So when is a Lightning no longer a Lightning?

[Sixpipes]

Check out this pic of JLP's back-halfed race truck. Which gets us back to the burning question we have discussed before. When does a Lightning lose its identity as a Lightning? :cool:

http://www.nloc.net/gallery/images/full/22575-55-16187.jpg

[StormShadow]

I'm not sure. The way Johnny is doing it though seems like it still qualifies to me. He is taking an already existing truck and transforming it into what you see in different stages. Just like some of our trucks are moded, but to a much lesser extent. The alternative being someone creating a ground up project and slapping a lightning body on it. Just my opinion. I'm also getting tired of the guys on the other boards talking smack everytime he posts pictures of his progress. Seems like jealousy to me.

Now if they are saying this because they don't want to face these guys in a sanctioned race then I understand wanting everything equal.

[Silver_2000]

Well

It all depends on what your definition of a lightning is ...

He has a Lightning VIN so its still a lightning.

But to me a Lightning is a Supercharged, High Horsepower, Street legal, pickup truck. He doesnt meet that requirement anymore.

The Extracab Gen 1 at L fest had a lightning VIN - Is that still a lightning ? Or is it a Chimera (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=chimera) ?

Doug

[98Cobra]

Well I dont consider the X-cab Lightning at L-Fest a real Lightning, VIN or not. The Lightning has never been an X-cab truck, so to me thats kind of a bastardization.

One thing that I am not sure on right now is if it is still a Lightning when you replace the trans and put in that new JDM Navigator motor. http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif

I think for me right now it is still a Lightning as long as the VIN is true, the truck isn't "shaved" of all of its badges, its still in a single cab truck form, and it can still do the job it created for, which is to kick ass.

[dboat]

I voted early on and think you will get a lot of "other" votes.

I somewhat agree with Doug, in that it should be street legal and true to its original form and intent. I dont care if someone has a transbrake, as I dont consider that a huge major mod. The real question is what "mod" puts it over the top? I would say a built engine swap, but does a chip, pulley and filter change matter? I say no. I say a built tranny puts it over the top though, but not mods to the original tranny. Does gutting the interior and just having a racing seat in it, put it over the top? I say yes, the interior should be basically the stock interior, with a/c, stereo, etc..
Do the folks on this board consider Rocks' L still an L? :0fftopic
I dont consider JLP's a "true" Lightning anymore than I consider what John Force races a "true" Mustang.

Thats my opinion..
Dana

[Sixpipes]

Point is, there is a defendable argument for every category. The only thing each has in common is the original VIN#. And I agree Garrett, that blue thing at Lightningfest is not a Lightning. :cool:

http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/507/1P9279692.jpg

[my2002lightning]

For me, this is a tough one b/c we're getting into a gray area here.

I'm thinking it's all a matter of degree and is entirely subjective. Sort of like which color looks best on a L - but, we all know the answer to that question. http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I'm thinking it has to stay as true to stock-trim as possible and no extended cab/L drive-train transplants.http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/bash.gif

Sort of OT, did anyone see where JLP torqued his stock frame by 1.5" by running 9.88s @ 133 - hence the reason for the frame mod? http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/eek2.gif http://www.f150online.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185394&perpage=15&highlight=&pagenumber=1

[Lightning Dude]

Well

It all depends on what your definition of a lightning is ...

He has a Lightning VIN so its still a lightning.

But to me a Lightning is a Supercharged...pickup truck.



So then a Gen 1 is not a Lightning?

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

The states provide the titles, and if it is titled as a lightning --- guess what --- it is a lightning.

By the definitions I have seen here, it could be argued if you change the hood, engine type , change the supercharger type, transmission type, gear ratio, grill, interior, or anything else it is no longer a lightning:rolleyes:

[02BOLT]

IMO, It's all relative. I hate to see an L get cut up like that, but it began life as a Lightning, will be campaigned as a Lightning, will still be recognizable as a Lightning, and will still be powered by a Ford based_supercharged_overhead_cam_V-8 type engine configuration. To me, as much as I hate to see that done, when it comes right down to it, it's still a Lightning. I mean, it's not like it started life as a regular F-150 that they cut up, and stuck Lightning badges on.

Dana, your post is confusing me. In one breath, you say as long as it is "street legal, and true to its original form and intent" it's OK, but in the next...a "built motor swap puts it over the top". Well a "built motor" (like Rock's) is still a Supercharged 5.4L SOHC Ford V-8, that is still "street legal", and very much "true to it's original form and intent". I'm not intending to sound argumentative, just asking for some clarification, I may have simply misinterpreted your post.

