CHL holder killed in gunfight

[L8 APEX]

I just saw it on the news. There was a shootout in front of a court house in Tyler. An upset husband or boyfriend started shooting his wife/gf, cops whoever got in his way. While he was shooting at cops some CHL holder walking by decieded to go to get his gun out of his car and play guns. He shot at the suspect who was armed with an assault rifle. The suspect turned around and smoked him. The news called him a hero for distracting the man and saving lives of police. I say he is a dumbass for trying a long pistol shot at someone with an assault rifle. So for you CHL cowboys out there remember the handgun is strictly a defensive weapon that is inadequate at best. Rifles and shotguns are offensive weapons. Unless you are standing right behind the aggressor don't bring your pistol to a rifle fight:hammer: . The best solution is to either run and hide or carry an assault rifle in your truck instead:twitch: .

[BC Lightning]

I saw this last week. It was over a custody battle. The man shot and killed his wife, and shot his older son. The man was dressed in body armor carrying an AK-47.

[WA 2 FST]

This happened a few days ago, I believe.

You're right Terry. pistol < assault rifle. The video of the assailant getting shot shows how stupid he was, though. His vehicle gets disabled and he tries to get out. He's "hiding" behind the driver's side door and doesn't realize that there are assault rifles aimed at him from all directions. Boom... down he goes in a matter of seconds.

[StormShadow]

The police said the gunman had several large bruises on his body that they suspect were from the .40cal handgun the good samaritan fired. If not then the handgun would have taken him out.

[L8 APEX]

The news said there were over 100rds fired. Maybe Ronald can post up a media link. Channel 4 didn't say much about the body armor or AK-47. Back to original post if the guy kept a rifle in his car it would have torn through a vest like butter. Even a police shotgun with slugs would do. vests only stop small pistols in general. Another training style that may have helped it 2/1 shooting. Two to the body one to the head, always. If he was wearing armor and the civilian got good hits on him. Then I take back the dumbass comment. It is still stupid to charge a rifle with a pistol but most civilians are not skilled enough to defeat someone with chest protection.

[Wht95Lightning]

This happened Friday. The badguy was wearing body armor with a military flack jacket over that. He was using a cheap Chinese made Norinco Mak-90 which fires the same ammo as an AK, 7.62x39.
The CHL holder, Mark Wilson, lived in a loft apartment overlooking the courthouse square. He saw the badguy shooting and grabbed his gun, ran down to the street to try and stop him. He fired 2 shots striking the badguy in the chest and ducked behind a pickup. When he popped his head up again the badguy shot him in the head. Then walked over and shot him twice more while he was down.

http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2994393

[whitelightning'02]

Yeah, We were in Tyler. We beat the medics and most of the cops there..... You shoulda seen all the dumbazzes trying to see what's going on......:hammer:

[03LightningRocks]

Yeah, We were in Tyler. We beat the medics and most of the cops there..... You shoulda seen all the dumbazzes trying to see what's going on......:hammer:


LOL...so did you get to see what was going on?;)

[L8 APEX]

Okay after reading the related media and police releases I change my ruling back to dumbass. According to local media the CHL guy is a 52yr old local who lived in a loft overlooking the square. He also owned a local gun range named "Lock N' Load". This being known I would have to think he had several guns in his residence 'loft'. Some of which had to be rifle or shotgun. If I leave my house with intent of getting in a gunfight against a SKS, AK, whatever I am definately bringing a rifle. I wonder if he could have sniped him from his loft window? Maybe he just owns a gun range and has no rifles at home. I know we have the luxury of picking the incident apart. But I originally thought he was jsut passing by the incident, not responding from his residence. It is unfortunate but he got his chance to play cops and robbers and lost:( . I am sorry a good guy died but at least he went down blazing. The last thing you want to do is die with bullets in your magazine..

[dboat]

Uh, whats a CHL? :confused:

guess you can tell I am not a huge gun guy.
Dana

[L8 APEX]

Uh, whats a CHL? :confused:

guess you can tell I am not a huge gun guy.
Dana
Concealed handgun License it is a growing option in many states. A program where upstanding citizens can take a class and pay a fee to legally carry a "concealed" handgun. Here is a list of states which honor Texas CHL's:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/reciprocity.htm
There are currently 237 thousand CHLs active They are 90% white, 16% female, 73% male.

