9.5lbs to 13.5lbs

[QIK KAT]

I can not believe i did'nt do this about 3yrs. ago, i know this is old news to most of you, but i just bolted on a 4# lower with no tune, and got a full 4#'s out of it.Thank you bclightning:banana:

[PoorSvtman]

Id get a tune on there soon anyways... atleast a chip....

[QIK KAT]

It's got a 4yr. old superchip in it. but i know for sure in mid may i'm takin it down to terry with about 2000 dollers, and let him have at it.:D

[wesman]

Is the chip burned for the 4lb ? If not you may be going to Terry with a lot more money a lot sooner.

--wes

[PoorSvtman]

Is the chip burned for the 4lb ? If not you may be going to Terry with a lot more money a lot sooner.

--wes


Id still have him atleast reburn the chip for the 4lb if its not.. Better safe than sorry

[QIK KAT]

I have no idea what tune it as on it. but all i know is i'm getting no detination @ wot. but just to be safe i'll probably dyno & tune it this week.

[roddz170]

I may be mistaken, but I think you can't always hear detonation unless it's bad, and any is not good.

[rickgig]

I am running a 2# with the same chip I got when I bought the truck new... I am going to go see Terry for a reburn for it and later step up to a 4# or better.

All you have to do is read the boards and you will see how many have trashed their motors with too much pulley and not enough tuning.

My son has a 03 H/D and he's talking to JLP. Johnny is recommending a 6# on a stock block with a very conservative tune and AF ratio. Says if you do that right you will have a quick and reliable truck.

GET A TUNE...

[QIK KAT]

I know, i know, i know im going down their hopefully mon. or tues.:cool:

[SpeedyBolt]

[QUOTE=rickgigMy son has a 03 H/D and he's talking to JLP. Johnny is recommending a 6# on a stock block with a very conservative tune and AF ratio. Says if you do that right you will have a quick and reliable truck.

GET A TUNE...[/QUOTE]

I don't think JLP know's the concept of conservitave!

[WA 2 FST]

6# on a HD truck is like a 4# on an L. The HD truck comes with a larger blower pulley than our L's do.

And yes, there is such a thing as inaudible detonation. It will wipe out the pistons, etc just like the "death rattle" that you can hear. :(

[bluesvt]

so even with a good tune is a 6# too much for a daily driver??? :confused:

[bluesvt]

also from everyone i talk to they say the "cage" is a waste. is this also true?

[BC Lightning]

Ive got a 6# lower on mine, no problems so far

[bluesvt]

how many miles?

[BC Lightning]

its been on for about two weeks, thats also with some passes at the track and normal driving (80+ on the highway :burnout: )

[StormShadow]

A 6lb lower with a safe tune is fine as long as you dont do WOT all the time on the highway and drive crazy like BObbyWade!

[WA 2 FST]

so even with a good tune is a 6# too much for a daily driver??? :confused:

Lots of debate on this. My feeling is that the stock Eaton is being overspun significantly at this point, creating too much heat which negates a lot of the benefit of more airflow. The 6#er will make more low, mid-range TQ, but usually the peak HP (while it may also be a bit higher than say a 4# setup) will be lower in the rev-range. Definitely diminishing returns as you overspin the blower.

The best thing is to get a more efficient blower. Nothing wrong with 14-15psi on a stock block...but a superheated air charge into the combustion chamber doesn't do any good.

That being said, a really safe tune will allow you to get by with a 6# lower pulley with a stock Eaton.

[SpeedyBolt]

Lots of debate on this. My feeling is that the stock Eaton is being overspun significantly at this point, creating too much heat which negates a lot of the benefit of more airflow. The 6#er will make more low, mid-range TQ, but usually the peak HP (while it may also be a bit higher than say a 4# setup) will be lower in the rev-range. Definitely diminishing returns as you overspin the blower.

The best thing is to get a more efficient blower. Nothing wrong with 14-15psi on a stock block...but a superheated air charge into the combustion chamber doesn't do any good.

That being said, a really safe tune will allow you to get by with a 6# lower pulley with a stock Eaton.

Wes, what are your opinions on the ported blower thing? Do you think that porting the blower effectively makes the stock eaton more efficent in the heat department? I am going to be running a 6# lower with my ported blower, so I wonder if the boost temprature will still be too high.

[BC Lightning]

wes will have more to say about it because he knows pretty much everything about cars and etc.


Ported blowers run cooler so the charge that is given is to a safer degree, not as much as an aftermarket blower such as kenne bell or whipple, but it does take some of the stress away and make it safer, basically what long tubes do

They also create more boost 1-2 from what Ive heard

[03LightningRocks]

Is the chip burned for the 4lb ? If not you may be going to Terry with a lot more money a lot sooner.

--wes

:bows ...........especially with a program that is from the old days. Terry can get into details if he wants, but I will tell you that some of the jury rigged ways they used to fool the MAF where downright dangerous.

Rocks:tu:

[PoorSvtman]

so even with a good tune is a 6# too much for a daily driver??? :confused:

I drove my L with a 6lb lower(on bcL truck now) for little over a year or so... Dunno about miles but i drive my L down to austin/fthood few weekends each month.. Drive out to dallas/addison a few nights a week etc....


