_2000]

I've covered two of those so far (The Lightning and the stock), and I'm trying to kill off the WalMart reliance (slowly, slowly weaning us off them). As for the electronics: when I was a copier tech, I serviced Sharps, RIcohs, Mitas, and the rebadged versions; when I worked for Kodak, I saw the writing on the wall when the best machines coming out of THEIR doors were the Canon-rebadged Kodak boxes. :( Three years later, Kodak goes under, never to be seen again.

It's a tough thing to do, to close the borders, and keep the money at home; but, once done, and the products and money is being piad HERE and circulates HERE, then the economy overall will be hella better than it is now. The only way for any economy can be healthy is if the money FLOWS, with spending. And that includs labor costs-they're inevitable, so just nut it up and pay it; at least the people who're buying the products are getting paid that way.Hate to tell you that the lightning was outsourced to Canada... And a HUGE % of the parts come form other countries...

[Tex Arcana]

Hate to tell you that the lightning was outsourced to Canada... And a HUGE % of the parts come form other countries...

Yeah, yeah, I know.. but then again, Canada is just like a huge northern state... :P

[dboat]

One of the big reasons for the outsourcing is because of the unions.
Protectionism is a two way street. If we do, so will others and we will lose in the long run.
Take a look at some of the cars, like VW and BMW and MB, they are assembled in plants in the US. So it does go both ways.
The only way to fix it is for US to be able to do it better/cheaper.
If you only buy things 100% USA, well then you wont be buying much, since few cars/trucks these days are 100% of any one country due to all the international content in all of them.

I will say this, lets agree to disagree, because I like all you guys. :tu:
Dana

[tliss]

My political view:

1) Politicians are ALL dumbasses and scumbags. I think we can all agree on that
2) Morality and politics don't mix, just like oil and water
3) Politicians have one faction in mind when running for office or while in office...themselves
4) The public's views make no difference to politicians. They believe in what they believe in, period
5) No politician is the perfect candidate, they believe in somethings that you can agree with and other things that you don't...see #2 and #3

My rules for voting:

1) Vote for the candidate that has as many of the same beliefs and ideas that you agree with
2) Vote for the candidate that is the lesser dumbass
3) Vote for the candidate that is least likely to screw up the events currently affecting the people in general

This is what I take to the polls. Here's my presidential voting records since I was old enough to vote:

1996 - Bill Clinton - why? Bob Dole..enough said
2000 - George Bush - why? Al Gore? Be realistic...another of Hillary's puppets

The two elections before that would have been Bush in 1988 (Dukakis....be realistic!!) and 1992 Bush (I really didn't like Clinton at the beginning...a governor from Arkansas...ewwwww).

Who will I vote for this year? George Bush. He meets my three voting criteria. Do I agree with everything he's done or believes in? No, but I never have believed in everything any candidate believed in. It's always the lesser of two evils to me.

Tom

[03LightningRocks]

Dana,


Is that another way of pointing out we live in a Global Economy? The fact is...your right. We sell many goods and services in other countries.

Isolation is not the answer.

If you think about the results of "punishing" companies for out sourcing for a minute, you may realize that the whole issue is not quite so simple.

Who is going to pay for the increased costs associated with Big Brother attempting to regulate a free market economy? We all are. One big circle....what goes around, comes around.


Rocks

[dboat]

Rocks, you got it :tu: :tu:


Dana,


Is that another way of pointing out we live in a Global Economy? The fact is...your right. We sell many goods and services in other countries.

Isolation is not the answer.

If you think about the results of "punishing" companies for out sourcing for a minute, you may realize that the whole issue is not quite so simple.

Who is going to pay for the increased costs associated with Big Brother attempting to regulate a free market economy? We all are. One big circle....what goes around, comes around.


Rocks