Kenne Bell first mod question

[Lyfisin]

In another thread, I saw this comment from Rocks, and agreed to by BCLightning and it raised more noob questions from me.


Yep.....If I where starting all over again today, with a stock truck, my first mod would be a Kenne Bell. Then I would do helper mods for that level of power. The built motor would still be my last mod though.Rocks

Here's some comments from Terry who answered more of my noob questions when I asked him recently about the KB and my concern for blowing up my engine.


The KB is a very safe blower, safer than stock I would say. It absolutely needs a dyno tune. Above 450hp I would do a MAF and fuel injectors also for insurance. They have plenty of low end grunt. A stock truck makes about 350rwhp, pulley and chip is about 385-395, a KB will make all you dare to up to 500 on a stock block. I would keep it around 440 450 for reliablility.

Without ever having a dyno on my truck, Terry estimated that the HP gain from the chip/pulley/filter I have was between 35 and 45HP and that at 440-450 from a KB that would be an additional 45-55HP and keep the tune safe for the stock block.

So I guess what I don't understand is, if the KB has so much potential, why would the built motor be at the end of a mod list instead of near the beginning, Terry's comments indicate there's enough ability in just the KB to blow up the stock motor.

I think...

Someone try and help me out here.

[03LightningRocks]

In another thread, I saw this comment from Rocks, and agreed to by BCLightning and it raised more noob questions from me.



Here's some comments from Terry who answered more of my noob questions when I asked him recently about the KB and my concern for blowing up my engine.



Without ever having a dyno on my truck, Terry estimated that the HP gain from the chip/pulley/filter I have was between 35 and 45HP and that at 440-450 from a KB that would be an additional 45-55HP and keep the tune safe for the stock block.

So I guess what I don't understand is, if the KB has so much potential, why would the built motor be at the end of a mod list instead of near the beginning, Terry's comments indicate there's enough ability in just the KB to blow up the stock motor.

I think...

Someone try and help me out here.


A built motor is a very large expense...three times that of the KB....at the least. Most folks try to see how far they can take their stock motor and many have had very good succeaa doing it. Mark#2 for instance.

If you have the money...shoot...go for it. But a built motor in itself is not going to do alot for you in the power department. If you get real agressive cams and port the heads/lower intake...maybe 40-60 HP. You will still need the KB to utilize a built motor. Putting a stock eaton on a built motor is like dressing up a pig and taking him to church.


Rocks:D

[TXBLU]

A built motor is a very large expense...three times that of the KB....at the least. Most folks try to see how far they can take their stock motor and many have had very good succeaa doing it. Mark#2 for instance.

If you have the money...shoot...go for it. But a built motor in itself is not going to do alot for you in the power department. If you get real agressive cams and port the heads/lower intake...maybe 40-60 HP. You will still need the KB to utilize a built motor. Putting a stock eaton on a built motor is like dressing up a pig and taking him to church.


Rocks:D

I aggree. I am contemplating a crank/rods/pistons implant for my motor, just so I have a good foundation for a KB, and a few other mods to get me to a solid 450-470 rwhp. I think it's just the safer way to go. It is true that with a conservative drive ratio and a tune by someone that realy knows his stuff (Terry), a stock motor can live safely with a KB on it, but you won't be able to realize the potential of the blower. Oh, yeah, I plan to upgrade the tranny before adding the ponies!:D

[BC Lightning]

The problem with Kenne Bell, turbo, N2O, even just chip and small mods is someone pushing the line too far, eventually you will cross that line and blow the motor. A kenne Bell, LT's, fuel system, and good tune will give some people more power than the will ever actually need on the streets. With a more efficient blower, fuel delivery and bigger pipes for the exhaust, It will be safe, however the need to go a little faster, a little faster, a little faster then it will blow. Like rocks said Kenne Bell, full exhaust, fuel system with new pumps and injectors will get you 450+ hp. and still be way less than a built long block.

Like I said before hind sight is 20/20 and if I had to do it again I would do it in this order

1. HREs 2. Brembo Brakes 3. Turbo/Kenne Bell 4. Full Exhaust 5. Fuel System 6. Tranny w/ stall .......................... 20. Built Motor

Just my advice to people new too modding, instead of spending little at a time save a little at a time and get a big power adder

My .02
Michael

[03LightningRocks]

The truth is, most folks are happy with a truck that will do low 12's or high elevens. Not everyone wants to run their truck down the track at high 10 level speeds. Mark #2 is right now running the second fastest truck in our club with a STOCK motor. I truly believe that mid elevens can be run all damn day long on a stock block with the proper tune and fuel.