[dboat]

Oh, ok... my father has one in Tennessee.. has carried a handgun with him at all times for years now.. I remember when they confiscated one of them as he came back into New York after going over the Canadian border while on vacation..
Dana

[my2002lightning]

This is a tough one to analyze, so far. There are several issues as I see it:

1) We don't know what firearms Mark Wilson had in his residence/vehicle at that moment when the first shots rang out and what he was thinking. We'll never know, really.

2) How a CHL holder (Concealed Handgun License) can legally bring a carbine (AK-47/AR-15/MP-5K etc.) to bear in a situation where "technically" a handgun is all this TX. citizen is allowed to carry. Maybe he knew there was no way he could legally bring down an AR/AK to neutralize the situation. Anyone have further info. on this legal point? Moonshine?

You can't very well conceal a CAR or even an MP-5K. http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif I'm all for bringing more GUN to a shootout. Git 'R Done, essentially.http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

It's interesting that we have all these copy-cats from the movie "HEAT" - and the '97 North Hollywood bank robbers with them covered head-to-toe w/body-armor and toting an AK/Bushmaster/Beretta 9mm with a ton of ammo.

[whitelightning'02]

LOL...so did you get to see what was going on?;)

Nope...not till we got home and turned on the news....:tu:

:beer:

[L8 APEX]

This is a tough one to analyze, so far. There are several issues as I see it:

2) How a CHL holder (Concealed Handgun License) can legally bring a carbine (AK-47/AR-15/MP-5K etc.) to bear in a situation where "technically" a handgun is all this TX. citizen is allowed to carry. Maybe he knew there was no way he could legally bring down an AR/AK to neutralize the situation. Anyone have further info. on this legal point? Moonshine?

You can't very well conceal a CAR or even an MP-5K. http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif I'm all for bringing more GUN to a shootout. Git 'R Done, essentially.http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif


The CHL is only to carry a normally prohibited handgun. In Texas it is legal to carry long guns in public all day long. I could legally tote my rifle down the street all day long. Just like it is sitting in my back window gun rack.

[Moonshine]

2) How a CHL holder (Concealed Handgun License) can legally bring a carbine (AK-47/AR-15/MP-5K etc.) to bear in a situation where "technically" a handgun is all this TX. citizen is allowed to carry. Maybe he knew there was no way he could legally bring down an AR/AK to neutralize the situation. Anyone have further info. on this legal point? Moonshine?



What Terry said. A long gun may be legally carried any time, so long as it is not carried "in a manner calculated to cause alarm". This is Texas, after all. :banana:

[99WhiteBeast]

The CHL is only to carry a normally prohibited handgun. In Texas it is legal to carry long guns in public all day long. I could legally tote my rifle down the street all day long. Just like it is sitting in my back window gun rack.

Just curious- can I carry a rifle in my truck if it is not displayed (behind the seat)?

[Moonshine]

Steve,

Displayed, not displayed, loaded or unloaded, all good.

[StormShadow]

Found this today and remembered this thread.

http://www.filecabi.net/video/akcourthouse.html

[microsuck]

This is a tough one to analyze, so far. There are several issues as I see it:

1) We don't know what firearms Mark Wilson had in his residence/vehicle at that moment when the first shots rang out and what he was thinking. We'll never know, really.

2) How a CHL holder (Concealed Handgun License) can legally bring a carbine (AK-47/AR-15/MP-5K etc.) to bear in a situation where "technically" a handgun is all this TX. citizen is allowed to carry. Maybe he knew there was no way he could legally bring down an AR/AK to neutralize the situation. Anyone have further info. on this legal point? Moonshine?

You can't very well conceal a CAR or even an MP-5K. http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif I'm all for bringing more GUN to a shootout. Git 'R Done, essentially.http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

It's interesting that we have all these copy-cats from the movie "HEAT" - and the '97 North Hollywood bank robbers with them covered head-to-toe w/body-armor and toting an AK/Bushmaster/Beretta 9mm with a ton of ammo.

