Alignment question

[jeff56]

Just went to Firestone to have my alignment checked as it's been a few hundred miles since I had it checked right after my springs were put on.

First of all, I fully regret going to this Firestone. I won't bash on the company, but I was not pleased with the service at this location at all. The last time I had it done was a different story. Then, I hung around outside the bay just cause I was curious about the process. This time, I waited inside. So, I was a bit surprised when I hear and then look and see my truck drive off down the main road in front of this place. Major 5 lane roadway with tons of Saturday traffic. I looked at my watch..truck was gone for 5 minutes. The last time they didn't do a test drive and I can't understand why they would need to do one for an alignment check. :confused:

So....I'm a little pissed and uncertain why they are driving my truck off the lot with no authorization. If it were a Toyota Camry, it'd be a different story, but as it's a souped up truck, it's easy to think they're out for a joyride. What pissed me off, however, is that the service advisor got shitty with me when I questioned him about doing this on merely an alignment check. He stated they have to take it on a test drive to make sure it drives correctly. I responded that it was my understanding that the whole process of ensuring that it drove right *was* the alignment check which was done by computer. I told him I was confused because it was not test drove the last time. He then told me I was wrong, which got me a little bent out of shape as he was basically calling me a liar, not to mention the fact that he has no clue and I was there and know it was not test drove.

So, this was all going a long ways in spoiling my nice Saturday afternoon. Don't get me wrong... I wasn't making a scene or anything, but he apparently didn't like being questioned about the test drive and began using a shitty tone with me, which I responded to.

Now here's the kicker and where I have some questions. I get the sheet back and it's all out of range and they've hand written "Camber not adjustable. Due to Lowered Springs" I explain that I have two sets of cam bolts and it is adjustable and remind the service guy that my chief reason for bringing it in was my observation of negative camber going on. He tells me that it's too far out of range to be adjusted by cam bolts alone and that I probably need some control arms. Now, from my knowledge and reading, I suspect this to be utter BS. Of course, by this time, I don't really want them working on my truck anyway, so I leave with little more argument on this topic.

I would like to know if this is accurate. I've seen tons of people lower they're fronts...some more than me, many with the same Ruslow springs I used and I've never seen the alignment unable to be corrected. Here's my specs and the specified range they have listed. Someone please tell me if this should be adjustable with my cam bolts and how you think I should proceed.

I'm only including camber and caster as that's all that's out of range.

Front Left
Actual_______Specified Range
-2.1________-1.0 to .04_______Camber
7.0_________4.9 to 6.9 _______Caster

Front Right
Actual_____Specified Range
-1.4_______-1.0 to .04_______Camber
7.8_______4.9 to 6.9________Caster

Front
Actual______Specified Range
-0.7________-0.7 to 0.7_____Cross Camber
-0.9________-1.2 to .2_______Cross Caster


Meanwhile, my front end is still out of alignment. Help me out....am I the ******* here?

[Nuhklz]

Seems like a little http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/bs-smilie.gif to me.

Terry lowered my truck with the Roush kit and I immediately went to Goodyear to have it aligned successfully. This is my first successful alignment on a lowered truck.

The steering stop broke off that night and I took it to Texan Ford. They replaced the lower control arm ass'y and did an alignment. I drove it for a week and the alignment wasn't quite right so I took it back. They aligned it again successfully and the truck is now back to normal. This is my second successful alignment.

The tech told me that lowered trucks are harder to align because the specs aren't easy to hit using the machine readings. He said there is a little guesswork invloved and apologized that he missed it the first time. We took it for a test drive before the alignment and after so the tech could get a feel for the truck.

Take it to Texan Ford and ask for Vince Whitaker. He'll take good care of you.

[L8 APEX]

You can look at teh cam bolt and see if it is pushed all the way out or not. It will align damn close to stock if not perfect the way it sets. SOB's need to meet SOCOM's:throw: . I'd make sure he got written for speeding in school zones every day for a month for calling me a liar, wasting my time driving around and racking a vehicle they couldn't align. Just tell me you can't do the job before I drop it off. Send uncle Rocks up there! I will help you with it if you are in the hood sometime, Keller boy! I have an evil new plan brewing in my head:evil

[jeff56]

:D No retaliation here. I'd just as soon not have to see the guy again. I'm a pretty mellow guy and the last thing I want to deal with while off is any confrontation. That's what pissed me off... I ask him a simple question and he gets crappy with me.