Any faster than that and it's cage time. Believe me or not, I am telling you, a cage is only cool at the track. It sucks for a daily driver. Faster than 11.00 and it's after market axle time. Most folks don't want to do this track butchering to their truck. So....the point is....why do a built motor when you can use a stock block and be faster than 99% of the vehicles on the street, while running mid elevens?

A built motor is really only necessary if you plan to go ape sh!t and make your truck a strip machine.

Hows this for a thought? You can buy 3 stock long blocks for the same it costs for one built motor. Stock blocks are now running mid and low elevens like it is no thang. Tuning has improved drastically over the past couple years. Safer tunes can be had now than even a year ago and I believe is contributing to lower motor failures. Let's face it...our tuners are the ones that where blasting holes in our blocks. The learning curve looks to be at a good spot right now. I think they have finally figured out what they are doing:D .

Rocks:beer:

[Mark #2]

Mark #2 is right now running the second fastest truck in our club with a STOCK motor. I truly believe that mid elevens can be run all damn day long on a stock block with the proper tune and fuel.
Rocks:beer:
I don't know about all day, but I'm at 2 years now.
Limited time I am sure on this stock block.;)
Rocks, where were you tonight? and thanks for the props in some of your recent posts.
Mark

[BC Lightning]

The truth is, most folks are happy with a truck that will do low 12's or high elevens. Not everyone wants to run their truck down the track at high 10 level speeds. Mark #2 is right now running the second fastest truck in our club with a STOCK motor. I truly believe that mid elevens can be run all damn day long on a stock block with the proper tune and fuel.

Any faster than that and it's cage time. Believe me or not, I am telling you, a cage is only cool at the track. It sucks for a daily driver. Faster than 11.00 and it's after market axle time. Most folks don't want to do this track butchering to their truck. So....the point is....why do a built motor when you can use a stock block and be faster than 99% of the vehicles on the street, while running mid elevens?

A built motor is really only necessary if you plan to go ape sh!t and make your truck a strip machine.

Hows this for a thought? You can buy 3 stock long blocks for the same it costs for one built motor. Stock blocks are now running mid and low elevens like it is no thang. Tuning has improved drastically over the past couple years. Safer tunes can be had now than even a year ago and I believe is contributing to lower motor failures. Let's face it...our tuners are the ones that where blasting holes in our blocks. The learning curve looks to be at a good spot right now. I think they have finally figured out what they are doing:D .

Rocks:beer:

My goal is to hit low 10's if not faster with a 76mm turbo. I have thought about going a twin 72mm route, but I think I will lose 99.99% of streetable power since they will spool up too quick. I could go the 82mm route, but it would take way too much time to spool up to the amount of boost I want to run, espically since our stall converters are 2400-2600 and not a 4500-4800. So with a 76mm turbo I should be able to have 700-850 hp. on my daily driver. Again, on my daily driver. I will never put a cage in mine. I'll do everything up to that, stage 3 cams, ported heads, new rear end, maybe even mini tub it to fit a bigger slick, and at that point I'll put wider after market wheels and replace the chrome 04's I have now. maybe a 22" tall x 12" wide wheels, bling bling and alot of meat. But I will always leave it in Street form with the tailgate on, bed cover on, sway bars on, seats in, etc.

I'm in a situation where I'm saving to get the big power adder, instead of saving at the beginning not buying the "little" mod's and having the Big power adder. I wish I had listened to people like Terry and Rock's and waited to start modding. Like rock's said some like the mid-low 12's. Me, I want my daily driver running low 10's if not faster.

[L8 APEX]

A turbo can never spool too fast:rolleyes: .

[Mark #2]

. Me, I want my daily driver running low 10's if not faster.
Not in my lifetime, just IMHO, as I am slowly working towards the 10s.
Until you have a run a low 11 you have no idea how fast that really is:d

[BC Lightning]

Not in my lifetime, just IMHO, as I am slowly working towards the 10s.
Until you have a run a low 11 you have no idea how fast that really is:d

I have raced my buddies 67 camaro that runs 5.80's in the 1/8th, spraying a 250 shot out of the hole, I haven't run a 11 pass in my truck yet, but it doesn't mean I haven't driven or been in cars that haven't :rolleyes:

[L8 APEX]

And how it that 67 Camaro as a daily driver. Mark is talking about how fast a 10 is in a 5K lb pickup truck. It is kind of like the opposite which would be a 10second pass in a pro mod car that normally runs 6's.
It is a lot more difficult to operate a daily driver truck to 10's. vs a caged 67 Camaro designed for nothing but drags. Maybe Rocks will let you make a pass in his truck and give you a taste for it.

