Wbc

[Mark #2]

I finally “finished” the WBC install, lots of wiring.

I have a few wires left for some of the options, especially if I get a SCT 3.0.

It is cool, a dyno run leaving every stop light.

I recommend this product.

[liteitup]

any helpful hints? mine has been sitting in the garage for awhile

[Mark #2]

any helpful hints? mine has been sitting in the garage for awhile
http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104749&highlight=WBC

Bruce has posted the best info.

[Tex Arcana]

WTF is WBC? :confused:

[ThunderBolt]

Wideband commander.

Hey Liteitup, Let me know if you decide not to install it.
You think you might be interested in a clean set of 01/02 chromies?
Shoot me a PM if you are interested. Maybe we can work out a deal.

[Tex Arcana]

Okay, so explain what a "windeband commander" does, and how it helps our engines. :p

THose are nice rims.. what does it cost to get a set done like that?

[BC Lightning]

A wide band commander is an air fuel guage that gives a digital read out, or has a orange pointer that shows what air fuel reading your getting

AEM has the digital read out and LED lights, Dynojet makes the one with a pointer

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/aemgauge.htm


how will it help? shows if your going kaboom or not :D

[Tex Arcana]

A wide band commander is an air fuel guage that gives a digital read out, or has a orange pointer that shows what air fuel reading your getting

AEM has the digital read out and LED lights, Dynojet makes the one with a pointer

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/aemgauge.htm


how will it help? shows if your going kaboom or not :D

So all it does it show you, on a gauge, an accurate reading of the fuel-air ratio you're running? And doens't somehow feed that back into the ECU? :confused: That's almost as useless as tits on a boar hog... :rolleyes:

And how much does it cost to chrome a set of those wheels?

[BC Lightning]

My chromed 03-04 wheels were $800

I'm not understanding your logic of the WBC being useless, if it gives you and accurate air fuel reading? If your running too lean then it tells you to get out of WOT. Guess it is useless :rolleyes: So if Mark has an XCal2 and see on his WBC that he is running to rich or lean, he can feed a new tune through the PCM

I'm not sure about the AEM, but the dynojet does have data logging.

Mark, which guage did you install, AEM or Dynojet?

[Silver_2000]

I'm not understanding your logic of the WBC being useless,
THats just classic Tex - we may need a special tex smiley like :ron:

Doug

[Tex Arcana]

My chromed 03-04 wheels were $800

I'm not understanding your logic of the WBC being useless, if it gives you and accurate air fuel reading? If your running too lean then it tells you to get out of WOT. Guess it is useless :rolleyes: So if Mark has an XCal2 and see on his WBC that he is running to rich or lean, he can feed a new tune through the PCM

I'm not sure about the AEM, but the dynojet does have data logging.

Mark, which guage did you install, AEM or Dynojet?


Was that the cost to chrome, or to buy outright?

Note I said "ALMOST"... yeah, it tells you to get out of WOT--if you see it. If you're in the middle of maneuvering, or your attention is on controlling the vehicle or anything else, unless it's a hugely bright light within your narrowed field-of vision, you're not going to notice it 'til it's too late. I'd rather the damn thing somehow be communicating with the ECU, or some device doing the communicating with the ECU, to just richen the mix to prevent problem, than relying on fallible human reactions to prevent a problem that can be so instantaneous that the damage is done by the time you can react. :nono:

Data do'nt do squat, 'less'n you can act on it. ;-)

[Tex Arcana]

THats just classic Tex - we may need a special tex smiley like :ron:

Doug

Well, have you ever seen useful tits on a boar hog?? :tongue:

[Silver_2000]

Data do'nt do squat, 'less'n you can act on it. ;-)

With the SCT2 youcan act on it - THats the point.

Plus With someone like Mark - who is making changes pretty often - he just wants data -any data is better than none and since we have proven he can act on it its good data. Plus Mark isnt the type to make a change and go run down the 1320 without checkingout the AF data first ...

As far as your chrome question - Tire rack sells OEM chromed rims. Eventually I hope to get some for my truck.

Doug

[Mark #2]

Like others have stated it's just for data logging, in my world data is power. I like power.:D

Plus it's cool.