Terry, you need to get an alignment rig...see what happens when you let other folks mess with your ride? :D I'll have to check out the cam bolt as you suggested. I'm going back there Wednesday when I'm off and the manager is going to look at my printout and see what can be done.


You can look at teh cam bolt and see if it is pushed all the way out or not. It will align damn close to stock if not perfect the way it sets. SOB's need to meet SOCOM's:throw: . I'd make sure he got written for speeding in school zones every day for a month for calling me a liar, wasting my time driving around and racking a vehicle they couldn't align. Just tell me you can't do the job before I drop it off. Send uncle Rocks up there! I will help you with it if you are in the hood sometime, Keller boy! I have an evil new plan brewing in my head:evil

[99WhiteBeast]

Champion Spring- downtown Ft Worth

Van is the man on front end alignment and lowering. The owner(Mike) is the only one that will drive your vehicle- good people:tu:

[Alpine]

Champion spring is the best I have been to. Van knows his stuff. I would take it there for sure.

[wesman]

Speaking of alignment, when is Trai gonna have another $10 dolla special ? I need 3 or so done :)

--wes

[True Blue Aggie]

Trai is driving his big rig somewhere right now probably. He gave up on the alignment business and bought himself a rig to make a living....

[jeff56]

Champion Spring....never would have thought about that, but that makes good sense. Ya'll are talking about that place off 35 in Fort Worth, right?

That's some good advice....if things don't work out on Wednesday, I'll go by there. Thanks! :tu:

[WA 2 FST]

If the cam bolts are installed correctly (they can be installed backwards...I did this once), then you should be able to get it back within spec. I still get a bit of inside tire wear on the driver's side, but the alignment is in spec. I think its more due to the crappy Ford design of the front LCA's and the infamous "clunk" issue.

You're right ... its way out of alignment now... -2.1 and -1.4 on camber is going to cause major tire wear issues.

[Alpine]

Champion Spring....never would have thought about that, but that makes good sense. Ya'll are talking about that place off 35 in Fort Worth, right?

That's some good advice....if things don't work out on Wednesday, I'll go by there. Thanks! :tu:If you come down I-35 south, take 30 West and exit 199 Henderson (Jacksboro Hwy). Go right on Henderson and it will be on your right about a block or two in a really old red brick building. The place is a little dumpy, but they do awesome work.:D

[Razor]

I too am in need for an alignment...tires as well. But Ft Worth is a haul for me. Any1 know of a place in N Dallas? I live in Denton. I think I'll go with Nittos.?

[Alpine]

I too am in need for an alignment...tires as well. But Ft Worth is a haul for me. Any1 know of a place in N Dallas? I live in Denton. I think I'll go with Nittos.?Go talk to Jamie at Discount tire in Denton on loop 288 by the mall. Tell him a guy name Lawrance that use to drive a red Lightning told you to go down there. He will hook you up. Dont pay more than 190.00 a piece for the 555's.:tu: If you can get them cheaper that would be a great deal.

[Tex Arcana]

If the cam bolts are installed correctly (they can be installed backwards...I did this once), then you should be able to get it back within spec. I still get a bit of inside tire wear on the driver's side, but the alignment is in spec. I think its more due to the crappy Ford design of the front LCA's and the infamous "clunk" issue.

You're right ... its way out of alignment now... -2.1 and -1.4 on camber is going to cause major tire wear issues.

Do you not have the clunk washers? I'm getting the clunk again now, so I think it's time to get a set. Maybe we can do a WWFB day in McKinney or Allen? :d

I've never been able to completely tune out the uneven wear issues, and I had the dealer tweak the alignment to my specs (as close to 0 to -0.5 camber as possible), which helps; but my best method for dealing with this is to swap the tires side-to-side every-other rotation, which puts the wear edge back on the outside, and helps extend life alot.

[Tex Arcana]

:D No retaliation here. I'd just as soon not have to see the guy again. I'm a pretty mellow guy and the last thing I want to deal with while off is any confrontation. That's what pissed me off... I ask him a simple question and he gets crappy with me.