I compare it to going down a large hill in a shopping basket, vs a go cart. You have a lot less control in a truck than a car of any kind.

[True Blue Aggie]

Mike...
Doesn't matter how fast your truck is......you continue to sleep on the starting line.......I will still beat you.:evil :evil :evil

[Mark #2]

I have raced my buddies 67 camaro that runs 5.80's in the 1/8th, spraying a 250 shot out of the hole, I haven't run a 11 pass in my truck yet, but it doesn't mean I haven't driven or been in cars that haven't :rolleyes:

My point is that low 10s is unlikely in a daily driver Lightning.
I raced bikes for a number of years and it is different in a 5000 lb truck versus something else.
Good luck, but low 11s in these trucks is hauling IMHO.

Mark

[jcblack]

Mark #2 is right now running the second fastest truck in our club with a STOCK motor.

Sorry Rocks, but I have to correct you. Dont forget about Thogg. Mark#2 is the 3rd fastest.

[Mark #2]

Sorry Rocks, but I have to correct you. Dont forget about Thogg. Mark#2 is the 3rd fastest.

I think Rocks was talking Gen2 stuff with the built motor questions.
I'll claim the fastest truck in the club that drives to the track, though I might need a trailer to get it home soon.

Mark

[02BOLT]

Sorry Rocks, but I have to correct you. Dont forget about Thogg. Mark#2 is the 3rd fastest.

Actually, Bad Jake, I think Ron was saying that Mark#2 was the fastest truck in the club with a STOCK longblock. I'm pretty sure THogg's motor is far from stock.;)

[L8 APEX]

If we had a "breaks the fastest" Hogg would be #1 for sure:D

[jcblack]

Actually, Bad Jake, I think Ron was saying that Mark#2 was the fastest truck in the club with a STOCK longblock. I'm pretty sure THogg's motor is far from stock.;)

Actually what he said is that Mark #2 has the 2nd fastest in the club and is on the stock motor. He didnt say the fastest in the club with the stock motor, which I know he is. If he was the second fastest on a stock block, then who is first? Go back and read it all again and then come talk to me numb nuts:D .

P.S. I know that Thogg is not stock:tu:

[03LightningRocks]

Sorry Rocks, but I have to correct you. Dont forget about Thogg. Mark#2 is the 3rd fastest.

are you trying to mess up his game??? :cool:

[03LightningRocks]

Has anyone here ever thought about why our friend doesn't post his times.....THIMK People...THIMK:cool:

[03LightningRocks]

"Meanwhile...Back at the Ranch."


A Kenne Bell blower will give you a boatload of HP...even without the 5K in helper mods. Best bang for the buck after pully/chip/filter...LOL.


Rocks

[jcblack]

are you trying to mess up his game??? :cool:

No, I was just givin a brotha his props.

[WA 2 FST]

"Meanwhile...Back at the Ranch."


A Kenne Bell blower will give you a boatload of HP...even without the 5K in helper mods. Best bang for the buck after pully/chip/filter...LOL.


Rocks

This is exactly the reason I haven't done all/most of the "helper mods". Quite frankly, if tuned correctly, a KB at 450rwhp will be safer than an Eaton M112 at 450rwhp. As Rocks and BCLightning have stated several times, it has all to do with blower efficiency, inlet air temps into the manifold, etc. The KB doesn't have to spin nearly as hard (thus creating less heat and pumping losses) as the Eaton to push the same amount of air. Plus, in order to continually increase its power potential, you need to run more mods for the Eaton ... and its still playing catch-up.

Certainly the KB is capable of crazy power, but if you stay conservative, I think you could make 450rwhp safely (motor-wise) with nothing more than an air intake and the KB blower. Cat-back exhaust would be for sound only. Some may feel like long tubes would be necessary, and I have no doubt they would be beneficial, but I'm not sure they are necessary with to safely reach the 450rwhp power level.