[Mark #2]

My chromed 03-04 wheels were $800

I'm not understanding your logic of the WBC being useless, if it gives you and accurate air fuel reading? If your running too lean then it tells you to get out of WOT. Guess it is useless :rolleyes: So if Mark has an XCal2 and see on his WBC that he is running to rich or lean, he can feed a new tune through the PCM

I'm not sure about the AEM, but the dynojet does have data logging.

Mark, which guage did you install, AEM or Dynojet?

Dynojet for data logging.

[SILVER2000SVT]

This thing is pretty cool. In addition to the A/F it also monitors 2 other analog inputs. It can datalog these all together and ouput that information, but another function is that it has a indicator light that you can program to turn on based on a combination of values from the A/F and the other analog inputs to give you a warning is something is wrong. I.E. TPS over 50% and RPM over 3000 and A/F over 12:1 it will flash the warning light at you to tell you to shut it down.

For those two extra analog inputs most people are monitoring other engine data like the MAF and TPS, but these are also monitored by the ECM and can be dataloged with the SCT or in my case the Predator. If you wanted to expand your monitoring data, you could install other sensors that the ECM doesn't monitor such as boost pressure, and combine that data with the data you get from the SCT to have an even greater compliment of operational data.

Having and tuning a vehicle with a wide band A/F installed in the vehicle will be better than the dyno tune because your motor in under actual load unlike the simulated load of the dyno. You can also get a full sweep data from 0mph that includes shifts and aren't limited to only a 3rd gear run as on the dyno. As most of us are aware of the operation of the truck can change as the temperature changes. Some tuners even have cold weather and hot weather tunes. Having the ability to monitor the A/F all the time gives a nice safety aspect because now you know what is happening everytime you drive no matter what the conditions are outside. If you could collect enough data throughout the changing seasons you could have just one tune written that could compensate for all temperatures and give you peak performance with a good consistant safety margin. With dyno tuning it's kind of hard to get a perfect all weather tune unless you go to the dyno with every 10-20degree change to have the program tweeked a little to make sure in can compensate for the changes. I'm certainly not saying theres anything wrong with dyno tuning, because you need the dyno to help optimize the horsepower and for bragging rights, I'm just saying that the possibilities for tuning have dramatically increased with the combined use of wide band A/F and conventional datalogging. If they just had a good way to measure hp without going to the dyno we would be set...I don't think the Escort G-Tech meter is good enough, but if it was or somebody made one that worked well you would never have to visit the dyno.

I see a lot of people like the digital output of the AEM over the WBC, but I personally like the mechanical type display of a gage with a needle. One because it matches my other Autometer gauges, and two because I think it easier to see with a quick glance of the eye while driving.

[ThunderBolt]

Cool deal. I'm ordering mine from Mark today.

[Mark #2]

This thing is pretty cool. In addition to the A/F it also monitors 2 other analog inputs. It can datalog these all together and ouput that information, but another function is that it has a indicator light that you can program to turn on based on a combination of values from the A/F and the other analog inputs to give you a warning is something is wrong. I.E. TPS over 50% and RPM over 3000 and A/F over 12:1 it will flash the warning light at you to tell you to shut it down.

For those two extra analog inputs most people are monitoring other engine data like the MAF and TPS, but these are also monitored by the ECM and can be dataloged with the SCT or in my case the Predator. If you wanted to expand your monitoring data, you could install other sensors that the ECM doesn't monitor such as boost pressure, and combine that data with the data you get from the SCT to have an even greater compliment of operational data.

Having and tuning a vehicle with a wide band A/F installed in the vehicle will be better than the dyno tune because your motor in under actual load unlike the simulated load of the dyno. You can also get a full sweep data from 0mph that includes shifts and aren't limited to only a 3rd gear run as on the dyno. As most of us are aware of the operation of the truck can change as the temperature changes. Some tuners even have cold weather and hot weather tunes. Having the ability to monitor the A/F all the time gives a nice safety aspect because now you know what is happening everytime you drive no matter what the conditions are outside. If you could collect enough data throughout the changing seasons you could have just one tune written that could compensate for all temperatures and give you peak performance with a good consistant safety margin. With dyno tuning it's kind of hard to get a perfect all weather tune unless you go to the dyno with every 10-20degree change to have the program tweeked a little to make sure in can compensate for the changes. I'm certainly not saying theres anything wrong with dyno tuning, I'm just saying that the possibilities have dramatically increased with the combined use of wide band A/F and conventional datalogging.