Terry, you need to get an alignment rig...see what happens when you let other folks mess with your ride? :D I'll have to check out the cam bolt as you suggested. I'm going back there Wednesday when I'm off and the manager is going to look at my printout and see what can be done.


Jeff, you really need to call the manager of that store, and tell him how that guy was acting. That is absolutely the WRONG thing to do to ANY customer, and that guy should have his attitude adjusted--preferably with a large pipe wrench. :nono:

You should demand your money back, since they didn't do the job at all, refused to do it, then took your truck out for a joyride to boot. And if the manager doesn't step up to the plate, call corporate, and bitch MIGHTILY. If you scream loud enough, they'll at least bitchslap the manager, and we all know sh*t rolls downhill, so the rest of the shop will catch it as well. And you might get your money back.

Either way, do NOT put up with this sort of treatment: YOU are the guy paying thier salaries, and if the story gets around, they will lose business because of it. They should know better.

[jeff56]

Yep...I'm going back on Wednesday to meet with the manager and then I'll go from there. I'd just as soon them take care of the problem and be done with it. Like I said, I try to keep my stress levels low when I'm off work. If they work things out to my satisfaction, I'll chalk it up to the other guy having a bad day and be done with it. If things don't get worked out, I'll be walking out with a refund or I will be :flaming: and then :throw:

:D

[rickgig]

If the cam bolts are installed correctly (they can be installed backwards...I did this once), then you should be able to get it back within spec. I still get a bit of inside tire wear on the driver's side, but the alignment is in spec. I think its more due to the crappy Ford design of the front LCA's and the infamous "clunk" issue.

You're right ... its way out of alignment now... -2.1 and -1.4 on camber is going to cause major tire wear issues.
WOW... I thought I was the only one with a persistant problem like this. My question to everyone is this... when you get an alignment done... are you suppose to get a print out of the before and after specs?

I've taken mine to the wonderful Ford dealer in Frisco twice and never got anything from them... I took my Stang to Pep Boys once and was impressed by the print out.

One other thing... Wes... do you have the clunk washer? I don't and I am wondering if this has something to do with the wear? I just rotated my tires that have about 4,000 miles on them since I saw the drivers side beginning to wear on the inside.

I'd like to find some one in N. Dallas that does a decent alignment.

[dboat]

But when I got my new Nittos this last summer, I had the same place do an alignment. They were absolutely fantastic. This guy went way out of the way to get it just right. He then explained to me that he threw in a little extra, (I dont remember, camber castor toe, whatever) due to the slope of the roads in Erie. All Ican say is that the truck tracks straight as an arrow. It is so nice when it is done right.
Dana

[jeff56]

I took the truck back to Firestone yesterday and low and behold after speaking with the manager, they put it on the rack and were able to get it all lined up. Granted, I'm at the edge of the specs, but I am within the parameters on everything. Sure would have been nicer had they done it right the first time around.

On another note, I've now got a problem though. :mad: With my negative camber corrected, and my wheel sitting more up and down versus kicked in, my front right tire is rubbing like crazy on my fender flare on even slight dips. It used to do it occasionally on right turns with a dip involved...very manageable....but now I'm getting it while going straight.

Guess I'm going to have to look at changing up something. Does anyone know a part number for the thinner isolator pads that come with the Hotchkiss TVS? I figure I can put a thin isolator pad back in, go to a smaller profile tire or change to a wheel with more backspacing. OK, so I probably won't be buying new rims, but it might be a good way to justify it. :)

[99WhiteBeast]

On another note, I've now got a problem though. :mad: With my negative camber corrected, and my wheel sitting more up and down versus kicked in, my front right tire is rubbing like crazy on my fender flare on even slight dips. It used to do it occasionally on right turns with a dip involved...very manageable....but now I'm getting it while going straight.
:)
Something is not right. What size tire and wheel combo do you have? What drop do you have?

[jeff56]

Oops...yeah, I've got an HD. It has 295x45x20's and I'm dropped somewhere between 2 and 3 inches up front using Ruslow coils with the stock isolator pad removed. That's all I've done...swap the coils, but as you can see, it put me pretty low!

http://www.nhtoc.com/gallery/images/full/800-99-1479.jpg

[L8 APEX]

You can't run isolator pads on Ruslow coils he has them wound and flat cut. He does sell FLAT spacers for them though. OEM and Hotchkis coils are cut to wompass so the isolator makes it flat kind of. You need the fenders rolled by a good body shop.