I would be more concerned with the transmission at that power level than the motor anyway. I'm not sure I'll ever do at KB (or the to-be-released-tomorrow ;) , Whipple), but that would be my next mod and all I've got is chip/pulley/filter.

[Lyfisin]

Thanks for all the great replies. I figured "money" was the main answer.

[03LightningRocks]

No, I was just givin a brotha his props.

I hear ya...and he deserves it too. Sometimes I not so sure he wants it online though...;) . We might have just cost him a race with a sucker...:rll: .

:tu: :beer:

[03LightningRocks]

This is exactly the reason I haven't done all/most of the "helper mods". Quite frankly, if tuned correctly, a KB at 450rwhp will be safer than an Eaton M112 at 450rwhp. As Rocks and BCLightning have stated several times, it has all to do with blower efficiency, inlet air temps into the manifold, etc. The KB doesn't have to spin nearly as hard (thus creating less heat and pumping losses) as the Eaton to push the same amount of air. Plus, in order to continually increase its power potential, you need to run more mods for the Eaton ... and its still playing catch-up.

Certainly the KB is capable of crazy power, but if you stay conservative, I think you could make 450rwhp safely (motor-wise) with nothing more than an air intake and the KB blower. Cat-back exhaust would be for sound only. Some may feel like long tubes would be necessary, and I have no doubt they would be beneficial, but I'm not sure they are necessary with to safely reach the 450rwhp power level.

I would be more concerned with the transmission at that power level than the motor anyway. I'm not sure I'll ever do at KB (or the to-be-released-tomorrow ;) , Whipple), but that would be my next mod and all I've got is chip/pulley/filter.


Exactly Correct...IMHO...:beer:

[BC Lightning]

My point is that low 10s is unlikely in a daily driver Lightning.
I raced bikes for a number of years and it is different in a 5000 lb truck versus something else.
Good luck, but low 11s in these trucks is hauling IMHO.

Mark

Maybe it is a long shot, espically sice I want to keep it in street form, meaning I want to drive it to the track, put slicks on, run a 10 sec pass, put the street tires back on and go home with minimal suspension upgrades, i.e. 4-Link. Maybe I can't, but that is my goal. Thats part of the reasoning of wanting a turbo because the supercharger (twin screw or roots style) would hit its max before I turbo would. Taking my own advice the next power adder mod I get will be a turbo. I want to see what I can get before I blow the stock block.



Exactly Correct...IMHO...:beer:

Wes is right on the money, few posts, but well written :tu: A KB would be the best bang for your buck and get you to 450 hp cheaper than all the little mods, and would be safer too.

[02BOLT]

Actually what he said is that Mark #2 has the 2nd fastest in the club and is on the stock motor. He didnt say the fastest in the club with the stock motor, which I know he is. If he was the second fastest on a stock block, then who is first? Go back and read it all again and then come talk to me numb nuts:D .

P.S. I know that Thogg is not stock:tu:

Why you gotta get all nasty cool breeze? Ron's post stated that Mark had the 2nd fastest truck in the club and with an EMPHASIS on the STOCK longblock. I was simply making the point that THogg's truck was far from stock. Maybe I misinterpreted it, but if YOU re-read it, then you'll see where I was coming from.......:d

[02BOLT]

This is exactly the reason I haven't done all/most of the "helper mods". Quite frankly, if tuned correctly, a KB at 450rwhp will be safer than an Eaton M112 at 450rwhp. As Rocks and BCLightning have stated several times, it has all to do with blower efficiency, inlet air temps into the manifold, etc. The KB doesn't have to spin nearly as hard (thus creating less heat and pumping losses) as the Eaton to push the same amount of air. Plus, in order to continually increase its power potential, you need to run more mods for the Eaton ... and its still playing catch-up.

Certainly the KB is capable of crazy power, but if you stay conservative, I think you could make 450rwhp safely (motor-wise) with nothing more than an air intake and the KB blower. Cat-back exhaust would be for sound only. Some may feel like long tubes would be necessary, and I have no doubt they would be beneficial, but I'm not sure they are necessary with to safely reach the 450rwhp power level.

I would be more concerned with the transmission at that power level than the motor anyway. I'm not sure I'll ever do at KB (or the to-be-released-tomorrow ;) , Whipple), but that would be my next mod and all I've got is chip/pulley/filter.