I see a lot of people like the digital output of the AEM over the WBC, but I personally like the mechanical type display of a gage with a needle. One because it matches my other Autometer gauges, and two because I think it easier to see with a quick glance of the eye while driving.

Nice post, I agree, I am hooked into MAF and TPS now but am putting a switch in to change between Boost pressure and one of the others.
Mark

[SILVER2000SVT]

Nice post, I agree, I am hooked into MAF and TPS now but am putting a switch in to change between Boost pressure and one of the others.
Mark

I was trying to think of what some other good data to monitor would be that you don't get from the ECM. Boost pressure is obviously a good one. Let me think:

Ambient air pressure? (to determine how much air density throws off the MAF reading)
Humidy? (I think this is a significant factor in performance but it would be nice to know some solid data in real world application)
^^These two aren't great examples because they remain fairly constant, I was just trying to brainstorm.

Exhaust gas temerature
Cylinder head temperature (is there already a sensor for this? The combination of this with the EGT can give you an indication of pre-detonation before it gets bad enough to be audible)
Fuel pressure (but if this is off you have a problem, it shouldn't vary, a gauge should be good enough without monitoring)

[BC Lightning]

Was that the cost to chrome, or to buy outright?

My wheels are Aggie Mom's core wheels before the Boyd Smoothies, Terry had them sent off to be chromed

[dboat]

I am going to have a set of 02's for sale shortly... interested?

[Tex Arcana]

With the SCT2 youcan act on it - THats the point.

Plus With someone like Mark - who is making changes pretty often - he just wants data -any data is better than none and since we have proven he can act on it its good data. Plus Mark isnt the type to make a change and go run down the 1320 without checkingout the AF data first ...

As far as your chrome question - Tire rack sells OEM chromed rims. Eventually I hope to get some for my truck.

Doug

Sooo.. does the SCT2 interact with the ECU to control things?? If so, question answered. :tu:

I had this discussion with PoorSVTMan tonite, and that's my point: it's good for maybe getting info during a dyno, but unless it can be either dropped into a spreadsheet for graphing/analysis, it's just not going to do much, unless the gauge has a big flashy red light to tell you it's about to blow up. Mike said a gauge pod on the pillar works, but the pillars dissapear when I'm racing, so that wouldn't do me any good, I'd have to have a big red warning light to tell me to get out of it, or have the data run back into the computer to control the motor.

I'm thinking the same thing with the rims, it's just growing on me like a fungus, and it's all Tom's fault. :tongue:

[Tex Arcana]

I am going to have a set of 02's for sale shortly... interested?

Let me know when you do, and if I can afford them (read: the wife lets me fork over the $$$), I'll do it.

[Tex Arcana]

Plus it's BLING-BLING!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/texarcana/SMiles/spinnaz.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/texarcana/SMiles/BRINGBRING1.jpg

[Tex Arcana]

This thing is pretty cool. In addition to the A/F it also monitors 2 other analog inputs. It can datalog these all together and ouput that information, but another function is that it has a indicator light that you can program to turn on based on a combination of values from the A/F and the other analog inputs to give you a warning is something is wrong. I.E. TPS over 50% and RPM over 3000 and A/F over 12:1 it will flash the warning light at you to tell you to shut it down.

For those two extra analog inputs most people are monitoring other engine data like the MAF and TPS, but these are also monitored by the ECM and can be dataloged with the SCT or in my case the Predator. If you wanted to expand your monitoring data, you could install other sensors that the ECM doesn't monitor such as boost pressure, and combine that data with the data you get from the SCT to have an even greater compliment of operational data.