As for the 4lb or 6lb debate i will say i could tell a difference. The 4lb seemed to still be a bit peppy after it was good and hot on the long drive i just took to austin this past weekend.


With the 6lb it is spinning pretty fast and it will heat up and i can tell the difference. But i went back to a 6lb ring today.

[99WhiteBeast]

I think Jeff has run a 6lber for over 30k with no issues. But then again he likes living on the edge:rolleyes:










This is not an endorsement to run a 6lb and Jeff will accept all responsibilty for such actions

[Tex Arcana]

The HD truck comes with a larger blower pulley than our L's do.


Isn't that the otehr way around?? Larger pulley = more boost?? :confused:

fake edit: LOWER pulley? :confused:2

[WA 2 FST]

Isn't that the otehr way around?? Larger pulley = more boost?? :confused:

fake edit: LOWER pulley? :confused:2

It comes with a larger _blower_ pulley (meaning the upper pulley). The crank (lower) pulley is the same size as the L from what I understand. So putting a 6# lower pulley on an HD truck is about = to a 4# lower on an L.

[wesman]

It works the opposite up top on the blower pulleys. Bigger doesn't always equal better :)

Smaller blower pulley = more boost
Larger lower pulley =more boost.

--wes


Isn't that the otehr way around?? Larger pulley = more boost?? :confused:

fake edit: LOWER pulley? :confused:2

[Tex Arcana]

It comes with a larger _blower_ pulley (meaning the upper pulley). The crank (lower) pulley is the same size as the L from what I understand. So putting a 6# lower pulley on an HD truck is about = to a 4# lower on an L.
egh, missed that... sorry. :o

[True Blue Aggie]

Proud owner of the 6# and a Predator tune.....still no "boom". I've put about 8,000 on the truck since I had Terry install the 6#. I worked on the tune with RWTD (when he answered his e-mails :Bullshit ) and had the A/F at a consistent 12.0/0/0.

Just recently tuned the A/F back down to the right 11.5/1 ratio. I have not once hear a ping in my motor. The only thing I'm worried about is how the driveline is taking the additional horsepower and torque. But I am trying to figure out ways to take care of that.....

[SpeedyBolt]

The only thing I'm worried about is how the driveline is taking the additional horsepower and torque......

I've been wondering about that too. How much power do the stock tranny's hold up to. I know the rearends are really strong and the weakness in the drivetrain is the tranny. Now with the addition of a ported blower and a few other things, I wonder what's going to let go first. The tranny or the bottom end!

[L8 APEX]

I like 4 # pulleys on L's and 6# on Harleys. Any boost mods require more cautious driving. Lightnings generally vent in cold weather and over 100mph. Nick's tune was a generic R9 file which is a very aggressive file that Superchips sold to modem dealers since 1999 and never revised. It leans out the stock fuel tables and runs a LOT of timing and trans pressure.

[PoorSvtman]

i have over 103k miles on stock tranny with a factory tech valve body still shifts nice and firm.

[WA 2 FST]

I like 4 # pulleys on L's and 6# on Harleys. Any boost mods require more cautious driving. Lightnings generally vent in cold weather and over 100mph.

And THAT is why I have stuck with the 4#er to this point. I don't want to have to think, "is it cold today?", or, "oops, I'm doing a top-end pull from 70-120, I better let off soon".

I don't drive it hard 99% of the time, but when I need to hammer it down I do and I don't want to be worrying about various conditions. I just want to go.

In a controlled environment like a dragstrip you can always get away with more than you can in a day-to-day commute on the street.

That being said, it'd sure be nice to get 450rwhp/525+rwtq and have it live (trans and block) under just about _any_ conditions (I know long WOT adventures in OD is not recommended).

[True Blue Aggie]

So does it even matter where your A/F is at, if you are running a large amount of boost on a cold day? My thoughts (or knowledge) on the matter was that the block was safe from detonation, as long as you fed it the right amount of fuel.

This does not take into account the failure of rods, pistons, etc...but that was my knowledge on the A/F mix on these trucks.

[PoorSvtman]

And THAT is why I have stuck with the 4#er to this point. I don't want to have to think, "is it cold today?", or, "oops, I'm doing a top-end pull from 70-120, I better let off soon".

In a controlled environment like a dragstrip you can always get away with more than you can in a day-to-day commute on the street.




If your going to do a top end pull from 70-120 you can do it the same with a 6lber as a 4lber... Just dont give it some much gas and dont let the boost get up... I tested that theory last week when i had the 4lb ring on and the 6 the past few days... The 6 dose jump up faster but just regulate it with gas and keep the boost at the 4lber level

[Silver_2000]

If it was me I would sooner drive a L with a 4# pulley and NO chip than an unkinwn chip or one like what Terry described...

Of course I think that everyone should run a 0# pulley like me....

[Tex Arcana]

If it was me I would sooner drive a L with a 4# pulley and NO chip than an unkinwn chip or one like what Terry described...