Right on Wes! That is exactly why I put the KB on my truck back in the day. Tuned and treated correctly, a KB is an AWESOME mod that brings more potential, and even better; far superior efficiency when compared to the factory Eaton. The biggest challenge with the KB on a stock motor is resisiting the temptation to go just "a little bit faster", but as Mark #2 has exemplified, it is very "do-able".:tu:

IMO, in terms of ease of installation, and tunability, that blower absolutely rocks on these trucks.:bows

[jcblack]

Why you gotta get all nasty cool breeze? Ron's post stated that Mark had the 2nd fastest truck in the club and with an EMPHASIS on the STOCK longblock. I was simply making the point that THogg's truck was far from stock. Maybe I misinterpreted it, but if YOU re-read it, then you'll see where I was coming from.......:d

I did re-read what you said cool breeze. I wasnt being nasty, just lettin you know what the deal was.:tu: From now on out, never try to correct me. J/K:D

[Mark #2]

Right on Wes! That is exactly why I put the KB on my truck back in the day. Tuned and treated correctly, a KB is an AWESOME mod that brings more potential, and even better; far superior efficiency when compared to the factory Eaton. The biggest challenge with the KB on a stock motor is resisiting the temptation to go just "a little bit faster", but as Mark #2 has exemplified, it is very "do-able".:tu:

IMO, in terms of ease of installation, and tunability, that blower absolutely rocks on these trucks.:bows

Thanks and I have continued to turn up the boost over the past 2 years and now I am well into the kill zone. You can't resist.
Frank gave me confidence, but now he has blown too.
What to do, what to do.

[Beaudee]

"Meanwhile...Back at the Ranch."


A Kenne Bell blower will give you a boatload of HP...even without the 5K in helper mods. Best bang for the buck after pully/chip/filter...LOL.


Rocks What part# is best for our trucks,gen 2 that is.Who has the best price?Pics or links to site.Do they whine like the stock blower?

[Mark #2]

What part# is best for our trucks,gen 2 that is.Who has the best price?Pics or links to site.Do they whine like the stock blower?
http://kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/lighting54/lighting54.htm

[99WhiteBeast]

Thanks and I have continued to turn up the boost over the past 2 years and now I am well into the kill zone. You can't resist.
Frank gave me confidence, but now he has blown too.
What to do, what to do.

Go out with a bang at the Fall Classic- you know you want a built block

[Lyfisin]

I bet he wants to win more. :)

[1BCLIGHTNINGKLR]

I have raced my buddies 67 camaro that runs 5.80's in the 1/8th, spraying a 250 shot out of the hole, I haven't run a 11 pass in my truck yet, but it doesn't mean I haven't driven or been in cars that haven't :rolleyes:

Michael... I KNOW your not talking about Walker since his hasn't been that fast...OR Jordans camaro which is a 68 just in case you try and sneak one by us. Nice try buck-o please pull thru...

All i smell is...BULL **** :banana: :nana2 :d :Bullshit :bs :tu:

[Sixpipes]

Michael... I KNOW your not talking about Walker since his hasn't been that fast...OR Jordans camaro which is a 68 just in case you try and sneak one by us. Nice try buck-o please pull thru...

All i smell is...BULL **** :banana: :nana2 :d :Bullshit :bs :tu:

This guy is the best argument against ID I have heard in some time. :evil

[BC Lightning]

Michael... I KNOW your not talking about Walker since his hasn't been that fast...OR Jordans camaro which is a 68 just in case you try and sneak one by us. Nice try buck-o please pull thru...

All i smell is...BULL **** :banana: :nana2 :d :Bullshit :bs :tu:

I don't know who you are? I like how you thik this is DFWstangs. :rolleyes:

No I'm not talking about Lil B's 67 camaro or Jordan's 68. My buddy Blake Walker, who I played baseball with at DBU, has a 67 camaro that runs out at Denton. He also has a 55 and 57 Belair.

Walkers car will be that fast as soon as it gets put back together. I believe the motor is still at Tony's shop being built and the car should be back from being tubbed and adding bars from a 6 point cage to a 10 pt.

When you posted earlier about running me are you sure it wasn't Luis? Just curious since I haven't street raced in a long while. The only people with LS1's that I know of are Jake - Z28, Kyle - WS.6 (who's car is totaled now), Brian WS.6 , Frank - Firehawk, Adam - SS, Robert - Z28 :confused:

[03LightningRocks]

Go out with a bang at the Fall Classic- you know you want a built block


OH HELL YA!!!! I'm with Steve.....you can even borrow my 2.5 pulley :nana2 :nana2 :nana2 :nana2

[jcblack]

Michael... I KNOW your not talking about Walker since his hasn't been that fast...OR Jordans camaro which is a 68 just in case you try and sneak one by us. Nice try buck-o please pull thru...