[02BOLT]

The states provide the titles, and if it is titled as a lightning --- guess what --- it is a lightning.

By the definitions I have seen here, it could be argued if you change the hood, engine type , change the supercharger type, transmission type, gear ratio, grill, interior, or anything else it is no longer a lightning:rolleyes:

:tu: I could not agree more.

[dboat]

IMO, It's all relative. I hate to see an L get cut up like that, but it began life as a Lightning, will be campaigned as a Lightning, will still be recognizable as a Lightning, and will still be powered by a Ford based_supercharged_overhead_cam_V-8 type engine configuration. To me, as much as I hate to see that done, when it comes right down to it, it's still a Lightning. I mean, it's not like it started life as a regular F-150 that they cut up, and stuck Lightning badges on.

Dana, your post is confusing me. In one breath, you say as long as it is "street legal, and true to its original form and intent" it's OK, but in the next...a "built motor swap puts it over the top". Well a "built motor" (like Rock's) is still a Supercharged 5.4L SOHC Ford V-8, that is still "street legal", and very much "true to it's original form and intent". I'm not intending to sound argumentative, just asking for some clarification, I may have simply misinterpreted your post.

I know my post is a bit quixotic, but it is now an engine swap, and while it is still a 5.4l, sc, v8, I think we have gone farther than just relatively simple mods. We have redone the engine to the point where the new parts clearly outnumber the original or original spec parts. That is why I tried to make the chip/pulley/filter analogy. I think once you get beyond "basic" mods you start to erode the original L status. I realize I am cutting a fine line here that is hard to discern, and the real question would be, "Is it still an L if you do a chip/pulley/filter plus cams plus long tube headers plus throttle body? My answer might be no, only because of the cams and long tube headers. I will probably anger some folks, unintentionally, because my interp is very narrow and conservative. The reason is that once you get beyond simple mods, you have created a racing only vehicle that can be driven on the street and can be made to be street legal. So I guess I am trying to say, that once you get beyond the basic mods that most folks do, then I begin to wonder.
Hope this helps explain my conflicting message.
Dana

[Silver_2000]

The states provide the titles, and if it is titled as a lightning --- guess what --- it is a lightning.

By the definitions I have seen here, it could be argued if you change the hood, engine type , change the supercharger type, transmission type, gear ratio, grill, interior, or anything else it is no longer a lightning:rolleyes:

Yeah but the State doesnt get a vote in our Poll .... And besides show me a title that has the word Lightning on it .. Mine says F150 ...

By that definition anyone with an XLT can slap some badges on it and it becomes a lightning....

Doug

[Sixpipes]

Yeah but the State doesnt get a vote in our Poll .... And besides show me a title that has the word Lightning on it .. Mine says F150 ...

By that definition anyone with an XLT can slap some badges on it and it becomes a lightning....

Doug
True, but the VIN# is specific to the Lightning as opposed to an XLT package. There is no definitive line that can be drawn outside the Vin# because that is absolute.

Do the OKC Gen I guys race Lightnings? Is Terry Hogg's truck a true Lightning? I would say yes to both yet they have had extensive changes made to the drive train and suspension from the original production model. Sounds like Ronald is lobbying for anything other than stock (which was not an option in the poll by the way) is not a Lightning. And while some may think that is rediculous; is it any less so than saying an air filter change or an exhaust change eliminates it from consideration as a real Lightning?

I drew the line at stock body and frame with Ford drive train, but hey, that's just me. A back-halved Lightning to me is a purpose-built race truck, but is it anymore purpose built than Justin's (OKC) truck he is building right now? So if I can't even justify my own opinion, how can I argue against anyone's opinion?

It's interesting to me that other than the Vin# group, most folks seem to be trying to prove that anything beyond the existing mods they currently have on their own truck disqualifies it as a true Lightning. :evil

http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89586

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

When I purchased a used SVT Lightning and wanted the SVT certificate for it, SVT asked that I fax a copy of the title to it ---- no pictures or mod list required --- and they sent me the certificate.

That pretty much says it all!!:cool:

[03LightningRocks]

LMAO..........Dana, don't worry, you won't anger anyone because your arguement makes no sense knana .



Realisticly, if it is titled as a Lightning.....It's a fricking Lightning....Like it or Lump it. That's the way it is.