Of course I think that everyone should run a 0# pulley like me....

oh, yeah, and how long is *THAT* gonna last?? :d

[L8 APEX]

There is a totally different tune needed for top end running as Stan and I have discovered. We both had JDM built engines, Fluidyne heat exchangers and only 4# pulleys. Any more boost and the Xchanger cannot dump the heat fast enough and your IC boils over and you get lots of detonation. As for the tune differences I will try to keep it simple. There is part throttle and there is WOT. The computer is commanding the most fuel and least timing under WOT. Once you lift a little pedal when cruising 120mph like PoorSVTman described you go into part throttle fuel tables which have considerably more timing and a leaner A/F commanded. For open road racing you have to edit the base fuel table and command a richer A/F at part throttle readings. JDM says he runs 2 degrees less timing than STOCK on Stans truck. You can safely do high speeds but you need to right mechanical setup and tune. 98% of the trucks and tunes I have seen are not intended for the 120 plus arena.

[rickgig]

I am hoping his point is that this would be equally dumb and that neither are acceptable but a 4#'er with no chip is marginally better than one with a bad tune.

[L8 APEX]

In the 99-01 trucks I would have no prob with a 4# and no tune. But Ford has consistently leaned out the stock tunes. There are 03-04's in the club that dynoed stock A/F's of 12.5 or higher. I saw a few at a dyno session with 4# only on 03's that were at 12.7-13.0 untuned.

[Silver_2000]

I am hoping his point is that this would be equally dumb and that neither are acceptable but a 4#'er with no chip is marginally better than one with a bad tune.

My point exactly -

We have members here who have done exactly that. WOT marathons excluded the stock program has less timing than an older unknown tune.

The predator is is perfect example - I would rather run no chip with ANY boost # than any boost # with any predator tune...

Just my $0.02 - But since my truck is bone stock and since Tex disagrees then you can choose to ignore.... :banana:

[SpeedyBolt]

I think I need to step back down to a 4#'r untill I can get some Long tubes!

Stupid question; Do single blade T/B's add boost? I figured that since the blower is breathing better in might.

[BC Lightning]

The TB only adds hp when used with other mods, dont expect too much out of a TB

[SpeedyBolt]

The TB only adds hp when used with other mods, dont expect too much out of a TB

I'm really not expecting too much I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be adding even MORE boost!

[BC Lightning]

nope, no boost, maybe see 5hp at the most

[Tex Arcana]

My point exactly -

We have members here who have done exactly that. WOT marathons excluded the stock program has less timing than an older unknown tune.

The predator is is perfect example - I would rather run no chip with ANY boost # than any boost # with any predator tune...

Just my $0.02 - But since my truck is bone stock and since Tex disagrees then you can choose to ignore.... :banana:


Hm.. lot of informatin to wrap my feeble mind around... but it occurs to me that it's silly that the manufacturer doesn't take into account all modes of operation...

As for you, Doug: I'm taking bets on when you'll cave in and start modding. And, NO, I am NOT telling you what the over/under is!! :banana:

[00Bolt]

6lb is fine with tune, jeff has had 6lb for as long as iv known him.....

[Silver_2000]

but it occurs to me that it's silly that the manufacturer doesn't take into account all modes of operation...

The manufacturer did. Have you ever heard of rods goijng on a stock motor with stock pulleys and stock tune ? Even after running 140 for as long as you want ?

No - That doesnt happen - Never heard of it


As for you, Doug: I'm taking bets on when you'll cave in and start modding. And, NO, I am NOT telling you what the over/under is!! :banana:

I have Billet TB and Full exhaust sitting collecting dust. Also have line on free SCT flasher...

Havent installed any of it.. Does that change the over under ?

[QIK KAT]

Jes, what the hell did i start here:eek: Anyway Terry fixed me up, if anybody cares.

[Tex Arcana]

The manufacturer did. Have you ever heard of rods goijng on a stock motor with stock pulleys and stock tune ? Even after running 140 for as long as you want ?

No - That doesnt happen - Never heard of it

I stand corrected: I reread things, and it turns out I misinterpreted Terry's Dissertation for Dummies on the matter. However, that brings me to my point again: why would tuners tune a chip to exclude certain conditions? Personally, I would damned wll insist on a tune that could cover pretty much anything I could throw at it.




I have Billet TB and Full exhaust sitting collecting dust. Also have line on free SCT flasher...

Havent installed any of it.. Does that change the over under ?

Nah... the vein you used to feed your power addiction hasn't goen down yet.. it's just a matter of time... :evil:

[bluesvt]

boss had an HD truck, lightning blower pulley and 6lb lower. put 32k miles on it and he beat the living sh!t out of that truck and never a single problem. :tu:

[BLACKSUNSHINE]

so even with a good tune is a 6# too much for a daily driver??? :confused:

They say 6 is pushing it... but ive been running a 6lb for a daily driver for about 30K miles and a pretuned diablo predator....No problems, And i drive it like i stole it everyday. But MPG sucks a$$

[BC Lightning]

I just switched to a 2.8 upper to go with my 6# lower pulley :nana2