You dont ned any kind of a permit to carry a long gun (shotgun/rifle). You can walk down the street with your AR-15 and not be breaking the law. What they CAN get you for is "Causing public distress". The remedy to that is to just put it in a bag, or keep it out of sight. As strange as it sounds.... Its not illegal to walk down the street with a AR-15 under your coat.

EDIT: Sorry, didnt notice that was already answered.

[Silver_2000]

Ok

Innocent question

Im Johnny good samaritan ... I show up at an event where cops are getting shot at... Arent my chances if being shot by the cops as a bad guy pretty good once I start throwing lead ?

Doug

[Tex Arcana]

I wonder if he could have sniped him from his loft window?
qft, a lesson to be learned by the rest of us.

[microsuck]

that question has been asked lately on some of my gun owner forums. To spare you the reading, the general concensus is to give 100% compliance with a verbal orders from law enforcement officers. IE, put your gun down when told. Cops are more likely to err on the side of caution and tend to be less "lead-happy" by department policy. Most cops wont shoot ya till you point your weapon at them. Just hope you dont "fit the profile" of a criminal. My personal advice....... Just make sure you are behind adequete cover before you let the led fly. Incoming shots are always twice as accurate as outgoing ones (per murphys law).

[Tex Arcana]

This is a tough one to analyze, so far. There are several issues as I see it:

1) We don't know what firearms Mark Wilson had in his residence/vehicle at that moment when the first shots rang out and what he was thinking. We'll never know, really.

2) How a CHL holder (Concealed Handgun License) can legally bring a carbine (AK-47/AR-15/MP-5K etc.) to bear in a situation where "technically" a handgun is all this TX. citizen is allowed to carry. Maybe he knew there was no way he could legally bring down an AR/AK to neutralize the situation. Anyone have further info. on this legal point? Moonshine?

You can't very well conceal a CAR or even an MP-5K. http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif I'm all for bringing more GUN to a shootout. Git 'R Done, essentially.http://www.talonclub.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

It's interesting that we have all these copy-cats from the movie "HEAT" - and the '97 North Hollywood bank robbers with them covered head-to-toe w/body-armor and toting an AK/Bushmaster/Beretta 9mm with a ton of ammo.


AFAIK, a Texas citizen can carry a rifle or a shotgun openly in public, but i could be wrong.

And as Terry said earlier, if his loft overlooks the square; he couldn've sniped the mofo from a window, and still be "legal".

[Tex Arcana]

The CHL is only to carry a normally prohibited handgun. In Texas it is legal to carry long guns in public all day long. I could legally tote my rifle down the street all day long. Just like it is sitting in my back window gun rack.

There are areas of West Dallas where you can see guys walking down the street carrying loaded shotguns...

[Tex Arcana]

gawl-durned thread resurrectors... :hammer:

[Tex Arcana]

Ok

Innocent question

Im Johnny good samaritan ... I show up at an event where cops are getting shot at... Arent my chances if being shot by the cops as a bad guy pretty good once I start throwing lead ?

Doug
well, you'd hope that, if the cops see bad-guy's head go "splat", that they'd THANK ya for it... ;)

[StormShadow]

gawl-durned thread resurrectors... :hammer:

Well hell, you posted on it 5 times since I resurrected it about an hour and a half ago jack ass! Freakin post whores......... :rll:

[Tex Arcana]

Well hell, you posted on it 5 times since I resurrected it about an hour and a half ago jack ass! Freakin post whores......... :rll:
nah, just a dummy who didn't read the dates..

[Mark #2]

There are areas of West Dallas where you can see guys walking down the street carrying loaded shotguns...

Go to southern IL, this is the norm, the only thing left there is hunt clubs, I tried to purchase land there but got out bid by the government.

http://www.adventureillinois.com/hunting.htm

Another reason I keep the K5, the L doesn't get any where near the respect as the K5 does. :)

[my2002lightning]

I hope Dick Cheney isn't one of them. :D



There are areas of West Dallas where you can see guys walking down the street carrying loaded shotguns...

[wesman]

Found this today and remembered this thread.

http://www.filecabi.net/video/akcourthouse.html

Great find Adam.

He popped that dude in the back of the head, damn good shot.:throw:

--wes

[Logan]

Good find... :)