I didn't answer the poll, because the question is wrong. The question should be.... When does a Lightning become a purpose built race car?


Rocks:tu:


Edit: OK, I answered the poll:D ..........I couldn't resist a poll.

[Silver_2000]

When I purchased a used SVT Lightning and wanted the SVT certificate for it, SVT asked that I fax a copy of the title to it ---- no pictures or mod list required --- and they sent me the certificate.

That pretty much says it all!!:cool:

Many people have just had to provide VIN's - All the Title does is prove ownership and it has the VIN on it ...

I was trying to get past the vin issue to open the discussion up some.

Since VIN is NOT required for Race only trucks then its optional for JL and others bulding trailer queens ... Since the truck will never see a registration or insurance again it doenst need any VIN let alone a lightning VIN

Doug

[03LightningRocks]

Yeah but the State doesnt get a vote in our Poll .... And besides show me a title that has the word Lightning on it .. Mine says F150 ...

By that definition anyone with an XLT can slap some badges on it and it becomes a lightning....

Doug


It's in the VIN...;)

[StormShadow]

.....I couldn't resist a poll.


Must....fight......to....not....make....fun....of. ...this....quote

[Silver_2000]

It's in the VIN...;)
Obviously anything that starts with a LIghtning VIN is a lightning - the question was when in your OPINION does it STOP becoming a lightning

In my opinion anything that is not a 2004 Silver Stock lightning with upgraded stereo is no longer a lightning :d :evil

[03LightningRocks]

Must....fight......to....not....make....fun....of. ...this....quote


Oh crap!!!!!!!!!! Man, I stepped right into that pile of dung...:rll: .

[03LightningRocks]

Obviously anything that starts with a LIghtning VIN is a lightning - the question was when in your OPINION does it STOP becoming a lightning

In my opinion anything that is not a 2004 Silver Stock lightning with upgraded stereo is no longer a lightning :d :evil

My definition changes with each new mod I add...:d .

[Sixpipes]

I didn't answer the poll, because the question is wrong.


If it is my poll, then the question is correct. I just changed my opinion to exclude built motors. :evil

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

Silver_2000Quote:
Originally Posted by 03LightningRocks
It's in the VIN...http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif


Obviously anything that starts with a LIghtning VIN is a lightning - the question was when in your OPINION does it STOP becoming a lightning

In my opinion anything that is not a 2004 Silver Stock lightning with upgraded stereo is no longer a lightning http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrinflip.gif http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/devil.gifYesterday 07:24 PM

The reason I keep making the distinction about title, is that at LightningFest, if it is not a Lightning it should not be able to run, so it must have been titled as a Lightning, else it is basically a pickup race.

Once it is determined if the truck can race, then it is based upon arbitrary rules as to what class it runs in or if it is outlawed completely.:cool:

[03LightningRocks]

The reason I keep making the distinction about title, is that at LightningFest, if it is not a Lightning it should not be able to run, so it must have been titled as a Lightning, else it is basically a pickup race.

Once it is determined if the truck can race, then it is based upon arbitrary rules as to what class it runs in or if it is outlawed completely.:cool:


I agree completely...:beer: . If they aren't careful, you will have Rangers, badged with the Lightning logo, running down the track.

[02BOLT]

OK, so let me hit some of you(in the "mod exclusion club") with a little scenario....

Let's say you have a '99 L with 120,000 miles on the ticker. She has stayed together, but her rings and bearings are worn as well as the valve guides, and her blower is on its last legs. To make matters worse, the tranny is slide shifting its ass off. So, you decide to rebuild the motor, and freshen up the tranny....well you sit down and begin crunching the $$$(you knew this day was coming, so you've been saving up), and you discover that you can rebuild it with H-beam rods(like in the '03-'04 Cobras) and Probe forged pistons for only a couple hundred bucks more. Furthermore, Uncle Rocks has decided to upgrade from his KB to a Whipple, and has offered you a smoking deal on the KB. While the motor is out, you figure it's a good time to go ahead and slap some LT headers on her, with some high-flow cats...so you go for it.

Now, you have Terry install all of this in your L. You have not in any way, shape, or form sacrificed driveability, or hampered her ability to pass state inspections. What you have done is created a combination that will make more power, with much greater reliability and efficiency, while enhancing your "fun factor", and all but eliminating the possibility of slinging a rod(s) out the side of the motor.....

Now, how in the hell do you guys figure that this makes your truck any less of a LIGHTNING?

[Sixpipes]

Rob, you're absolutely right which is why I voted the way I did. I think this whole thing boils down to the racing aspect of the problem. Can a lightly modded Lightning compete with a built motor/transmission/aftermarket blower equipped truck in a heads-up race. Not likely. It is inherently, an unfair race, so we have a tendency to even the score by discounting a more heavily modded truck as "non Lightning". Ideally, there should be seperate racing classifications for Lightnings just like Fun Ford does with their Showdown class Mustangs. The problem is, there are not enough trucks to race under this format so the Lightnings are stuck in a pile with the Foci in the FFW bracket classes instead of racing heads-up . :cool:

[03LightningRocks]

Rob, you're absolutely right which is why I voted the way I did.


:confused:

[PoorSvtman]

All im going to say is this post/poll will never end. Its stupid(no offense everyone) But everyone has there own opinion.

If every car/truck looses its badge,name,etc just because its modded or has a motorswap is pretty lame. If this is the case then about 90% of the classic cars out on the roads arent realy "True" cars any more. They all have chopped tops, chevy motors are big hits in the old ford roadsters, totaly redone/updated suspensions, fuel injection, etc

For example, friends dad has a 32 ford, blown chevy 350. Is it a ford or a chevy? I called it a cherd today, lol.

[Sixpipes]

:confused:

Stock frame/body and Ford drive trane and it qualifies. http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/polls/bar4-r.gif Sixpipes (http://www.talonclub.com/forum/member.php?u=8), True Blue Aggie (http://www.talonclub.com/forum/member.php?u=408)


Don't worry Ron, I still think you own a real Lightning. :evil

[03LightningRocks]

Stock frame/body and Ford drive trane and it qualifies. http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/polls/bar4-r.gif Sixpipes (http://www.talonclub.com/forum/member.php?u=8), True Blue Aggie (http://www.talonclub.com/forum/member.php?u=408)


Don't worry Ron, I still think you own a real Lightning. :evil


Whew...that was a close one. You had me worried for a minute there:eek: .

[Tex Arcana]

This argument has been going on since time immemorial, since the days that someone built a "special edition" vehicle, and someone else wanted one for cheap. I remember the days of the early Mustangs, when the VINs and the documentation was poor: you'd get people showing up with really nice cars (350Hs, 350GTs, 500KRs, etc), but you had no way of knowing if they were the "real" thing or not. Then, when you toss the actual "race" vehicles into the mix (the specially-built ones by Ford or "authorized" Ford racers), the picture gets even more muddled.

So that leaves us wondering: when is a Lightning not a Lightning?? Obviously, if a guy gets an F150 and slaps on all the parts that make it a Lightning, it's not, if only because the VIN doesn't match, which is why FOrd's as careful as they are to make sure they document the process as they have.

I'd say: a Lightning is a Lightning if it started life out as a Lightning, with the proper VIN and all the proper parts. I"m sure someone has a Lightning somewhere that was garaged from day 1, and has next to no miles on it, and is completely stock, which makes it a very valuable Lightning, and totally original. ROck's Lightning is a LIghtning, despite the mods, because it began life as a Lightning.

Even the JLP Lightning is a Lightning, because it began life as a stock Lightning, despite the mods. If they had some foresight at JLP, maybe they saved each and every original part, and when they're done campaigning the truck, they could put it all back together as it was originally. Then again, they could just cut out the VIN, and slap it on a base F150 and call it a Lightning (which, in my opinion, would violate the spirit of the whole thing).

If someone walked up to me, and gave me a choice between a pair of Cobra Daytonas, one restored to absolute mint condition, and one looking like ti just came off the track, with all the rubber, dents, dings, and fluid stains--I'd take the second, simply because the "defects" are what give it its character and its history, and to me makes it more valuable.

So, after all that :ron:s, I'd say as long as it started life out as a Lightning, it's always a Lightning, no matter what gets done--as long as it's never called "original" ever again.

[Mark #2]

I might have the fastest "real" lightning in Talon. Stock long block, stock transmission(no convertor), stock rear gears(3.55).:)

However, I think most of the stock stuff is about to come apart.

[Sixpipes]

I might have the fastest "real" lightning in Talon. Stock long block, stock transmission(no convertor), stock rear gears(3.55).:)

However, I think most of the stock stuff is about to come apart.