[jeff56]

Cool...spacers it will have to be then. That or take a big crowbar and wedge it between my tire and fender and go to town! :D Most I'd driven after having it aligned properly was the five minute trip home from Firestone. I drove about 20 miles tonight though, and it is really undriveable. On bumps it does fine, but anything like a dip or swale, I am rubbing on both sides. I can't see that it's doing any damage, but from the sound it can't be good.

If I just had about 1/4" more backspacing. :(

[WA 2 FST]

WOW... I thought I was the only one with a persistant problem like this. My question to everyone is this... when you get an alignment done... are you suppose to get a print out of the before and after specs?

I've taken mine to the wonderful Ford dealer in Frisco twice and never got anything from them... I took my Stang to Pep Boys once and was impressed by the print out.

One other thing... Wes... do you have the clunk washer? I don't and I am wondering if this has something to do with the wear? I just rotated my tires that have about 4,000 miles on them since I saw the drivers side beginning to wear on the inside.

I'd like to find some one in N. Dallas that does a decent alignment.
Here's the place I'm going to get my alignment rechecked and redone. This guy has a great rep with my road-racing Mustang friends, several who have/had Lightnings. I am going to get the clunk washer before I go over there, if possible.

The Ford dealer in McKinney who did mine, did give me a print out. My left front is still at -1.0^ camber and that will give me some wear on the inside of that tire. He said it could be adjusted more, but it will screw with the camber and make it hard to keep it tracking straight? I'm not sure I buy that. Honestly, -1.0^ shouldn't be too bad as far as wear goes, but with the clunk thing going on, it throws off the alignment.

http://www.dallasprecisionimports.com/location.htm

He's in Frisco, right up 289. :) Not far at all.

[rickgig]

Wes...

Thanks... right by my house. Let me know when you head up there. I pick you up and we can do lunch or come back to my place and put the shackles on my son gave me for Christmas!

[Tex Arcana]

Here's the place I'm going to get my alignment rechecked and redone. This guy has a great rep with my road-racing Mustang friends, several who have/had Lightnings. I am going to get the clunk washer before I go over there, if possible.

The Ford dealer in McKinney who did mine, did give me a print out. My left front is still at -1.0^ camber and that will give me some wear on the inside of that tire. He said it could be adjusted more, but it will screw with the camber and make it hard to keep it tracking straight? I'm not sure I buy that. Honestly, -1.0^ shouldn't be too bad as far as wear goes, but with the clunk thing going on, it throws off the alignment.

http://www.dallasprecisionimports.com/location.htm

He's in Frisco, right up 289. :) Not far at all.


Where are you getting your clunk washers? Maybe we can get this guy to cut a deal if a few L's show up on his doorstep on day. :d

I had mine done last at Bankston, and they did it to my specs, between 0 and -0.5deg camber (to minimize tire wear), normal toe and caster--basically, a "neutral" setting that, on a totally flat surface, will let it track straight, but on a road with a crown (side-slope), it'll pull towards the lower part, which I prefer, rather than having it set to compensate for the crown of the road, which may be what you're set for.

[WA 2 FST]

Mine tracks perfectly straight. I have no complaints about the current alignment, except that its at -1.0^ camber, so I will get more inside tire wear. The truck is lowered 2" in the front, so this may just be something I have to live with.

I don't have the clunk washers yet, and honestly, I believe they will need to be welded to the frame in order to make them work. Otherwise, over time they'll slide around as well... no different than having the slotted hole from the factory.

[Tex Arcana]

Mine tracks perfectly straight. I have no complaints about the current alignment, except that its at -1.0^ camber, so I will get more inside tire wear. The truck is lowered 2" in the front, so this may just be something I have to live with.

I don't have the clunk washers yet, and honestly, I believe they will need to be welded to the frame in order to make them work. Otherwise, over time they'll slide around as well... no different than having the slotted hole from the factory.

Is the fitment of the clunk washers *that* bad? If they're machined right, they should take it out, tho I can see your point. Hell, decent tack welds on the edges should do the trick.