All i smell is...BULL **** :banana: :nana2 :d :Bullshit :bs :tu:

I know you didnt join the board to talk noise. If so I think that you should be :banned .

[03BCLIGHTNING]

NA SON THAT WASNT ME TALKING, I ALREADY RAN YOU CUZ WE COULD NEVER SEEM TO CATCH EACH OTHER, IT WAS ALL TALK FOR AWHILE THEN WHEN WE DID YOU GOT ME BY HALF A TRUCK! WE ALREADY SETTLED THAT, THAT WAS WITH-OUT SPRAY :evil SO I WOULD SAY RUN ME AGAIN BUT IM GETTING RID OF IT! :tu:

[03LightningRocks]

NA SON THAT WASNT ME TALKING, I ALREADY RAN YOU CUZ WE COULD NEVER SEEM TO CATCH EACH OTHER, IT WAS ALL TALK FOR AWHILE THEN WHEN WE DID YOU GOT ME BY HALF A TRUCK! WE ALREADY SETTLED THAT, THAT WAS WITH-OUT SPRAY :evil SO I WOULD SAY RUN ME AGAIN BUT IM GETTING RID OF IT! :tu:


WTF????????? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[BC Lightning]

NA SON THAT WASNT ME TALKING, I ALREADY RAN YOU CUZ WE COULD NEVER SEEM TO CATCH EACH OTHER, IT WAS ALL TALK FOR AWHILE THEN WHEN WE DID YOU GOT ME BY HALF A TRUCK! WE ALREADY SETTLED THAT, THAT WAS WITH-OUT SPRAY :evil SO I WOULD SAY RUN ME AGAIN BUT IM GETTING RID OF IT! :tu:

I wasn't saying you were the one talking, just asked if it was you that he raced, because I really have drawn a blank on an LS-1 caged car I have raced :confused: .

Keep your truck until after the Fall Classic so we can run again :evil

[03BCLIGHTNING]

OH NA IT WASNT ME! YEA AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE TO RACE U AGAIN AND SEE WHAT UR TRUCK REALLY DOES WHEN IT HAS TO FETCH CUZ OUT THE WHOLE IT WAS ALL ME:banana: BUT I CANT THERE IS A GUY WAITING FOR THE L! MAYBE LATER WHEN I GET ANOTHER ONE I MIGHT BE UP FOR IT THATS IF U STILL HAVE YOURS! :tu:

[03BCLIGHTNING]

IF YOU DONT HAVE IT, MAYBE LATER ILL HAVE SOMETHING FOR THE VETTE CUZ I KNOW THAT U WILL END GETTING THAT NEW Z06, JUST SOME FRIENDLY RACING :beer: DONT THINK THAT IM TALKIN **** ABOUT YOU CUZ I HAVE ALWAYS BACKED YOU UP ON EVERYTHING AND YOU KNOW THAT, IM JUST SAYING, MAYBE WE CAN RACE SOMEOTHER TIME AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS:tu: YOU SHOULD FIND OUT WHO THAT OTHER GUY IS :confused:

[03BCLIGHTNING]

hey bic why dont you come out to FAA tonight:evil i guess we can get one more in before it goes tommorow:tu: no bottle!!

[PoorSvtman]

WTF????????? :confused: :confused: :confused:


must be that oak cliff gangsta talk.....

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/poorsvtman/Stuff/ice.jpg
Word to your mom!

[99WhiteBeast]

hey bic why dont you come out to FAA tonight:evil i guess we can get one more in before it goes tommorow:tu: no bottle!!


How about Kennedale? There will be several Lightnings out there to choose from;)

[03BCLIGHTNING]

yea i guess thats that oakcliff talk :rll: im sorry if us mexicans dont meet your expectations :bows info to you, im not from oakcliff :tu: but i guess every mexican is the same RIGHT? why dont you bring you L next week to FAA or wherever and put you money where your mouth is and run that L of yours for some money... well since im from oakcliff you wouldnt have any problem running for 1000, i mean, i know u cant be POOR!

OAKCLIFF TALK:tu: