Glock built the shizzle

[L8 APEX]

A little excerpt from the Glock page concerning maritime use of their tools.



The marinized Glock 17 is primarily for use by various Special Warfare units operating in aquatic environments. At least one specialized Scuba diving group regularly uses G17's to dispatch sharks where they dive. The Glock 17 using NATO specification ball ammunition will completely penetrate a minimum of one 1/2" pine board at a distance of ten feet from the muzzle when fired underwater. Trained personnel who use Glocks underwater know they must obey several rules:
1) use only a Glock Model 17 with amphibious spring cups (reliability issue);
2) use only 9mm FMJ subsonic, sealed primer ammo;
3) completely immerse the pistol and get *all* the air out of the barrel;
4) wear protective ear plugs, gloves, wet suit, face mask, etc.;
5) do not fire near solid objects or in enclosed spaces to prevent return
concussion.

[my2002lightning]

The Glock 17 still isn't a Beretta 92 FS. :cool:

[L8 APEX]

Sure isn't, it holds two more rounds and the slides never cracked in two.:rolleyes:

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Why carry a plastic gun or a 9mm period when a real gun like a .45 is available?:rll:

[03LightningRocks]

Sure isn't, it holds two more rounds and the slides never cracked in two.:rolleyes:

:bows

[my2002lightning]

The slide/metallurgy issues were resolved back in the late 80s. :rolleyes:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/true_story_m9.htm

I wonder why SEALs/Rangers/Spec. Ops. still opt for the .45 when they "go to the office" over the 9mm.:rolleyes: The FBI has even gone big-bore since the '80s: http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm. The 10mm was a tad too hot even in the S&W Tactical Elites, evidently, so they downgraded to the .40 S&W.

Dont' get me wrong, I own both the Beretta 92FS and a Colt M1991 .45 Gov. Model (Ultimate-Bright SS, too :bows ) and love them both.

As I see it, if you're out for dangerous game or protecting yourself, bring more "umph" to the table and don't quit shooting until they're down.

I don't see why anyone would trust their life to "Tactical Tupperware" - from what I've seen, Glock was the low-bidder in the LE community and won.

Plastic/polymer Lightning short-blocks anyone? :cool:

[r1eater]

I love my G19 with the 17 round clip loaded with hollowtips. I dont care how tough or high on crack the SOB is, 17 hollowpoints is bad news and with 17 shots it just means I have more chances to hit their dumbass.

But if you really wanted to get silly or hide behind a brick wall or mack truck or something then just hit em with this... ;)

http://www.revlimitracing.com/boltvids/DesertEagle.jpg

Desert Eagle 50.. Check out the round on that fvcker.

[my2002lightning]

Will,

Right, it's all about shot placement, as I see it. Just like taking a whitetail with a .223 versus something bigger. It CAN be done, but you want more "gun" behind your trigger-finger.

Another fan of the Desert Eagle I see! :bows Was your DE made state-side? My MK VII was one of the last .44s made in Israel.

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/344MVC-085F.JPG

[TreeFiddy]

The fact that you've got "Replica" written down the side of your gun. And the fact that I've got "Desert Eagle point five O" written on the side of mine, should precipitate your balls into shrinking, along with your presence. Now... **** off. "- Bullet Tooth Tony

[r1eater]

:d best line ever

[jeff56]

I personally find it hard to understand why someone would like a Beretta. I have two. One is my dept issued off-duty gun. It sits in a drawer. The other I was presented when I got officer of the year. It sits in the display frame that it came in, which is where it belongs. My experience with Berettas is that they are overweight and have lots of places that can snag on your clothing.

I don't own one, but I have shot many a Glock and feel they are a great and reliable handgun. They are one of the best guns I have shot for point shooting, which is what most deadly force encounters will call for. I suppose if you want a nice display gun or one to take to the range and shoot in a Weaver stance, then a Beretta would be OK. Personally, I like a light weight, high capacity weapon that may not be pretty, but will get the job done. Heck, Terry's seen my USP. It's defintely seen it's better days, however, it will be and has been there for me when it counted.

BTW, you should get your finger off that trigger. :nono: :)

[L8 APEX]

LOL, it does seem like these 911 high brites and DE 50AE's are glory guns. I have three Berettas I bought my first 92FS when I was 17 or 18. I ran over five thousand rounds through it in two years. I shot three ducks at the lake over 50ft away. They are a reliable weapon but after picking up a Glock my 3 Berettas just collect dust. They are a piece of history for when LE and military requested a hi cap pistol and it was one of the first double stack magazines out there. They were made for capacity not killing power the 9mm is a weak round. But it is a NATO round and you can bum ammo off the enemy during a battle. The military is limited to ball ammo per Geneva convention. Spec teams uses 45 because it is naturally subsonic and a good candidate for supression. A 9mm in ball just pokes little holes in ball form. Like many firsts they were soon out performed by newer technology. There are several long term Glock tests published and they are all outstanding. Glocks are durable, simple to operate, high capacity, reliable. It would behoove you to listen to what SWAT team officers and pistol competitors say when they use Glocks to do their tasks. It is the most durable, simple, and reliable pistols over made. Most manufacturers stopped producing 10MM pistols due to frame cracking and the guns breaking themselves. Glock is the only manufacturer with a 10MM that has no issues at all. Glocks are not for dummys that is why they are not govt issue. The military requires a hammer and external safety on their pistols. Like Jeff noticed about your picture with your finger on the trigger. Tactical training and common sense says finger stays out of the trigger guard until you are ready to fire. I like you Ronald but you drive me crazy posting your jabberings on guns. Go shoot a Glock sometime and see for yoruself. Until then Brian and I will trust our lives to our tupperware. BTW my tupperware and I placed 9th in the last 3 gun competition against 100 other shooters (mostly SWAT and police) with every type of weapon out there 1911's incl Para Ordinance, HK, 92's, Ruger DC's, Walthers. capacity had a lot to do with it as well. The 7 shot Colt 1911 and revolver guys were reloading while I was dropping targets and clearing rooms. Don't call Glocks junk it's not nice:nono: .

[my2002lightning]

Jeff,

I hear ya'. The bottom-line, as I see it, is what ever the shooter feels comfortable with, be it Beretta/Glock/Sig/Colt/HK/etc. and can deliver the rds. down range effectively - it's all good!knana

Also, notice the Safey-On and the hammer dropped on the DE. :tu: Empty chamber - checked like 10x.

I'd hate to shoot off my fender! :rll:

[jeff56]

Jeff,

I hear ya'. The bottom-line, as I see it, is what ever the shooter feels comfortable with, be it Beretta/Glock/Sig/Colt/HK/etc. and can deliver the rds. down range effectively - it's all good!knana


I definitely agree with that. Personally, I'd love to pick one of these up. It's oh so pretty!
http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/pistols/tacticalultra_II.jpg

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Originally Posted by L8 APEX
BTW my tupperware and I placed 9th in the last 3 gun competition against 100 other shooters (mostly SWAT and police) with every type of weapon out there 1911's incl Para Ordinance, HK, 92's, Ruger DC's, Walthers. capacity had a lot to do with it as well. The 7 shot Colt 1911 and revolver guys were reloading while I was dropping targets and clearing rooms. Don't call Glocks junk it's not nicehttp://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/nono.gif . Just an observation or two:

1. Targets never shoot back
2. One hit with a .45 is equal to 3 hits with a 9mm, that is the reason the FBI has gone back to the 1911 for all of its tactical teams after a shootout in Miami.:cool:

[L8 APEX]

I hate 9mm myself they just irritate people that is why I like 357Sig it has 100+ more ft lbs energy and 400+fps more than 45's. Or the 10mm it hits harder than a 44 magnum. And training is the first step to combat, train like you fight, fight like you train.

[03LightningRocks]

BTW, you should get your finger off that trigger. :nono: :)

Holy Sh!t.....I didn't even notice that. This calls for one of these.



:ron: has been http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/226owned.gif

[jeff56]

Just an observation or two:

1. Targets never shoot back



Maybe so, but I'm still calling in sick the day Terry barricades himself in his house! :eek2: :rll:

[r1eater]

Just an observation or two:

1. Targets never shoot back
2. One hit with a .45 is equal to 3 hits with a 9mm, that is the reason the FBI has gone back to the 1911 for all of its tactical teams after a shootout in Miami.:cool:

Sounds like they need to learn to aim better to me. 1 shot in the heart or head no matter if its a .45 or 9mm, yo ass is going down.. believe that.

[my2002lightning]

I was wondering when ya'll were going to see where my trigger finger was! :D No ownage going on, here.