So real Lightnings have Kenne Bell blowers? :evil

[Mark #2]

So real Lightnings have Kenne Bell blowers? :evil

Yup, intake and exhaust bolt ons don't count.:D

[Ivanhoe_Farms]

When I get the 572 cu in big block with a c6 and a 9" rearend in my '93 L, it will no longer be an L ---- HMMMMMMMMhttp://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[03LightningRocks]

LOL....I had thought about busting your bubble a few days ago Mark, but figured what the heck, why not let him live in fantasy land.

Now that Dennis has decided to stop the fantasy, I can say that, I...not you...I actually hold the record for the quickest stock truck in Talon with an impressive 11.86 from stock blower and motor.


Rocks:cool:

[Mark #2]

Okay, fastest with 3.55 gears.:tongue: It is all about definition, fastest silver in Talon, fastest with seat out, fastest with slapper bars, fastest with a Roush suspension, fastest with a net worth less than $$$, fastest with 12 pack in you(I think Justin gets this one) :), fastest Porsche x-autocross champion, fastest HVAC owner, What does it really matter as long as we are having fun and living life to the fullest.....:D

No bubbles here, but I really should stop logging on to my neighbors wireless even with his permission.
Mark

[03LightningRocks]

Okay, fastest with 3.55 gears.:tongue:


Man...you where on that one quick:eek: . Sounds good to me Mark......but you still have to get the blower part past Dennis:d .

[Mark #2]

Man...you where on that one quick:eek: . Sounds good to me Mark......but you still have to get the blower part past Dennis:d .

See update above.

[True Blue Aggie]

LOL....I had thought about busting your bubble a few days ago Mark, but figured what the heck, why not let him live in fantasy land.

Now that Dennis has decided to stop the fantasy, I can say that, I...not you...I actually hold the record for the quickest stock truck in Talon with an impressive 11.86 from stock blower and motor.


Rocks:cool:

Not for long old man.....not for long. :rll:
If I don't get past that 11.86, Adam sure as hell is going to.

[03LightningRocks]

Not for long old man.....not for long. :rll:
If I don't get past that 11.86, Adam sure as hell is going to.


I bet it holds for a long time. Adam has a ported blower. I did it with NO porting...let me see you do that one....:d . Young Buck:rll:


6lb lower....2lb upper.....:tu: . Not bad for an "old man" ....;)

[True Blue Aggie]

I have not ported my truck yet. So I guess it is my job to take that record this year....

[03LightningRocks]

I have not ported my truck yet. So I guess it is my job to take that record this year....


I truly hope you do it. I just looked up the slip..it's actually an 11.819...;) :evil

[True Blue Aggie]

We shall have to see about what can be done. This weekend I need to test out the race fuel setup. Worse case I get to see what it will run in the 1/8th.

I take the record as long as Plano AC and Heating (i think that's right) plans on sponsoring my newly rebuilt engine block....

[03LightningRocks]

We shall have to see about what can be done. This weekend I need to test out the race fuel setup. Worse case I get to see what it will run in the 1/8th.

I take the record as long as Plano AC and Heating (i think that's right) plans on sponsoring my newly rebuilt engine block....


LOL...you got the company name correct, but your slightly mis-informed about the sponsorship money...:d . Your on your own as far as the block goes.

I'll give you a tip...it was in the sixty foot which was done with alot of messing around with tire pressures and Metco Trac Link adjustments...:D . The 45 degree temps that day helped too.

[Beaudee]

How about when its totaly totaled!!!!

[Lincolnlightning]

I agree when I purchased my lightning they gave me a certificate with a build number.The last time my truck was on a strip it turned a 12.90.I have changed alot on the truck but I did nothing that would make it slow or make it not be a lightning....

[00Bolt]

your truck wont ever see the street, much less a strip

[TP Derrick D]

I agree when I purchased my lightning they gave me a certificate with a build number.The last time my truck was on a strip it turned a 12.90.I have changed alot on the truck but I did nothing that would make it slow or make it not be a lightning....


That truck looks like Fords version of a 2 door supercharged Blackwood. Without the paint of course.

[Lincolnlightning]

You are wrong about my truck seeing the street.I put over 100 miles on my truck this past weekend.I plan on driving to all the close shows.We were in a show Friday and 1 sunday.I will drive it to the mardi gras nats next weekend.I also staged and did my burnout Sunday.The reason I never put anything on the front end is Being able to repair rock chips.I also plan on putting it back on the strip after I show it for a year or 2...