Having and tuning a vehicle with a wide band A/F installed in the vehicle will be better than the dyno tune because your motor in under actual load unlike the simulated load of the dyno. You can also get a full sweep data from 0mph that includes shifts and aren't limited to only a 3rd gear run as on the dyno. As most of us are aware of the operation of the truck can change as the temperature changes. Some tuners even have cold weather and hot weather tunes. Having the ability to monitor the A/F all the time gives a nice safety aspect because now you know what is happening everytime you drive no matter what the conditions are outside. If you could collect enough data throughout the changing seasons you could have just one tune written that could compensate for all temperatures and give you peak performance with a good consistant safety margin. With dyno tuning it's kind of hard to get a perfect all weather tune unless you go to the dyno with every 10-20degree change to have the program tweeked a little to make sure in can compensate for the changes. I'm certainly not saying theres anything wrong with dyno tuning, because you need the dyno to help optimize the horsepower and for bragging rights, I'm just saying that the possibilities for tuning have dramatically increased with the combined use of wide band A/F and conventional datalogging. If they just had a good way to measure hp without going to the dyno we would be set...I don't think the Escort G-Tech meter is good enough, but if it was or somebody made one that worked well you would never have to visit the dyno.

I see a lot of people like the digital output of the AEM over the WBC, but I personally like the mechanical type display of a gage with a needle. One because it matches my other Autometer gauges, and two because I think it easier to see with a quick glance of the eye while driving.


Ya see, guys, THIS IS HOW IT'S DONE!! :tu: I think he's da smartest guy of dis whole bunch, I do. :tongue:

NOW that I know it has other fucntions, and can be programmed to be USEFUL, now it's no longer classed with boar hog tits. :p But I would still prefer to see the output of a wideband being input into something that will actually use the data to control the engine immediately.

Oh, yeah, and I love yer sense of ergonomics: numbers are way too slow for the human eye to interpret, a needle (or a graphical display) is best, with a nice idiot light to complete the job. :tu:

[Tex Arcana]

THats just classic Tex - we may need a special tex smiley like :ron:

Doug

how 'bout a guy in a cowboy hat, with the name "Tex" under it, dousing a computer with gasoline and setting it on fire?? :d

[03LightningRocks]

how 'bout a guy in a cowboy hat, with the name "Tex" under it, dousing a computer with gasoline and setting it on fire?? :d

I think an assclown smilie would be more appropriate...:tu:

[Silver_2000]

NOW that I know it has other fucntions, and can be programmed to be USEFUL, now it's no longer classed with boar hog tits. :p But I would still prefer to see the output of a wideband being input into something that will actually use the data to control the engine immediately.


Most of the time the Computer is striving for 14.7/1 af not the 12/1 you are looking for - So the Stock o2 sensors do what you are talking about BUT They are only used when not at WOT

Doug

[Tex Arcana]

I think an assclown smilie would be more appropriate...:tu:

And yo momma wears army boots... :tongue::d

[DamonH]

I was trying to think of what some other good data to monitor would be that you don't get from the ECM. Boost pressure is obviously a good one. Let me think:

Ambient air pressure? (to determine how much air density throws off the MAF reading)
Humidy? (I think this is a significant factor in performance but it would be nice to know some solid data in real world application)
^^These two aren't great examples because they remain fairly constant, I was just trying to brainstorm.

Exhaust gas temerature
Cylinder head temperature (is there already a sensor for this? The combination of this with the EGT can give you an indication of pre-detonation before it gets bad enough to be audible)
Fuel pressure (but if this is off you have a problem, it shouldn't vary, a gauge should be good enough without monitoring)

These are all reasons I went with the Zeitronix wide band. It pretty much already comes setup to monitor most of what you mentioned, and is VERY competitively priced. It'll monitor boost, EGT, wideband O2, TPS, or whatever else you configure. Doesn't have the analog gauge, but I'm sure you could wire one up. One of these days I'll actually get around to installing mine. :evil

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm

-Damon

[Mark #2]

Some 2nd gear data this morning on the way to work.

[ThunderBolt]

I received mine yesterday. :D How do you transfer the data into a file?

[Mark #2]

I received mine yesterday. :D How do you transfer the data into a file?

I am recording directly into the computer at this time.
Record log file
Close log file(it will ask for a name to save it as a .djl file)
Export data to a text file.
Copy the text file into Excel.
Mark

[ThunderBolt]

Thanks.