Trust me! The chamber was clear from a cleaning, hammer all the way down and safety on - DE's are single-action, btw .... and pointed toward the 150 ft.+ "mountain" behind Mom/Dad's house. The Desert Eagle .44 was/is as harmless as this die-cast L here on my desk - also notice that the magazine is removed.

I've hunted for years with rifles "hot" and kept my trigger finger straight-ahead and only put it on the trigger only when the target is straight-ahead and all is safe - including the hunt last week climbing tree-stands/four-pods/stalking.

I'll have to disagree, from what I've seen, that the 10mm hits harder than the .44 Rem. Mag, though with regards to ft. lbs. of energy.

A quick ballistic comparison between the 10mm and the .44 Rem. Mag.: http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/ballistics.htm

10mm - 180gr. FMJ
Muzzle 50yds. 100yds.
Velocity 1150 fps 1063 fps. 998 fps.
Ft. lbs. of energy 529 ft./lbs. 452 ft./lbs. 398 ft./lbs.

.44 Rem. Mag. - 275 gr. JHP
Muzzle 50yds. 100yds.
Velocity 1235 fps. 1142 fps. 1070 fps.
Ft. lbs. of energy 931 ft./lbs. 797 ft. lbs. 699 ft./lbs.

[L8 APEX]

I give up I cannot talk guns with techies. You just ignore the input from swat officers and those who use weapons for a living to defend our lives. Based one limited personal experience and the internet. Back to trucks:tu:

[Silver_2000]

I bought my guns before I started internet searches.

I have owned 2 Berettas - Loved them both. I have large hands and I like the way they feel in them. The angle between the grip and the barrel seems more natural to me. I have shot glocks - I never liked them and had a hard time hitting anything with them. Also at the time they were brand new and had quality issues.

At the time every cool cop used a beretta as well.... LOL

In reference to the other points here - I dont carry mine so the snags on clothing is a non issue. I also dont use it in my job so most of the others are non issues. For me its a gun that I am very comfortable with and can shoot naturally - In a self defense role you cant expect much more than that - I have never been enough of a gun nut to get into the FPS and energy issues. If Im in enough danger to need to pull one of my guns the FPS wont matter - Besides I would reach for my 12 guage first in most cases around the house. Once again its a tired old cheap gun and I have NO real idea what kinds of shells are in it - But my hands and arms are very used to it and know what to do... That means a lot ...

If you guys wanna get pissy lets talk about the reliability of an auto VS a revolver - For home defense and EVERY OTHER purpose revolver wins...

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

PUMP 12 GUAGE SHOTGUN with Number 4 Buck -- 2 3/4 Magnum --- forget the handgun:tu:

[Moonshine]

Besides I would reach for my 12 guage first in most cases around the house.There ya' go!!!!!!!! :banana:

The baddest handgun out there aint' squat compared to any centerfire long gun. Handguns are what you carry when don't think you'll need a gun. I own Beretta'a, I own Glocks, I carry a Glock (by choice), they're all good handguns. But if I smell trouble you'll find a rifle or shotgun in my hands every time. :tu:

[Sixpipes]

Just curious what trouble smells like, Brian. Maybe like chicken? Anyway, guess you saw our boy is getting to do some hard-time.

I've got a little Rossi Stagecoach twice barrel that works pretty good, but I haven't shot anyone yet so I guess I'm just speculating. :cool:

[r1eater]

I give up I cannot talk guns with techies. You just ignore the input from swat officers and those who use weapons for a living to defend our lives. Based one limited personal experience and the internet. Back to trucks:tu:


Amen.. :tu:

[my2002lightning]

Terry,

I don't ignore new ideas - I've shot Glock 17/19/21s and they just don't "fit" for me, as well as others.

BTW, "Tactical tupperware" wasn't a slam on Glock or the polymer hand-gun mkt. Just an off-hand remark - take a chill-pill, Bill. :cool:

You're a SWAT officer? Let's see your credentials/ratings.

Ronald


I give up I cannot talk guns with techies. You just ignore the input from swat officers and those who use weapons for a living to defend our lives. Based one limited personal experience and the internet. Back to trucks:tu:

[L8 APEX]

Jeff is a SWAT officer and so was Brian Mr critical, you know what I do. You made a comment about not trusting tupperware to defend life or something to that affect.